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FORUM / RUGBY /  James Dalton states the obvious about Mitchell's Bools

James Dalton states the obvious about Mitchell's Bools

Started by Mozart11 REPLIES818 VIEWS· 20 Jul 2018, 04:53
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 Jul 2018, 04:53
#1
20 Jul 2018, 04:53#1
Springbok hooker James Dalton has laid into the Bulls after a woeful 2018 Super Rugby season which saw the Pretoria-based side finish bottom of the South African Conference. READ: Why the unhealthy obsession with John Mitchell? Dalton, who played 41 Tests for the Springboks, didn't hold back when asked for his views on the current Bulls side under coach John Mitchell. Question: John Mitchell’s Super rugby record reads as follows: 37% at Western Force (5 seasons), 19% with Lions (2 seasons) and 37.5% at the Bulls (1 season). Thoughts? Dalton: The statistics certainly show that those are the facts. Yes, I think we are obsessed. We do certainly get obsessed with All Black rugby, New Zealand Rugby... their dominance, their skill levels, how much better they are than South African rugby players... The Bulls have been absolutely woeful this season. And what concerns me about the Sharks, Stormers and Bulls is their inability to perform consistently week in and week out. The skill level of our top players - who are professionals training every single day, twice a day, five days a week - is absolutely pathetic. It’s absolutely laughable.” Question: Did you expect more of John Mitchell’s Bulls this season? Dalton: Certainly I did. Everybody sang their praises. But again, inconsistent, one game good, one game bad... and totally one-dimensional. They don’t have the ability to vary a game plan. They play one type of game plan under Mitchell. We saw some really good backline play from Jesse Kriel and Handre Pollard, but that also died a quick death. It became that short-ball, one play at a time, taking it up, nothing happens, slow ball, a kicking game that they can’t even play. And then this lineout drive five or 10m metres from the opponents’ tryline... numerous times it didn’t work for them, but they carried on and on and on with it. There wasn’t even a variation on it.” Question: On Mitchell’s notion that they need better players? Dalton: I actually can’t believe that comment, that a coach after a bad season blames the quality of the players. He is responsible for it. Why does he not refund his salary and rather resign if he’s saying the players are not good enough? It’s unacceptable, yes I do believe that our skills level at time is inconsistent. However, it comes down to the coaches... what they instil in the players. Their game plans, their ability to amend their game plans, and their team selections. LISTEN: Click to hear James Dalton's full interview The Bulls had their worst Super 15 season ever in 2018, winning just six of 16 matches to finish bottom of the South African Conference and 12th in the Overall standings. In the five previous editions of Super Rugby in the current 15-team format, the Bulls won the following number of matches in the regular season: 2011 - 10 2012 - 10 2013 - 12 2013 - 7 2014 - 7
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 Jul 2018, 04:56
#2
20 Jul 2018, 04:56#2
Stunningly there are those who still believe in this failed coach. What about his Super record can't they understand.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 Jul 2018, 05:08
#3
20 Jul 2018, 05:08#3
And then there's this piece....of course I made these points a long time ago. But posters weren't ready to hear the truth of it. Still this is a fulsome fusillade: Garrin Lambley - Sport24 Editor By hook or by crook, current Bulls coach John Mitchell has escaped criticism for the majority of his coaching career. Until now. In much the same manner as the All Blacks who lead the way in the World Rugby rankings, New Zealand coaches are light-years ahead of the rest of the world when it comes to coaching. The exceptions? Brad Thorn and John Mitchell. READ: Super Rugby is dead - RIP But this column isn't about Thorn's infant coaching career as he finds his feet at the Reds, it's about how Mitchell has found his way into coaching roles in Ireland, England, New Zealand, Australia, South Africa and the USA with limited, to NO success. Don't get me wrong, Mitchell talks a great game, but he's seemingly unable to translate that onto the field of play. After stints as Ireland and England forwards coach in the 1990s, Mitchell took over at the Chiefs between 2000-2001 where the Waikato-based franchise won a mere 3 and 6 (out of 11) matches in Super 12 those seasons, (27% and 55% win rate) respectively, comfortably missing out on the playoffs on both occasions. Mitchell was then handed the All Blacks coaching job where he won 23 of the 28 Tests he was in charge, before being axed after New Zealand's third-place finish at the 2003 Rugby World Cup. Mitchell's next high-profile role was at the Western Force between 2006-2010 where he took charge of the Perth-based side in their maiden Super 14 season (in 2006). The Force won the following number of matches in Mitchell's five years at the club (out of 13 matches): 2006 - 1 (8%) 2007 - 6 (46%) 2008 - 7 (54%) 2009 - 6 (46%) 2010 - 4 (31%) OVERALL: 24/65 or 37% Mitchell was released after the 2010 season and headed to South Africa where he took over as coach at the Lions for two seasons. In 2011 the Lions, now playing in the Super 15, won 3 matches and finished 14th out of the 15 teams competing (19% win rate). In 2012 the Johannesburg-based side fared even worse, winning 3 matches and finishing as wooden-spoonists (again, 19% win rate). In June 2012 Mitchell was suspended after complaints from Lions players regarding the manner in which they were treated, but in November of that year he was found not guilty of the charges and reinstated as head coach. However, a week later Mitchell accepted a role with the Sale Sharks in the UK ... only for Sale to announce Mitchell had returned to South Africa citing "personal reasons" the very next month. Following the 2015 Rugby World Cup, Mitchell was linked to both the vacant Stormers and England jobs, but the Cape side were reportedly warned off appointing Mitchell (rumoured to be by Golden Lions Rugby Union president Kevin de Klerk as well as several players), while Eddie Jones was handed the England role. In January 2016 Mitchell was named head coach of the USA, an appointment which was met with a degree of puzzlement given that Mitchell had stated he was not interested in working for a "minor" side such as Tonga or Scotland (who he had reportedly turned down in 2013). Mitchell's 'stay' in the United States soon led to friction with reports suggesting he refused to relocate to America, preferring to attempt to coach the national team from his home in South Africa, while also refusing to help American rugby coaches develop. Unsurprisingly, Mitchell left after 8 wins from 19 matches (42% win rate) and in May 2017 took over as Blue Bulls Executive of Rugby and Bulls Super Rugby coach. Mitchell's maiden season in Pretoria has been a disaster in terms of results, with the Bulls having won five matches (with two remaining) in the 2018 season. In the previous five Super 15 seasons, the Bulls won the following numbers of matches (out of 16): 2011 - 10 2012 - 10 2013 - 12 2014 - 7 2015 - 7 While there's been widespread talk of an "exciting" new Bulls gameplan under Mitchell, talking doesn't win you matches on the field of play. Just look at the log! Neither does promising to be "better next year" or "building for the future". That's nothing more than a slap in the face to other teams and coaches suggesting they themselves won't improve and will simply sit by idly and wait for the Bulls to play catch-up. Case in point, Scott Robertson, who in his FIRST season as Crusaders coach in 2017 didn't come up with excuses, but rather put an end to a nine-year title drought. What's more, in his second season at the helm, Robertson looks set to successfully defend that title come August. Furthermore, the so-called Loftus 'faithful' haven't bought what Mitchell has been selling with shocking attendances at the Bulls' matches this season, but bizarrely the Blue Bulls Rugby Union appear mesmerised by Mitchell, making signing him up for the long-term a priority. Were the Stormers correct in saying "no thanks" to Mitchell? Is he the sort of coach that at best will deliver a 40%-odd win rate? Is he a first-class talker, but a B-class coach? Your thoughts in an email to mysport@sport24.co.za Garrin Lambley is a very frustrated rugby fan and Editor of Sport24 for his sins...
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AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
20 Jul 2018, 07:30
#4
20 Jul 2018, 07:30#4

