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FORUM / RUGBY /  Jean De Velliers Finaly Speaks up!

Jean De Velliers Finaly Speaks up!

Started by ntanga22 REPLIES826 VIEWS· 16 Aug 2013, 11:46
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NT
ntangaClub Pro336 posts
16 Aug 2013, 11:46
#1
16 Aug 2013, 11:46#1
South Africa captain Jean de Villiers has called for an end to the policy of selecting players based overseas. Speaking to radio in New Zealand, De Villiers described the dilemma as "massive" due to the impact so many departures were having on the quality of Super Rugby teams. Of the Springbok squad playing this weekend, four of the starting XV are now based in Europe in Bryan Habana, Morné Steyn, Ruan Pienaar and Francois Louw. The replacements bench has also seen the return of Gurthrö Steenkamp, who is based with Toulouse, and Fourie du Preez who has been playing in Japan. With the exodus from the Bulls after the Super Rugby season along with Australia and New Zealand's policy not to select overseas players, De Villiers believes the South African Rugby Union needs to act. "It is a massive issue and a massive problem at this stage because without a doubt the Super Rugby sides will be weakened a hell of a lot," said De Villiers to Radio Sport. "It's something that South African rugby is looking into. We can't go on like this. We have to keep South African rugby strong. "For now, they're selected from abroad but going into the future I can't see that happening. "You don't want to change the team going into the Rugby Championship and play essentially second stringers, to put it quite harshly. "It's something they need to look at. You want to be able to pay your players good money, you want to be able to keep them in South Africa and I suppose getting the payments right is the key." South Africa captain Jean de Villiers has called for an end to the policy of selecting players based overseas. Speaking to radio in New Zealand, De Villiers described the dilemma as "massive" due to the impact so many departures were having on the quality of Super Rugby teams. Of the Springbok squad playing this weekend, four of the starting XV are now based in Europe in Bryan Habana, Morné Steyn, Ruan Pienaar and Francois Louw. The replacements bench has also seen the return of Gurthrö Steenkamp, who is based with Toulouse, and Fourie du Preez who has been playing in Japan. With the exodus from the Bulls after the Super Rugby season along with Australia and New Zealand's policy not to select overseas players, De Villiers believes the South African Rugby Union needs to act. "It is a massive issue and a massive problem at this stage because without a doubt the Super Rugby sides will be weakened a hell of a lot," said De Villiers to Radio Sport. "It's something that South African rugby is looking into. We can't go on like this. We have to keep South African rugby strong. "For now, they're selected from abroad but going into the future I can't see that happening. "You don't want to change the team going into the Rugby Championship and play essentially second stringers, to put it quite harshly. "It's something they need to look at. You want to be able to pay your players good money, you want to be able to keep them in South Africa and I suppose getting the payments right is the key."
MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
16 Aug 2013, 12:20
#2
16 Aug 2013, 12:20#2

its a catch 22 situation, if the Boks only select SA based players, then they lose the services of players like habana which is a huge loss, but theres more then enough depth in SA that u dont need to go ooverseas, but lack of success has the SARU admin and coaching staff not prepared to draw the line.

selecting players based in SA only will go a long way to ensuring their spXV teams are looked after, cos while it wont stop everyone from leaving, it will at least stop it from hemorrhaging.

also, if i was one of those players based in the UK or japan, i wouldnt be too happy with JDV voicing an opinon which effectively favours me not repping the Boks, regardless of how much JDV is looking out for SA rugby. dissent is a cancer for team synergy.

