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FORUM / RUGBY /  Jake only wants weight...really?... did he say that?

Jake only wants weight...really?... did he say that?

Started by generaltit11 REPLIES247 VIEWS· 12 Feb 2014, 15:50
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GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
12 Feb 2014, 15:50
#1
12 Feb 2014, 15:50#1

Most of these type of comments are based by people that surmise what they suspect or just plain hearsay...hardlly a basis of accurate conclusion...did Jake this ..."No".

 

The problem that bedevils this forum is prejudice and appearance, guess work without knowing the person and just plain vindictiveness or jealously...criticise in the right tone and right spirit objectively once you have the right facts or word by all means but do not put judgement to your limitations or guess work.

 

I believe that Jake has a plan...and we can only guess it and I'm sure Keegan has his respect and might well be engaged in later,different situations.

 

Jake has his strategies and nobody can guess them...I have backed Jake because I think (I do not know and I could well be wrong) he strikes me (and I don't know him) as unconvential and a strategist. What I do know, however he lifted The Brumbies, who were in dire straits to another level but even more than that he was a victim of political and very hypocritical irregularities that occur in this third world banana republic that some of you have left and cry your allegiance safely tucked away in some distant land.

 

The trouble with SA we call the kettle black and I'm ashamed to say it we are (not all) but in the man in the street syndrome a bunch of spineless cowards...that follow trends, political correction that's most often skew. We are a lovely nation but without backbone in the group, popular mass school of thought because options are pretty few and running out. He are herd followers and people pleasers...only because life is stressful to go against the flow and have lost that that spark that questions, not in rebellion but objectively.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
12 Feb 2014, 15:54
#2
12 Feb 2014, 15:54#2
Yes its common knowledge that Jake likes big players.........a good biggen will always beat a good littlelin........was his saying, was it not? 
GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
12 Feb 2014, 16:26
#3
12 Feb 2014, 16:26#3

Common knowledge? Was the WC side in 2007 only made up of heavy weights...sure weight does play a role but the side was made up from his strategy and on the guys selection on merit...each given situation calls for adjustment and re-accessment but I believe that Jake is far less effected by simple evaluation. He goes beyond the conventional trend, and I know from some of your valid comments that you too respect this. Don't let your dislike of Jakes personality sully your objectiveness.

 

Yes, a lot of people don't like Jake because he pisses them off but one you cannot argue with is his results.

 

Yes, he had his failures prior to world cup and so will any coach...it takes time and error to fit a potent side...ol" Mac was a typical example...Kitch (outstanding coach that he was) inherited Macs groundwork...this doesn't come from me as I certainly am not an expert as most of you can fathom , but I've heard guys say this ( guys like Muller and Thomson) so I must respect that._

 

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
12 Feb 2014, 16:37
#4
12 Feb 2014, 16:37#4
 Yes Jake played a big lad like Schalk at 6.......what has my dislike of Jake got to do with him preferring big players.......I for one fully agree with him on this.....the game has moved on, the game requires big talented players to breach tight defensive patterns........30% of your time is spent beating the opposition through skill, 70% of the time requires you to physically impose yourself......you cant do that as a lightweight
GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
12 Feb 2014, 17:11
#5
12 Feb 2014, 17:11#5

 Sure...I think you are spot on this but I don't think this will be the only criteria or basis of selection. I just wish we had Jake as a Springbok coach again. I am NOT totally against HM as I do respect him as good conventional coach that can bring a francise like the Bulls to the front but something more is required in WC. All the coaches that have won world cups have been good...think about that!

 

Rugby is a very strange game that is hard to master, the only country today that frustrates us all is the balanced AB's (the real champions if we are entirely honest) the dour convential English and the lottery prone French. I thought Wales would be there today after 2011 and with so many young players but then again...this confirms the strangeness...last years 6N with Ireland and France nearly becoming wooden-spooners proves the strangeness.  

 

Game plan (backed by skilled and competent players) is the most important and innovation...the side that can do this well will win despite faulty decisions by referrees.

 

There are a lot of possibilities that can happen in, do or die tournements like the WC...cleverly the Boks managed 2 in a shorter span of time but to be honest the AB's lead us by a country mile overall, the French on the otherhand have been the most unluckiest...giant killers in finals...in 2015 if I get 6-1 on the books I will become a decandent prospect in gambling...if they lose the 6N all the better...odds will be better but in French rugby knowing their set to win a world stage must cause frustration...they definitely must be the one to beat in 2015.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
12 Feb 2014, 17:33
#6
12 Feb 2014, 17:33#6
I dont rate Jake over Meyer at all.....I was never a fan of Jake, but like players, coaches learn from their mistakes and I think Jake is a better coach now than he used to be with the Boks. However keeping his gob shut is one think Jake has not learnt and that irritates me........he mouthed off against Ireland only to land up with egg on his face after the Irish put one over the Boks.......then again last year he did the same to the Stormers, leading to his Brumbies taking a hit.

