Jean Devilliers

Just a question.

I read on Rugby365 and other sites that numerous people are calling for Jeans head.

They say  that he is not creating anything......but, what can he do when Meyer wants to turn him into Wynand Olivier nr. 2?

Players have to play according to a gameplan...If they dont, they get dropped. So can someone please enlighten me. Yes Jean has not had his best season, lets be honest,he butchered a few opportunities against the all blacks in NZ, but the team in general has not been brilliant.

Our gameplan is exactly like the gameplan the bulls played. It requires individual brilliance(Fourie Du Preez and Habana did this for the bulls) to break the line, rather than a team effort where gaps and overlaps are created and utilized due to a good structured gameplan.

I hear you blaming the Gameplan, but one thing sticks, creative players can and have to create inside the bounds of a gameplan.

We have to be honest, Jean has not been his creative young self for the last 2 seasons. However we still need him for a few more games. W need his leadership and seniority to take the young guys into the future as well as time to find a suitable replacement.

So on the one hand Yes he has not been the player we all know he can be, for both the Stormers and the Boks. However at this stage we still need him.

And as a footnote to come back to the gameplan thing. Again A gameplan can never stop a player from bieng creative, Creativeness is a natural instinct and cannot be incorporated into any gamplan, Therefore apart from the fact that a gameplan cannot stop a player from bieng creative, a gameplan can also not make a player creative.

I am afraid the bonehead brigade are in full flight these days calling for the captains head and the coaches head and anything that moves. Its all down to a lack of emotional maturity and rugby acumen of course.

The simple fact is Jean has consistently been among our better backline players this year for the Boks if not the best. As Moz says it needs a holistic strategy to get this backline going and I would start with getting in a world class backline coach. Here Meyer has erred I believe - or has been forced to err - probably the latter?

By the way what was our gameplan against Oz where we scored was it 5 tries? What was wrong with our game plan at Dunedin? The Boks have had some very good spells but are lacking consistency and the brillance of a number class players.

But I do have some sympathy Rugby 101 as I do think we have to up our backline play (We hav ehad tremedous backlines in the past) and also that we have the players to do it. I mean how hard is it to get players to pass the ball quickly and have them in position. Surely not rocket science! Its rugby 101 stuff! and we can do it!

A gameplan can put a player into a position to be creative.

The AB's flourish on quick ball. This allows Carter to be himself. Also ,Carter has options to his left and right. He has the option of passing to a forward or to the backs. This allows his inside centre to not attract all the attention. This allows the 10 and the 12 to be creative when they do get the ball as they also will have runners around them who they can put into space.

We have forwards running off 9(with slow ball)=Predictable

We have 12 running off 10=Predictable

True to an extent Rugby 107 however not entirely the truth. A Gameplan can make things habit. But a player's intuition will always put him in the correct spot. But as I said again you can have any gameplan, a Creative player will be able to be creative inside it's bounds. No matter what the coach say's he will always tell a creative player to play it when it's on, and don't tell me Meyer has not said that to his so called creators.

Meyer will defintely not tell a player to not be creative as I am sure he didnt tell Morne Steyn to kick away good attacking ball with a overlap in NZ.

The fact is that it has not been "on" for some time now.Players have to play according to the gameplan. Our gameplan has to allow overlaps or gaps to be created as this purely basic,it doesnt. We use one-off runners with no options aroud them. This allows them to be turned over.

Rugby107
I agree regarding the gameplan implemented, It requires individual brilliance to break the line rather than team effort where gaps and overlaps are created due to good structured gameplan. Unfortunately we don't have the mentality to exercute this gameplan structure nor do we have the right backline combination to do that with a decent backline coach. As far as De Villiers is concerned, i recently stated on another forum he is not a creative centre, he often does make fair amount of running metres which is good but he doesn't create, very much like a crash ball type. Being an inside centre requires alot more than just running a few metres. A playmaker is what we truly need on the inside to create, who will exactly fill in that spot if he goes?