NT
ntangaClub Pro336 posts
16 Aug 2013, 12:53
#3
16 Aug 2013, 12:53#3
@ Sasu, I agree with you. SARU need to act and fast. Thinking about it, if I'm not mistaken; JDV himself played for Munster for two season. The rules on selecting foreign based players were a bit strict back then.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
16 Aug 2013, 12:54
#4
16 Aug 2013, 12:54#4
I am with De Villiers in this case. Some of Meyer's selections for his squad and in the match 23 is a real joke. There are ample players in SA better than Kirchner, Steenkamp, Kruger, Steyn and the two scrummies - to name but a few positions where Meyer has gone dilly. I think that there should be a limitation of not more than 2 players from overseas clubs to be selected and that would mean only Louw and Habana really would have a chance to be selected. The rest are merely average to poor candidates and Meyer should stop his nonsense and start selecting performance-based players - cutting out the jokes from overseas and even his local "donkey" selections. Want to see what happens here - the fact De Villeirs spoke out on the issue can cost him his captaincy - the dictatorial Meyer would not like that one.
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
16 Aug 2013, 13:00
#5
16 Aug 2013, 13:00#5
There is no way that SARU or any union/franchise can afford to play Bryan Habana R600,000 pm. Jean is just pissed off because he couldn't make it abroad. The only thing that will keep the players in SA is if the demand, from abroad, for SA players dries up and/or the Rand strengthens enough to neutralise the effects of the foreign currencies. The quota crap is also not doing a lot to stop the exodus. Think about it. There are between 30 and 40 Bok spots available per year, and there are hundreds of rugby players fighting for those spots to play a maximum of around 12 tests per year.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
16 Aug 2013, 13:21
#6
16 Aug 2013, 13:21#6
Ceradyne You missed the point completely - as per normal. It is not the issue of selection of foreignb based players only - but the selection of average to poor foreign players which is at stake here. I think that is what pissed De Villiers off. You are clueless as per normal - De Villiers can get a foreign contract if he wants one - he obviously does not want one for hi own personal reasons. The exchange rate is a problem - but the even bigger one is the idiocy so clear in Meyer's selections - whether selecting foreign-based players or selecting his local crap ones. I agree largely with Saffex in this case - select the best performers - not the crap Meyer does. If that be the case the team will not be weaken substantially at all.
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
16 Aug 2013, 13:21
#7
16 Aug 2013, 13:21#7

 

I see your posting as Cerdyne today.

 

Giving Devil's Advocate a little bench time, huh??

SP
SpooonyClub Pro718 posts
16 Aug 2013, 13:33
#8
16 Aug 2013, 13:33#8

If we stop selecting people based on the color of their skin then people like Habana do not have to go overseas cause there would be more money to pay them. Since we have to contract players just for window dressing there is less money to pay the more deserving 

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
16 Aug 2013, 13:43
#9
16 Aug 2013, 13:43#9
@Maaik. You are the one missing the point. Where did Jean de Villiers say that the foreign based players were average to poor. You are talking kak as per usual. @CC. There is an expression in Afrikaans.............. "soek jy geselskap of is jy net lus om kak te praat?". Ask if you need that to be translated.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
16 Aug 2013, 13:52
#10
16 Aug 2013, 13:52#10
Ceradyne Jy is die een wat meestal KAK praat. You started the crap by disparaging De Villiers on the issue of him being a flop playing for Munster - while he had some injury problems while playing for them and then deciding to continue his career locally. If indeed he is pissed off - the real reason would be crap selections by Meyer - nothing else. Dunderhead - get the picture now?
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
16 Aug 2013, 15:00
#11
16 Aug 2013, 15:00#11

These are the top 10 earners in French rugby (note that the has-been, Bakkies Botha is in the eighth spot):

1. Jonny Wilkinson (Toulon) - €56 000 per month (746,405.18 ZAR)

2. Jonathan Sexton (Racing Metro) - €52 000 per month (693,384.97 ZAR)

3. Bryan Habana (Toulon) - €50 000 per month (666,716.32 ZAR

4. Morgan Parra (Clermont Auvergne) - €46 000 per month (613,112.74 ZAR)

5. Thierry Dusautoir (Toulouse) - €43 000 per month (573,134.50 ZA)

6. Dimitri Szarzewski (Racing Metro) - €41 000 per month (546,477.08 ZAR)

7. Carl Hayman (Toulon) - €41 000 per month (546,477.08 ZAR) 

8. Bakkies Botha (Toulon) - €41 000 per month (546,477.08 ZAR)

9. Jamie Roberts (Racing Metro) - €40 000 per month (533,216.51 ZAR)

10. Matt Giteau (Toulon) - €40 000 per month (533,216.51 ZAR)

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
16 Aug 2013, 15:07
#12
16 Aug 2013, 15:07#12

Ag ou Maaik. Ontspan daai gatspiere van jou so 'n bietjie. The stab at Jean de Villiers was pongue in cheek, but you walked straight into it. The crux of what I was trying to say is that it has bugger all to do with Heyneke Meyer's selection that have the guys pissing off overseas. That is just the result of your creative imagination. The real issue goes waaaay beyond Meyer's selections, and you know it. There is a demand for the players and they have the money to pay them salaries that they can only dream of in SA. That is the problem.