Yep, Mitchell is a C+ if given a loaded team. Sort of like Coetzee was at the Stormers for a time. Blaming the players is the waving of a white flag, there is no doubt about that. And I hate this talk of "poor skills". For too long it has been a nice and convenient way of passing the buck onto the grass roots coaching and doing nothing. How mechanically difficult is it to throw a ball? It really isn't. Our players can't see the game in a structured way and can't sum up situations. We were blessed with an era of all time greats that were particularly intelligent, but they are gone now. Can South Africa produce a new generation of intellectually developed individuals? The state of the education system says that is an impossibility. Aside from the odd anomaly; Pollard may be one of such players. Coaches in ZA don't work on teaching their players to see the game tactically. So, when they get confused, they make mistakes. The game is unfolding in fractions of a second and their mind is always lagging a minute behind. How can you sync up? You can't. It gets worse when they are not getting any forward momentum, whether through forward drives or back carries. Many times when our pack was berated, it was because of backs failing to generate enough momentum, which creates stodgy possession. They work in tandem.

New Zealand coaches are not lightyears better. They just do basic things very well. They are logical people. 2009, ZA beat New Zealand in the aerial game. It was the last time we had that dominance from that year until this very second. In 2004 and 2005 our rush defence paralysed their game. They adapted in 2006. Whenever New Zealand have a problem, they look for solutions. They put the right plan in place most often, and even if it isn't the right/best plan or it isn't implemented perfectly, they are so proactive that they can make it work anyway. South Africans will complain that grassroots coaching is a problem, and not one human being in decades will lift a finger. Well talk about skills being a problem, nobody will do anything. We'll get beaten in the breakdown for years, nobody will do anything to buck the trend. These are problems with easy solutions. The only solution they prefer is to talk nonsense and perpetuate fallacies to avoid having to face reality. Then they cry when it predictably goes wrong. Gert Smal wanted to do some work to improve how the game is run in ZA. He had good ideas. Nothing was implemented. Mallet and Meyer wanted to do similar things. All these men have been vilified at times and ended up abroad. South Africa attacks its greatest minds because they will bring about change. And change is not something South Africans like. New Zealand coaches are not lightyears ahead, but their organizations are. 

BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
20 Jul 2018, 09:11
#5
20 Jul 2018, 09:11#5
Moz, not to turn it into a pee pee contest, but after the Bulls first win of the season and the first under Mitchell, when everyone was going gaga over the man, I already mentioned his poor track record and expressed serious reservations about what was to be expected of him. Bear in mind I am a Bulls supporter, so even with my skewed objectivity, it was clear to me from the start, that not much hope should be placed on Mitchell. Clearly justified. 
BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
20 Jul 2018, 09:17
#6
20 Jul 2018, 09:17#6

Lurker, reading your post just suddenly gave me a light bulb moment. How many times have we heard our coaches say "We are not worried about them, we just need to execute our gameplan properly"? Is that not code for....we won't change anything because of our opposition, we're just going to keep doing the exact same thing, but try and do it better. 


I think you are 100% correct, we simply cannot adapt quickly enough to the changing trends in world rugby. Our player pool is not the problem...except maybe for some frailties with genuine no.6 fetchers and decent centers. 

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,253 posts
20 Jul 2018, 10:08
#7
20 Jul 2018, 10:08#7
Dalton's criticism is the same of the Sharks, and the Stormers- in the very same article. However, the journalist has written the article to focus on the Bulls, and removed context. 
Dalton" The Bulls have been absolutely woeful this season. And what concerns me about the Sharks, Stormers and Bulls is their inability to perform consistently week in and week out. The skill level of our top players - who are professionals training every single day, twice a day, five days a week - is absolutely pathetic. It’s absolutely laughable.”
On paper, the Bulls have the worst squad of the 3. Certainly the least depth of the 3 teams. On paper, the Sharks have the best team.
The problem with Mitchell is that most of the teams he has been manager of, have never had squads that can win SupeRugby. He usually gets frustrated before he sews the results of his labour, and is past tense.
He took the pathetic Western Force to their best results they have ever had in SuperRugby. He also took a pub team at the Lions and won the Curry Cup. What he is commenting on is that injuries, and suspensions have destroyed the required depth- of the Bulls and has been forced to blood too many new players.
Something that has been a factor for SA teams this year, is that the rolling maul has been useless for all of our teams. This has traditionally been the main sources of tries for SA teams, but it just has not worked in Super Rugby in 2018 for any of the teams. Either the teams are better at defending against it, or the referees just blow it out of the game. 
Apparently Mitchell has declined a contract extension until he gets better players to fill the depth. I think he should stick with the Bulls, and hopefully they get more depth in the off-season. The loose forwards are a joke, and the front row is average at best. A scrumhalf that can kick is required, because Pollard has a minimal kicking game. Perhaps an inside centre with a kicking game as well. A wing with outright pace
However in criticism of Mitchell is that he is the only coach that is slating his team in the media. He has a track record of doing this when the pressure builds. 2019 is going to be worse than Kamp Straalstraad.
AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
20 Jul 2018, 13:44
#8
20 Jul 2018, 13:44#8

I wouldn't say mauls are the main means of scoring tries for our teams, but they were a big weapon. If done right it's almost indefensible. Set pieces are a big problem. There's no easy way to fix this because it's not important in Super rugby like it is outside of it! I remember the days when Super rugby was a few millimetres beneath test rugby. 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 Jul 2018, 14:15
#9
20 Jul 2018, 14:15#9
Lurker your post above is one of the best I have read in years......really insightful and far better than the dross produced by our so called journalists and bloggers like Biltongbek. Well done....if we can debate at this level this site comes to life.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Jul 2018, 16:35
#10
20 Jul 2018, 16:35#10

I would be even more worried about the Stormers than I am about the Bulls.   The Bulls won some games against strong teams - who beats the Stormers with ease - and they were cheated by the ref in one game which they should have won.   

Why the obsession with the Bulls - who last year was desperately poor and not the Stormers who is going backwards rapidly?

Both teams needs major improvement - I have some hope for the Bulls - none for the Stormers.  Taking Fleck as coach was a disaster for the team.  

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,253 posts
20 Jul 2018, 19:16
#11
20 Jul 2018, 19:16#11
The Bulls did play some entertaining rugby. When last has a Bulls back line looked so dangerous on attack. The Bulls pack apart from the locks is average to poor. Throw in some of the forwards from 2005-2010, and things would be different. 
Mitchell also wants a quality assistant coach, and not a donkey of the likes of Noel Marias.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
20 Jul 2018, 21:46
#12
20 Jul 2018, 21:46#12

So to summarise, the Bulls , Sharks and Stormers are all putrid but Mitchell after one short year is all to blame for the bulls not performing having been beaten for last place by the Stormers by a hairs breath..

Give him two more seasons. The style the Bulls are playing is better and so are their skills. Mitchell needs time to build his squad and continue the improvements we have seen. Keep improving and the results will come.

— END OF THREAD —

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