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FORUM / RUGBY /  Jannie is the national treasure

Jannie is the national treasure

Started by Mozart41 REPLIES564 VIEWS· 18 Jul 2014, 16:17
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MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
18 Jul 2014, 16:17
#1
18 Jul 2014, 16:17#1

Not because he is the best tighthead in the world....but because, it appears, he is our only tighthead. Who else could we start against NZ. Not Coenie, Marcel, Malherbe or any other young tighthead in the S15. Hell at this point Pat Cilliers looks like the only other adult in the room. Any thoughts....it's a serious question.

DB
DbDraad
Captain26,388 posts
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
18 Jul 2014, 19:06
#2
18 Jul 2014, 19:06#2
 Agreed Moz, Malherbe and the Lions bloke is Ok, but time is running out to test and expose them to test rugby. I hope Meyer  has now given up on the Coenie experiment. Hell, John Smit was abetter 3!
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
18 Jul 2014, 21:17
#3
18 Jul 2014, 21:17#3
The Lions front row has bested the Bools and Cheetahs recently....so there has to be some talent there. But it would be scary to start a new tighthead. So in the disastrous absence of Jannie, I guess Malherbe....but I have to say he has never much impressed me. I might go with Cilliers  
BE
Beeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
18 Jul 2014, 21:33
#4
18 Jul 2014, 21:33#4
Dr Moz there is nothing wrong with Malherbe's scrumming. Beast could not budge him. Outside the scrum he is far better than Jannie. He is 23 and comes in at a mobile hardworking 124 kg. Great prospect
The two Lions props Redlinghuys (114kg) and Van der merwe (115 kg) have done well.Nothing much wrong with MArcel van der Merwe either.
Pat Cilliers 27 years old and 113 kg doesnt cut it for me as atest player. Its st ep up too far. 
BE
Beeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
18 Jul 2014, 21:35
#5
18 Jul 2014, 21:35#5
 Meyer clung onto the sharks front row like a safety blanket and missed an opportunity in June I thought
sharkbok
sharkbok
Captain23,294 posts
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,294 posts
18 Jul 2014, 21:50
#6
18 Jul 2014, 21:50#6
I would rather have Malherbe any day of the week. 
Jannie is a liability on defense. I have never seen any player ever concede tries at critical points in the game from missed tackles as Jannie. 
His work rate outside the scrum is poor, and his scrumming is good on some days but average on other days. 

CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
18 Jul 2014, 22:52
#7
18 Jul 2014, 22:52#7
 Moart
Cilliers was tried in the past and failed and that is the end of your argument in his case.  Why d you think that when Malherbe is acailabel - he is preferred by the Stormers to Cilliers?   The answer is plain and simple - he is a btter player in all Departments of the game than Cilliers.  
The issue here is to my mind that Van der Merwe and Coenie showed some dificiencies in scrumming.  Van der Merwe can iprove with more experience - but sad to say that neck injury is impacting on Coenie's [erformance.   I must agree  with you he is not the answer.
If you look at Jannie du Plessis - he has his good days and his bad days.  He is very likely to be carded or give away penalties inside and outside of scrumming.   He iss still my first choice at tight-head - but I am not so sure about him being the national treasure you give him out to be.   
BE
Beeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
18 Jul 2014, 22:58
#8
18 Jul 2014, 22:58#8
 Malherbe is comming back from along term injury. We will be relying on Jannie.Coenie cant scrum. Can he be fixed. If he could it would probably have happened by now?
Get him to trim down to 118 kg and play him hooker! 
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
18 Jul 2014, 23:08
#9
18 Jul 2014, 23:08#9
Beeno
Malherbe was injured - he suffered from Concussion - on 3 may 2014.  And when I spoke his father he said he would be back for the CC.  It was not really a physical injury - he kept on doing physical training - but because the concussion symptoms took longer than expected to heal - he was kept out of the Springbok squad and not used for the last two matches of the Stormers in Super 15.  He will start for the Stormers in the CC when it starts and will be ready to play for the Springboks as from the start of the RC.


