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FORUM / RUGBY /  Jaque Fourie retires from international rugby

Jaque Fourie retires from international rugby

Started by Pakie38 REPLIES553 VIEWS· 27 Nov 2014, 08:04
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PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
27 Nov 2014, 08:04
#1
27 Nov 2014, 08:04#1

Will also not be available for the Sharks in the S15 as he has decided to focus on his career in Japan.

BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
27 Nov 2014, 08:20
#2
27 Nov 2014, 08:20#2
I think a few of those predicting he would play for the Boks again will be relieved at this news.
One of the big mysteries for me is how he moved to Japan when he was at his peak and probably one of the best 13's in the world! The move effectively excluded him from playing for the Boks again. He wasn't that old either! 
Anyway, I really liked him and lord knows the 13 spot has been a stuff up since he left. It still is!
PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
27 Nov 2014, 08:32
#3
27 Nov 2014, 08:32#3
Well he did play for the Boks in the outgoing tour last season, but it was clear that he is way past his best. Right decision as far as I'm concerned.
RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
27 Nov 2014, 08:35
#4
27 Nov 2014, 08:35#4
I think the reason Jaque went to Japan in the first place was money and I'm guessing the reason negotiations fell through with the Sharks was also because of money. Seems he put money before fame and glory.

I also liked Jaque Fourie in his day but it's obvious that he's stagnated as a player in Japan and he shouldn't really even be in the reckoning for the Bok #13 jersey. Damian De Allende, Paul Jordaan and Juan de Jongh are all better candidates right now . . . probably a few others as well that I'm forgetting.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Nov 2014, 08:38
#5
27 Nov 2014, 08:38#5
 Pakie
As Bluebok said he ws good when he left for Japan initially - but playing rugby in Japan has serious avantages for players - not only the big bucks they earn - but it is considerably less demanding than oplaying in SA.
The reusltis that the players get "soft" - when playing there.  When theyr eturn the signs are clear - they lost pace, they lost physical ability ad they get injured far too easily and theinjuries are normally serious.
Jacques Fourie looked defensively quite good last year - even thoug Davies (the Welsh centr) beat him twice on account of his speed deficiency.  For the rest he was good in defnese - but uteerly useless in attacking play.   That being the case - he probably after his altest injury realized that his days of international rugby is gone and that he must stay in Japan where his money would be earned in much greater quantity with much less effort.
In essense we have a serious problem at 13 - but I think it would have been a greater problem to play Jacque Fourie in that possition.   
However, we should thank him for his services to Springbok rugby in the past and congratulate him for taking a decision that could only have possible results for the Springbok team of the future.   
Bakkies set an excellent example - now followed by Fourie.   We can only hope that the same honesty  in self-assessment is followed by Matfield, Alberts and even Jannie du Plessis - since Meyer would enver take a decision to replace them. .        
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
27 Nov 2014, 08:43
#6
27 Nov 2014, 08:43#6

It is always sad when a player that has served South Africa well decides to retire, Jacques Fourie was a great player, but there comes a time when you have to pull the plug on an illustrious career, for me he was one of the best finishers in midfield, scored nearly a try every second match.


It is the honourable thing to do when you realise you can no longer benefit your team, he is making good money in Japan, and I thank him for his service.

BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
27 Nov 2014, 08:56
#7
27 Nov 2014, 08:56#7
When he moved to Japan he was certainly not past it . I agree now, 3 + years later he is past it, but he wasn't when he left. Also, I am pretty sure the standard of rugby in Japan isn't likely to keep players at their best. 
BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
27 Nov 2014, 09:01
#8
27 Nov 2014, 09:01#8
Sorry, my computer hung, my above post was in response to Pakies second post, but in the mean time others' had already said the same thing.  
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
27 Nov 2014, 09:10
#9
27 Nov 2014, 09:10#9
 
Not to worry Blue ... we understand ... your having a bad day.

It happens.


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Nov 2014, 09:20
#10
27 Nov 2014, 09:20#10
 Buebok
The situation in Japan rugby was outlined by Richard Kahue in a discussion  on the issue of playing riugby in Japan.   He said that in Japan they play rugby in  more relaxed environment and it is not strenuous to play twoo games a month.
The issue then turns to the physical deficiencies that develop in such a relaxed environment.   Kahue - also a top class 13 in his hay day - came beack to the Chiefs in Super 15 and was nearly totally wrecked in one game - and he certainly was not physically up to Super 15 rugby anymore - leave alone test rugby.   
I think what Kahue said is in fact a fair asessment of the situation.   Peter Grant came back to the Stormers and virtually out for the season - he definitely was a much poorer player than he used to be before he left for Japan.   Judged oon the rather invisible games for the Springboks and also his latest injury - Fourie du Preez's game performances and condition in Japan had also deteriorated.   Pietersen lost srious pace playing there and his epformances at present is a joke in bad tatse.   Frnacois Steyn was bad for the Sharks before his departure this year - what will he be like when he reurns after the Japanese season - probably even worse than he was this year and a disaster last year.    My feeling for a long time has been that the players from Japan should be left in Japan and not b e inflicted on the  Springbok team.  That includes Du Preez and Bekker as well.          
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
27 Nov 2014, 09:26
#11
27 Nov 2014, 09:26#11

Few players from France are up to scratch as well.