Jake was so poor leading into that WC, that his sacking was on the cards.......a great squad, easier route to the final and another international coach in Eddie Jones saved Jake's reputation.


I dont buy into the whole WC thing, its one tournament every 4 years......winning consistently throughout the year and over the years is the real measure and why the AB's are number 1
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,297 posts
12 Feb 2014, 17:43
#7
12 Feb 2014, 17:43#7
Read White's biography or quotes in the media- like Meyer he does "prefer" bigger players. It is common knowledge to those with common sense.

Although you have misquouted him and everyone else saying that he "only" wants big players regardless of skill.

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3556_3330039,00.html
White's "preference" for big strong players is no secret and he believes that the player depth in English rugby would enable him to produce a team to match the size and dynamism of any other in world rugby.



http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3556_3330039,00.html
It was also highly debatable that the Brumbies would provide the raw materials that it was assumed White needed for success – namely big strong forwards and physical players who could tackle opponents to a standstill.

Well, White has emphatically disproved any negative theories, and at the Brumbies he has also proved that the ingredients mentioned above don’t necessarily come only from raw materials and talent. It can also be coached."


GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
12 Feb 2014, 18:04
#8
12 Feb 2014, 18:04#8
 OK that's your take on Jake but how do you explain the revival of the Brumbies...was that a flash in the pan or was it that the men from Canberra had prior to Jakes arrival had assistant coach, over-the-hill Laurie that was more at home surfing Bondi beach in the other state, NSW, off Sydney with respect to the now present coach Stephen Larkin...lolz
GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
12 Feb 2014, 18:28
#9
12 Feb 2014, 18:28#9

 ...and I'm not disputing bulk...it is nonsense to dispute the importance of that but that is not the ONLY criteria surely...at least as far as Jake is concerned or any other coach in the past, surely ??? Is he in love with weight? I really do not honestly believe this...only time will tell! I think Jake sees beyond this.


But, merit lies further than this...in your fathers' day was Tommy Bedford a mistake @ no 8...with the heavier  Frik Du Preez, Jan Ellis and Piet Greyling? OK the modern game has changed but not in the context of what the player can do if the balance is maintained with the strategical game plan?


Keegan is underweight but his usefulness if employed correctly offsets this surely?


I'm not arguing just raising a question that all you "experts" can solve!...lolz. Goodbye!



GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
12 Feb 2014, 18:45
#10
12 Feb 2014, 18:45#10
Having said this I'm all for loosies like Willem Alberts...he certainly is not a sloth as my friend Ol' Mike calls him ...that's ridiculous...one of the best ball carriers in the game today apart from Kieran and Sergio. But Keegan can be slotted in every now and again at a change or call in strategy...a game plan must be adaptable when conditions call for it.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
12 Feb 2014, 18:47
#11
12 Feb 2014, 18:47#11
No, as I have said, Jake has learnt as a coach and is a better coach these days.......what Jake showed with the Brumbies is that there is merit in investing in young players and it would be handy if Meyer would take note.

Jake has already make great calls in selecting youngsters like v/Tonder, Fisher, Williams, Esterhuizen, Sithole, Swiel, Zeilinga, Ungerer , du Toit (prop), Oosthuizen, Peet Marais, Mtembu and Lewies in the Sharks squad.

You cant begin to compare the players back then to the massive athletes of today.......Frik was a legend of a lock.......he was 6'3 and weighed 99kg.......the size of a modern day centre!!
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,297 posts
12 Feb 2014, 23:48
#12
12 Feb 2014, 23:48#12
 sebastienchabal

Article published today, a few hours ago....http://www.supersport.com/rugby/super-rugby/news/140212/Sharks_being_preemptive_on_Bulls


"We will name the team on Thursday,” he said.

White made no attempt at the briefing to deny that he is a coach who prefers bigger players, and while Jacques Botes, a quintessential “fetching” loose-forward in physical stature, was one of the players presented to the media on Wednesday, it would be surprising if either he or former captain Keegan Daniel was part of the starting mix for Saturday.


Against the Bulls, who make no secret of the importance they attach to physically subduing their opponents, it would be a shock if White did not go for the biggest back-row available to him.

And with all the players fit and available for selection, that should mean that Willem Alberts will pack down No 8 with Jean Deysel and Marcell Coetzee on the flanks.


People say I don’t like small players, but David Pocock isn’t big, and he was a big part of my Brumbies team in my first year. George Smith isn’t big either. 


I think though that every coach would opt for size if there were talented big players available to them. 

"As Doc Craven used to say, a good big one is always better than a good small one.”






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