OI
oimatey
Pro1,870 posts
OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
18 Jul 2014, 23:15
#10
18 Jul 2014, 23:15#10
I think it would have been better for Malherbe if it had been an actual physical injury. Lingering concussions are really bad news and the risk of recurrence is unacceptably high. Really bad timing for him as he was playing some good rugby and would have surely been part of the June series for the Boks.
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 Jul 2014, 00:00
#11
19 Jul 2014, 00:00#11
 oimaetey
The problem was that after Malherbe came off the field with concussion - for some stupid reason reason or another he was sent back onto the field and played on for another 10 minutes.  Apparently during that ten minutes the concussion problem got worse.    He should not have gone back - if he did not go back to play further - he would have been back weeks ago to play .   
SH
Shezza
Pro2,471 posts
SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
19 Jul 2014, 00:04
#12
19 Jul 2014, 00:04#12
 The Lions scrum has been in the scrums of the competition and I'm pretty sure they pushed the Sharks scrum if memory serves correctly!
BO
bobbok...
Captain10,129 posts
BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
19 Jul 2014, 02:57
#13
19 Jul 2014, 02:57#13
 Good point Mozart, HM needs to nurse him through to the RWC ....... in the same way Jake handled Os in '07 .

MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
19 Jul 2014, 05:30
#14
19 Jul 2014, 05:30#14
 Absolutely Blob.
JE
JeromeV
Club Pro492 posts
JE
JeromeVClub Pro492 posts
19 Jul 2014, 08:15
#15
19 Jul 2014, 08:15#15
Well put Sharkbok

Jannie du Plessis is one out of the few that is overrated in the boks. Regardless of how bad he plays during the course of Super15 or RC he will remain the first choice tighthead prop merely based on the amount of Springbok caps he's got which is unfortunate but true. Aside the fact that he is deficient player, it is clear that Jannie is a easy player to provoke in the push and shove situations which often leads to a yellow card with that kind of player. That hard slap by Jannie on Karl Lowe relates to the point that I made.
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 Jul 2014, 16:58
#16
20 Jul 2014, 16:58#16
So Jerome how do you feel after yesterday? Much has been rightly said about Tom de Toit....but Jannie was massive as well.
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Jul 2014, 18:49
#17
20 Jul 2014, 18:49#17
 Jannie in scrumming was very strong - pity about the two penalties he gave away though.  
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 Jul 2014, 19:42
#18
20 Jul 2014, 19:42#18
So you blame Jannie for that knee that just touched the deck before the try that was disallowed?  
CE
Ceradyne
Pro9,374 posts
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
20 Jul 2014, 19:45
#19
20 Jul 2014, 19:45#19

mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7701 RE: Jannie is the national treasure
July 20, 2014, 17:42:02 So you blame Jannie for that knee that just touched the deck before the try that was disallowed? 
I am surprised that he hasn't been getting some stick because he has a crap hairdo as well?


MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 Jul 2014, 20:12
#20
20 Jul 2014, 20:12#20
That's what the Oom told the mayor of Bremen in his sleep last night. I think he is the donkey at the bottom!
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Jul 2014, 22:03
#21
20 Jul 2014, 22:03#21
 Mozart
Starting again with your personal Bullshit  after I exposed yoo r lies. 
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 Jul 2014, 22:06
#22
20 Jul 2014, 22:06#22
You exposed nothing you old fool. I could look at that game and prove both my points ten times over. But you are such a coward, you would just exit the string. Accept it, rugby guys give Frans passing marks and recognize your man Reinach was way too anxious out there.
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Jul 2014, 22:16
#23
20 Jul 2014, 22:16#23
 Mozart
Then do it - why don;t you point it out time and again - like I did in the case of Steyn. You won't because you can't and it will expose your lies even further.  Now he was way too ancious out there - mortal sin that one - prove it and do not use your general BS in the process.
When have I existed the string?   I m not doing it as you ran foro cover when I started a string on the Reinach issue exposing your duplicity.   When I mentioned what Steyn did - and mentioned specifically three incidents -  you ran like a coward.   Why did you not defend Steyn in those specific cases?
Reinach was way too anxious - Steyn was zero thinking ability.  I would rather have the first than the second problem with a player.   
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 Jul 2014, 22:25
#24
20 Jul 2014, 22:25#24
Can't you understand English....I'm through with proving things to you. I have done so many times and you simply fade away. Fran's was fine, reinach flopped  
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Jul 2014, 22:42
#25
20 Jul 2014, 22:42#25
 OK  - I never faded away if you actually produced  facts.  This is not based on facts - it is based on Mozart misrepresentation - basically outright lies.    You have just decided Frans was fine - to hell with facts - Reinach is accused of a lot of things - but that is also fine as long as you can mislead a few people believing your drivel.  
You are the one who suddenly takes cover in this case under a flood of verbal diarrhea because you made false comments - got caught out - and must no w find an escape mechanism.       
CE
Ceradyne
Pro9,374 posts
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
20 Jul 2014, 23:00
#26
20 Jul 2014, 23:00#26
 "You are the one who suddenly takes cover in this case under a flood of verbal diarrhea because you made false comments - got caught out - and must now find an escape mechanism.  "

Time to post this one again:
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Jul 2014, 23:03
#27
20 Jul 2014, 23:03#27
 Dof Doos
Time to be idiotic again.   
CE
Ceradyne
Pro9,374 posts
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
21 Jul 2014, 00:48
#28
21 Jul 2014, 00:48#28
 
SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
21 Jul 2014, 00:51
#29
21 Jul 2014, 00:51#29
Jannie has always been a good tighthead, but no better than our present youngsters like Coenie, Marcel v/d Merwe, Malherbe and Frik Kirsten - FACT
CE
Ceradyne
Pro9,374 posts
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
21 Jul 2014, 02:53
#30
21 Jul 2014, 02:53#30
 Get your FACT s first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain.
SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
21 Jul 2014, 03:20
#31
21 Jul 2014, 03:20#31
You are Dutch you would not know anything about facts......it was you lot that somehow interpreted the Bible as evidence that blacks were an inferior race - hence your justification for apartheid, given your age.....my guess is that you probably initiated the movement and will have justified your case base on your interpretation of the facts......you must be so proud khaki man?  
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
21 Jul 2014, 03:38
#32
21 Jul 2014, 03:38#32

Dave totally uncalled for....if you want to read bias read Ryder Haggard or better yet read Bram Stoker for pure bias. Or read John Buchan, there we have covered England, Ireland and Canada.

 

Or read your usual, the funny papers.

 

You are big at crying racism without a shred of evidence. It's offensive.

CE
Ceradyne
Pro9,374 posts
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
21 Jul 2014, 03:42
#33
21 Jul 2014, 03:42#33
 Some more Mark Twain for you, Dave:


JE
JeromeV
Club Pro492 posts
JE
JeromeVClub Pro492 posts
21 Jul 2014, 07:17
#34
21 Jul 2014, 07:17#34
 So Jerome how do you feel after yesterday? "Much has been rightly said about Tom de Toit....but Jannie was massive as well."

Moz I wouldn't describe Jannie's performance as "massive" like you say, it was a rather average display from him. The sharks scrummaging was good with Tom de Toit and Jannie but I can also conclude that the scrummaging was the  same and dominant without Jannie when he was replaced by Lourens Adriaanse. If he was so "massive" why did Jake decide to take him off? I'll leave it up to you.