Bakkies Botha, Bryan Habana, Frans Steyn, MOrne Steyn, they become less than the sum of their parts. 

BO
BokBFClub Pro421 posts
27 Nov 2014, 09:29
#12
27 Nov 2014, 09:29#12
S Class player, I won't forget  watching live the game changing try in the second test against BIL. Respect to him for making the right decision for the Boks
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
27 Nov 2014, 09:46
#13
27 Nov 2014, 09:46#13
 
High time!!

Two down ... several to go.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Nov 2014, 09:48
#14
27 Nov 2014, 09:48#14
 BB
You forgot about Fat Gurthro in your list.   In the case Frncois Steyn you are correct - he left here weiighing 103 kgs and came back 118 kgs.   He and Gurthro tried to destory the food suply chain in France and made a determined effort to make a serious impact.
All those frogs legs and escargot as startrs and followied by French loaf - has had a disastous effect on them.   Fat - fatter - Fat test
PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
27 Nov 2014, 10:48
#15
27 Nov 2014, 10:48#15
Yes Blue I agree with what you're saying. A season in S15 would have shown us where he's at and whether he can get some of his sharpness back, but anyway, he has made his decision.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
27 Nov 2014, 12:00
#16
27 Nov 2014, 12:00#16
Good on Fourie as he is clearly past it at the highest level.......take note Matfield, Steenkamp and Jean!!!!!  
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,293 posts
27 Nov 2014, 12:42
#17
27 Nov 2014, 12:42#17
Sounds like a twat. 
Meyer is playing two inside centres as a combination stop gap until the return on Fourie. Now he has stabbed Meyer in the back by deciding to retire. 
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
27 Nov 2014, 12:44
#18
27 Nov 2014, 12:44#18

No you twat, he knows that he is not good enough for test rugby anymore...speaks volumes for useless Meyer who cant see it......hell the players themselves know like Bakkies and Fourie, but our idiot coach is away with the fairies.

 

Sharktwat, catch a wake up you ignorant man........do you know anything about rugby?  

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,293 posts
27 Nov 2014, 12:50
#19
27 Nov 2014, 12:50#19
I know that clubs are willing to pay Springbok greats allot of money. Most international coaches would still play him. 
Much more than your flavour of the week Curry Cup players that you punt as Springboks who are not even good enough to be a standout at SuperXV level. 
You have a new list of young fatties as Springboks candidates each week. Most of whom cant step or pass and catch.
Lets play crash ball Taute at outside centre you moron. No club is going to cough up any money like the 5 million that Jaque Fourie gets paid each year, for a loser like Jaco Taute
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
27 Nov 2014, 13:14
#20
27 Nov 2014, 13:14#20

I would like to add this after reading Brendon Nel's article on Su per sport. 


Over the past two years I often voiced my displeasure in regards to the fact that SARU has a policy in place of selecting overseas players.

Often I have been criticised for my stance in this regard, many suggesting that players leave for various reasons and they should not be punished for leaving when they want to make a better living for themselves.

I have always argued that a player who leaves have other priorities in mind and representing his country was not one of them, it was just a “nice to have option”

Heyeneke Meyer has digressed in my view as his reliance on retired and overseas players have become a mainstay of his plan to conquer the rugby world in next year’s edition of the Rugby World Cup.

He has held firm in his belief that players such as Victor Matfield, Bakkies Botha, Ruan Pienaar, Fourie du Preez, Frans Steyn, Jacque Fourie, Bryan Habana, JP PIetersen and Morne Steyn had the required experience to benefit the Springboks in their lead up to the World Cup and also during it.

Truth be told, none of these players have been able to show the form of when they were in their prime, and many of them has become older, slower and have regressed in regards to their performances.

The best example of a player regressing and Heyeneke stubbornly holding on was Morne Steyn who could not even hold down the starting position at his French Club Stade Francais. It had come down to yet another poor performance in the Rugby Championship before Meyer reluctantly realised he could no longer hold onto his Metronome as Morne Steyn was simply no longer good enough, no matter how badly he wanted him to be.

Not sure whether I am even allowed to suggest I am pissed off about the newest revelations, but here goes.

Heyneke Meyer planned that Jacque Fourie would be the midfield partner for Jean de Villiers going into 2015. He put so much belief in the fact that Jacque Fourie would return, that he failed to develop a midfield combination that could be considered world class.