 

By the way, I am still waiting for you to indicate where and when Jean de Villiers indicated.... "....but the selection of average to poor foreign players which is at stake here. I think that is what pissed De Villiers off." Come on. Show me or admit that you were talking kak............... again.

CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
16 Aug 2013, 15:35
#13
16 Aug 2013, 15:35#13

 

Tell me Devil's ... errrh ... ummm ... Ceradyne ... when are you going to grow a spine and come clean?

 

Huh??

 

I mean you've made your name tottie ... so what?? ... A heartfelt apology to Stupid Dave and Dumbass Beano and I'm sure all will be forgiven ... 

 

 

 

 

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
16 Aug 2013, 15:37
#14
16 Aug 2013, 15:37#14

Nothing to come clean about. I am not Devil's Advocate. Believe what you want. It makes no difference to me.

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
16 Aug 2013, 17:26
#15
16 Aug 2013, 17:26#15

De Villiers is saying exactly what I've been saying for ages. Moffie and his simpering Gimps had a little snigger whan I said we shouldn't pick overseas-based players a few months ago and it will be interesting to see if Moffie changes his tune now that his hero Jean de Villiers is advocating a local-only selection policy.

 

I don't believe this has got anything to do with JdV feeling left out because he didn't get an overseas contract, it's got to do with keeping SA rugby strong and encouraging our best young players to stay and play S15 and CC rather than chase after the big money. I'm not saying young professional rugby players shouldn't have the right to earn more money overseas, I'm saying that the player should know that any overseas contract will be at the expense of a Springbok jersey.

 

The Springbok team should only ever be made up of players playing S15 or CC in South Africa, no exceptions.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
16 Aug 2013, 21:15
#16
16 Aug 2013, 21:15#16
Dear me, I have to educate the AAS again. The Rand has lost 75% of its Jan 1990 value....in the meantime the Aussie dollar has appreciated 19% and NZ by 34%. Can you see the implications? Added to which Oz and NZ offer a secure future while RSA is beset with issues like crime. - So what do you expect AAS? Because you were too scared and too lacking in talent to try your luck overseas, our young rugby players should share those traits? - Nope we have a one way talent drain, while Oz and Nz are filling their ranks with first generation immigrants from the Islands. Our circumstances are totally different and require a different approach. Worst comes to worst...we play 4 vs 5 teams in the S15.....big deal! Our national team will remain competitive as long as we don't yield to the old SA disease of isolation.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
16 Aug 2013, 23:20
#17
16 Aug 2013, 23:20#17
Mozart They will remain competitive by selecting crap foreign based players well past their prime? Is that what you advocate to make the Springboks competitive? I am really not surprised since you always hearken back to 2009 and earlier players and support the selections of Meyer - irrespective of the fact that he has lost the plot completely. Like inn any profession their is a market limit in foreign playing opportunities for SA players and they would try and pick established players - already near retirement age - the 28 to 32 years olds - in the main. Younger players rarely left and do not get top remuneration - but rather hope for improvement in future - namely to play international rugby after it became app[aren't that Meyer and his ilk is ignoring their potential and they think they can do better overseas. Whether you like it or not the Myer selection strategy is the reason. Some of his squad is so poor - they would not get a 5 cents offer from overseas - these include De Jongh which we would have to pay any overseas club to accept him. All SA top players have one primary objective - and that is to play for the Springboks. There secondary objective years down the line is to earn a decent foreign pension - that is a fact of life. The fact that Meyer select crap players from overseas reduces the chances of top performing locals to reach their primary objective - and that can contribute to them leaving. Although there are monetary considerations as well - I do not think that they are as important as it is made out to be. The top rugby players in SA terms are well paid and live very well in an environment where they do not only earn salaries by also get sponsorships and a host of other benefits. So although in the longer term money is a consideration and playing overseas is attractive - in the shorter term it is bit an over-riding consideration as you try to make it out. The real problem to stop the rot for the younger players is Meyer and his crap we have to put up with and the players - more effected that any one else - have to deal with. If they are ignored locally - obviously they would look for other opportunities overseas.
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
17 Aug 2013, 00:19
#18
17 Aug 2013, 00:19#18

So who is the clown now. Seems all of you who were in the choir about the overseas players and how Jean de Villiers was so 100% correct................ Seems he was "misquoted".