The performance doesn't change the fact that he is a deficient player and is average at times. I don't think he deserves a springbok starting spot when there are other tighthead props that doesn't give much opportunities to the opposition by penalties/missed tackles like Jannie. Meyer does not use rational thinking with certain selections.
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
21 Jul 2014, 07:35
#35
21 Jul 2014, 07:35#35
Jerome I have to disagree....there are no other tightheads who are reliable scrummagers. Jannie isn't great around the park, but tighthead is the one position that has no forgiveness if it's basic function(scrumming) is compromised.
JE
JeromeV
Club Pro492 posts
JE
JeromeVClub Pro492 posts
21 Jul 2014, 08:14
#36
21 Jul 2014, 08:14#36
 The basic function of a tighthead prop is scrumming but what shouldn't be ignored is the other aspects aside from scrumming such as (General play, Discipline, Defensive workrate) which is just as important especially at international level.
SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
21 Jul 2014, 15:46
#37
21 Jul 2014, 15:46#37

Fact is our young tightheads have had no issues at scrum time. Malherbe has been very good. Marcel v/d Merwe and Frik Kirsten got Bok call ups this year for good reason - they have been damn good in the scrums.

 

 

There has been lies written about Marcel's scrumming against the Lions and Rebels, lies that have exposed the author

 

 

Coenie's transition to tighthead has been good as evidenced by his performances there at test level off the bench. This S15 he has been solid at 3 with only the ref getting it hopelessly wrong against the Lions pining him for inwards scrumming when it was impossible to lay the blame on Coenie or v/d Merwe. That same ref made a compete arse of himself by carding Coenie only to award the Cheetahs a free kick the following scrum against v/d Merwe for inwards scrumming.

 

 

Fact is we have greater depth at tighthead than any other country. Our young tightheads are better scrummagers than Jannie was at the same age and all offer far more in general play.

 

 

Jannie has always been good, the same posters who are lauding him now were telling us he was useless years ago. Jannie is no better a scrummager than Coenie, Marcel, Malherbe or Frik Kirsten.........our prop depth is very healthy as are most positions.

 

 

We have more than enough material to work with in Coenie, Marcel v/d Merwe, Nkanyane, Kitshoff, Malherbe, Mellett, Frik Kirsten, Maks v/Dyk, Ollie Kebble and Thomas du Toit.

 

 

The reality is, you don't see tightheads or looseheads dominating their opposite numbers one on one.....the scrum is about the collective whole.......the Sharks vs Highlanders is a prime example.......nothing changed in terms of Sharks dominance when Jannie and du Toit were subbed.

 

 

Any combination of Coenie, Beast, Marcel v/d Merwe, Malherbe, Nkanyane, Kirsten and Kitshoff with Bismark or Strauss between them with Etzebeth, Willemse, PSDT, Lood, Jacques du Plessis, Coetzee, Arno Botha and Vermeulen behind them should more than be able to hold their own in the scrums at test level

DA
Devil's Advocate
Pro7,008 posts
DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
21 Jul 2014, 16:25
#38
21 Jul 2014, 16:25#38

Despicable post 

 

Nothing more... nothing less

 

Saffex

Status:Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8415 RE: Jannie is the national treasure
July 21, 2014, 01:20:42 You are Dutch you would not know anything about facts......it was you lot that somehow interpreted the Bible as evidence that blacks were an inferior race - hence your justification for apartheid, given your age.....my guess is that you probably initiated the movement and will have justified your case base on your interpretation of the facts......you must be so proud khaki man?


MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
21 Jul 2014, 16:34
#39
21 Jul 2014, 16:34#39
Yes a bloody disgrace.  
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 Jul 2014, 18:04
#40
21 Jul 2014, 18:04#40
 Mozart
There are no other tightheads god enough to take over from Jannie?   Who did that rating?    If it is you we know you lie about player performances like it is unbelievable.
I said initially I have no objection to Jannie being selected - but he definitely is not irreplaceable and "a national treasure" as you put it.    
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