There is nothing wrong with the quality of Jan Serfontein, in fact he has done remarkably well considering he has been playing at 13, Jean de Villiers had a solid 2013, but as the years go by, players age and they lose pace and form.

Although the combination of Jean de Villiers and Jan Serfontein was mostly successful in defence, as an attacking combination they have not been very successful, they are two very similar players, and neither are very good distributors.

So now Jacque Fourie is gone, he has decided to retire from International rugby, and have negated any plans Meyer has had. Effectively leaving Meyer in a hole, as the midfield combination as it stands now, have failed to impress on attack, and when you add Jean de Villiers’ tendency to break the defensive line, it should be a concern to any Springbok supporter.

Meyer has now plucked the fruits of his labour, his reliance on players plying their trade overseas has once again bitten him in the arse.

When will SARU learn that the reality of the situation is once a player leaves, the negative outweighs any positives.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
27 Nov 2014, 13:48
#21
27 Nov 2014, 13:48#21

We are talking Japan you idiot.....one would swear they knew what they were doing when it comes to rugby?

 

One only needed to see Fourie this time last year for the Boks where he gained all of 13 metres in 4 tests and never beat a single defender or made a clean break  

KA
KalaedFreddieClub Pro495 posts
27 Nov 2014, 13:55
#22
27 Nov 2014, 13:55#22
 Ja, age is a bitc4 and sooner or later it catches up with a fella.  Fourie was good at one time but he made the decision to go for the money.   fame does not buy beer so maybe he did the right thing, who will know.  We will pr ay for him too.
Salaam
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
27 Nov 2014, 15:34
#23
27 Nov 2014, 15:34#23
Congrats Jaque on an outstanding career. Probably the right time to retire but you could have come home played Super rugby and see how it went.
The writer is making a classical error in logic. Its not the selection of overseas players that is wrong in principle it bad selection. Of course if there is an equivalent player at home pick him.
I cannot but laugh at CC so jaundiced - two down, several to go.




DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
27 Nov 2014, 15:42
#24
27 Nov 2014, 15:42#24
He was past his best on the 2013 EOYT, but he still showed that he was far more intelligent than any other centre in South Africa. De Allende was a tragedy, JP not much better, JJ embarrassing, Taute showed promise but was dropped too early as he still needed work. 
Despite some players being faster or more athletic, they still could not outperform Fourie. The best alternative was de Jongh and right now we just have a,  sometimes, good tackler. I would have liked de Jongh as a starter and Fourie in the squad just as back-up. Not because he is at his peak, but because he can think and hold up his channel with pro-active defending and do things other players wouldn't think of doing . His positional play and communication is still lightyears ahead of the others. It seems outside centre will haunt us for many years to come. Hopefully those who criticized him for so long can see just how much he brought to the jersey.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Nov 2014, 16:18
#25
27 Nov 2014, 16:18#25
 Letsal
Jacque may have been inteeligent when he was at his peak - burt in the EOYT he showed no inteeligence and was so pace-deficient that  could not make any headway.   Intlligence without physical ability represents a zero in performance.
Your support of Juan de Jongh is surprising taking into account the level of incompetence and of stupidity displayed by that player.   The worst defending center in all Super 15 franchises for the past wo years - the player who have never created any line break and achieved nothing without being put into space by another player - after which he can finsinh off good moves - that is after somebody else has done the intelligent play.    You come up with a totally non-performing 13 in the last  three years - the player who went AWOL in the Murrayfield and Twickenham tests in 2012 as a solution.   
Fourie should never have played in the EOYT last year - he was way past it and physically-deficient - so he brought zero to the game in the three tests he played.  He was goodin years long ago - but the Japanese Club environment caused him to be worse than any opther outside center who played for the Springboks from 2012 - bar th useless De Jongh who went A\WOL when selected to play.           
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Nov 2014, 16:29
#26
27 Nov 2014, 16:29#26
 There is a probllem here which members regularly ignore.  The issue here is that the Clubs have to pay for long injury absences by the players contracted to them.   h seocnd issue is that the physical abilities of players are reduced by playing rugby i a soft environment.   If they play Super 15 or tests the propability of being injured is high because of the inherent physical problems and they would not continueto carry the costs of injuries to players when occurring in tougher competitions.   
The situation is that Fourie knew that if if he got injured in playing Super 15 and tests - and the likelihood remains high that it would happen - he stood to lose millions fo dollars in compensation.   So the answer is easy -
*    go and play in an environment where due to physical deficiencies the likelihood of serious injury is high; and
*    lose  your comepnsation for th period of absence.
That is the brutal truth - and I would not be surprised if Du Preez opts out as well.  He was not a star and during the third match he played in June got injured so seriously that he was out of rugby for the rest of the year.   So will he take a chance if ot is going to cost him a couple of million dollars in compensation?   Highy unlikely.
 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
27 Nov 2014, 16:30
#27
27 Nov 2014, 16:30#27
We have no  test class 13 centre. Step is way to slow...he was gassed by the Pom flyhalf. JJ is a feeble robot. De Allende who has the best physical credentials, makes poor decisions...we saw that in the S 15 and in his limited test play.