 

Rugby Championship

Jean: Overseas Boks vital 2013-08-16 17:23  

Johannesburg - South Africa captain Jean de Villiers said the national team cannot afford to discard foreign-based players if they want to compete at the highest level.

De Villiers said he had been misquoted in an earlier interview with New Zealand's Radio Sport, where it was claimed that he urged South Africa to adopt New Zealand's policy of barring overseas-based players from the national team.

An exodus of talent to England, France and Japan in recent weeks has struck an emotive chord in a country that prides itself on the strength of its domestic competition, leading to a heated debate over calling up foreign-based players.

"When it comes to Springbok rugby you want to select the strongest team. To maintain a world class team we cannot say no to them (foreign-based players)," De Villiers said on the eve of their Rugby Championship opener against Argentina on Saturday.

But he told reporters the loss of top players to foreign clubs - with winger Bryan Habana, flyhalf Morne Steyn and lock Juandre Kruger all due to start new club careers in France - would have an impact on South African Super Rugby franchises.

South African Rugby Union (SARU) officials said the issue was unavoidable given the greater financial rewards for players overseas but it was struggling to devise a definitive policy.

There are an unprecedented seven overseas-based players in South Africa's 23-man squad to face Argentina.

"Players playing locally will always get first consideration, provided the selectors have faith in their abilities," SARU chief executive Jurie Roux said last week.

However, the recall to the squad of Japanese-based scrum half Fourie du Preez, who played his last game for South Africa at the 2011 World Cup, has further muddied the waters.

 

Now what.......?

 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
17 Aug 2013, 01:01
#19
17 Aug 2013, 01:01#19

Oops ....the Oom and the Aas slathered with dripping egg. Clowns!

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
17 Aug 2013, 09:10
#20
17 Aug 2013, 09:10#20
Mozart Misquoted - really funny. He got threatened by Meyer and then followed the misquoted article on instruction from him - that is a famous way often found in politics especially. Meyer must have gone bonkers when he saw that article. Poor De Villiers - got threatened by SA Rugby's own Mugabe - our dear coach Meyer. This more than anything else confirmed my summary of what has been the case here. I bet you the relationship between Mugabe Meyer and De Villiers took a dive and our next captain will be Fourie Du Preez. Watch this space.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
17 Aug 2013, 10:47
#21
17 Aug 2013, 10:47#21

 Hahahhahahahahaha a misquote sinks rooitwit. Mike beware when you agree with rooitwit.

The factor as to why we are having this mass exodus of players have been accurately summarised. The very weak rand, quotas, the crime, the corrupt, racist and inefficient anc etc etc. Anybody thinking that the prospect of playing for the Boks will stop this is burying his head in the sand. Bekker, JP Jaque Fourie, Fourie du Preez and Brussouw went to japan. Jaque Fourie got R20 million for two years easy work. 

But today young players are leaving - Boks or not. Stander, Koster, kockott, louw. Quin Roux, Jp Du Plessis.

We couls field an international side or two from overseas based players. 

Mike and rooiwt please get real.

Meyer being a shrwed man has made the right call in adopting the principle of selcting overseas players. You may dispute whether the selections are correct but NOT THE PRINCIPLE. Unless a number of factors change nothing will stop players heading off overseas and Meyer is wise enough not to destroy Bok rugy by taking a daft decision to select based on where a player is located. 

Note also how Jean is saying how Super 15 sides are being weakened.

Trust a nz oak to get is so wrong. Was he deliberately misquoted in an effort to sow division in the Bok camp. I mean as Bok captain is Jean going to really go on record and say in future dont pick overseas players. Of course not he is not that dumb.

Sigh - one always has to so spell things out for ou rooiASS. 

 

JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
17 Aug 2013, 10:54
#22
17 Aug 2013, 10:54#22

If the Boks start the season with a couple of wins all this discussion will be forgotten IMO. But if it's a couple of loses then things really turn to crap.

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
17 Aug 2013, 12:59
#23
17 Aug 2013, 12:59#23

 JW whether we win or not doesn't change the fact we are loosing far too many players. 

— END OF THREAD —

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