So I we now have a problem  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Nov 2014, 16:41
#28
27 Nov 2014, 16:41#28
 After playing as a 13 for the first time since he left school De Allende in Mozart's biased comments - made poor decisions.   That is the biggest load of crap I have heard for a while and totally expected from our resident moron leader.  He is the one that can judge a player's proficiency from one occurrence on the fild of play and that according to him is career-defining.   What aload of crap - I say again.
Meyer is probably right - he asked th Stormers to make sure that De Allend gets game time at 13 in Super 15 next year - so as to accustomg himslef to play in that position.   That will determine whther De Allende is the answer or not.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
27 Nov 2014, 16:50
#29
27 Nov 2014, 16:50#29
" he asked the Stormers to make sure de Allende gets game time at 13 in Super 15 next year"

Which neatly proves my point. Getting game time at 13 won't improve his physical credentials, it will improve his decision making...which HM obviously knows to be inadequate.
Thanks Oom....you dumped on my point and then came back and made it perfectly for me. Can this man get any more stupid, or is he approaching some kind of limit?
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Nov 2014, 16:59
#30
27 Nov 2014, 16:59#30
 I have yet to reach the level of stupidity attained by ypou - but that would eb extremely diifficult if not impossible.  You are the one who says that one incident in a match is career-defining.   If you put in what I wrote - it would first of all be a miracle - and secondly would be downplayed as a point of interest.  
When that issue raised by me was previously discussed on this Board - you were criticizing it as of no importance and supported Pietersen to play at 13.   So what is new?  
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
27 Nov 2014, 17:13
#31
27 Nov 2014, 17:13#31

Rubbish we have 13's to burn. JJ should never have been discarded in the first place. de Allende was our best centre all S15 and has had virtually no test exposure to make a name for himself. Meyer pathetically threw in the towel on the lad so early on.

 

Other good options are Stokkies Hanekom of the Lions, Pat Howard and Taute  of WP, Sithole and Tyler Fisher of the Sharks.

 

Not to mention Kobus v/Wyk of WP who is being wasted on the wing having played all his age group rugby at centre......he looks like another JJ clone.....plenty of pace and a great step.

 

We have more than enough material to work with but sadly we are stuck with an unimaginative coach stuck in a time warm and with 'conservative' as his second name. 

BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
27 Nov 2014, 17:15
#32
27 Nov 2014, 17:15#32
I agree JJ was discarded prematurely, he really didn't play badly.  
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
27 Nov 2014, 17:17
#33
27 Nov 2014, 17:17#33
I disagree....and the proof of the pudding is his toothless play  in S15 2014. Bok centres don't get outplayed every week. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Nov 2014, 17:23
#34
27 Nov 2014, 17:23#34
 Mozart
You will surprised - but i agree with you in respect of JJ - a natural wing who has the speed to play on the wing.   He never really adjusted to play at center.  
AG
AgPleezDeddyClub Pro900 posts
27 Nov 2014, 17:45
#35
27 Nov 2014, 17:45#35
 Another Springbok great has closed their book on a fantastic international career. Thanks for everything, Jaque!
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
27 Nov 2014, 17:50
#36
27 Nov 2014, 17:50#36

What utter bullshit that JJ was outplayed in every S15 game - that is a lie. He was never outplayed at all. The guy was receiving on average 5 balls a game, its the Bulls way. If the Bulls don't play it wide, there is very little a 13 can do.

 

Reality is, none of the SA centres stood tall this S15......the best of the lot was de Allende.

 

JJ had the best defensive stats of all the SA centres in this S15....so much for him having an issue there. 

AG
AgPleezDeddyClub Pro900 posts
27 Nov 2014, 17:54
#37
27 Nov 2014, 17:54#37
 JJ gets a lot of unfair criticism, he had a good start to his Bok career and then had a couple of mistakes against the ABS (even though he made a couple of good attacking runs) and he;s dropped by Meyer. That's enough to dent any players confidence.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
27 Nov 2014, 18:01
#38
27 Nov 2014, 18:01#38
Well actually he never made any mistakes against the AB's other than the Barrett miss, which was something Jean and Morne also did.  
AG
AgPleezDeddyClub Pro900 posts
27 Nov 2014, 18:19
#39
27 Nov 2014, 18:19#39
 Exactly Saffex, he never deserved to be dropped. 
— END OF THREAD —

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