Backline for next tests.
15.Taute
14.Pietersen
13.De Jongh
12.De Villers
11.Mvovo
10.Lambie
9.Pienaar

creating creative players that think for themselves take far more time and effort but the net result is a player that reacts to a match situation and no coach in the world can coach match situations 100% on a training field. the meyer fan boys might not agree with me but the best backline players in history was not overcoached but was rather part skills development program and forms part of a attacking unit. the best approach is train a players vision and other skill sets and then create space for him in a match situation and the by the numbers is the best net result.

that is why the likes of the cheetahs and sharks and all the ab and wallies teams have that attacking edge to there play. the forward obsessed mentailty of our coaches are so over whelming that its effecting the rest of the aspects of a team. front rankers standing in the backline ext. slow ruck ball being recycled to the backline ext ext. i can harp on this all day long. attacking play all starts from ruck ball. quick ruck ball generally creates more space out wide depending on your pre set phased prior to the next phase of play. i dont see that in meyers play i dont see any progession i dont see players looking upbeat or intune with the team enviroment of dynamic.

the coach should instll confidence in his players to follow there gut and to play the situation that is why we see overlaps being butchered and players not backing there speed and skills in one on one situations.

@lucid i like your team but i might even give old rhule a run but mvovo has been on form.

De Villers defence is over average and certainly has been up to standard in his recent matches, if we get rid of him there will obviously be some defensive issues in the backline, however i do believe the backline will function more superior without him in attack. I completely agree the fact that De Villiers doesn't create space much and is more of a crash ball type therefore this backline will not gain any attacking momentum. We have no choice but to place him at 12 since there is no one else who can get the fundamentals right at inside centre not even Frans Steyn.

Lucid
I hope that backline is selected this time, it doesn't get any better than that with the touring sqaud we have now. De Jongh will be a big step up at 13!

Lucid

I like your backline selection - which under the present squad circumsances - are the only viable alternative.  However, the weakness in the center combination is a major problem.  That same center combination showed zero attacking ability throughout the Super 15 - and I really expect nothing from them from an attacking perspective.

Beeno indicated that the Scotland forward pack was quite good against the All Blacks - so we will have a battle on our hands.  The difference between the Scots and the All Blacks was in the superiror backline performance by the All Blacks and in particular the massive contribution by Carter.   If our backlie malfunctions again - we are in for a torrid time. 

Mike
The combination of 'De Villers and De Jongh showed zero attacking ability throughout the Super 15' really, do you have some stats to indicate there has been some problems? Im not convinced, i think its reasonable for De Jongh to have a chance, he certainly deserves to get some game time. Hopefully he does. Are you suggesting to keep Taute at 13?

Lucid

I also believe we can give Dejong a shot, but he is correct in saying that they didnt show any attacking ability during this super 15.(This doesnt mean that they cant attack)

I believe in giving Dejong a chance if they move taute to 15.

I would still like to see Jordaan there in the future.

Mvovo? Seriously? After being given every opportunity and reverting back to his old hesitant style? After being dropped for almost losing the Bargie test.....we want him back? And that's progress?

To want to drop a mature international like Jean, who has had the best centre stats in almost every test....and bring Mvovo into the team on the wing.....shows just how little conception of test rugby most posters have.

Lucid

In essence the Stormers backline was the main reason for the poor try-scoring record in Super 15.   They scored less tries than any other team in the compeition.   However, in defence there was less tries scored against them by opposing teams than any other team in Super 15.   Those stats are clear and precise.

Total Number of tries scored       -       29

Yoyal Number of Tries backline tries scored :      22

Tries by position:     Full back         -    5

                                Wings              -   10

                               Centers            -     5    *

                               Halfbacks         -    2

*   Of the five tries scored by the Stormer centers 3 was by De Villiers and 2 by De Jongh - bothe of De Jongh's tries were scored in the home game against the Melbourne Rebels - one of the poorest teams in the competition.

The 5 yries scored by centers are in fact not the lowest number of tries scored by centers - but really not at all acceptable.

i agree with mike as always but due to selections is de jongh the only outside center in the team. if jordaan was selected then he selection would have been a no brainer.

it was a well documented fact that the stormers backline was so useless that they could not even score in a brothel but that being said old alister bored very much the grass of new lands with this game pattern. de jongh and JDV are the very definition of flat track bulleys so we will have to wait and see who gets picked and where

Mozart

To drop Jean De Villiers  is out of the question.   What is the problem here is what do we do at 13 and what must we do with the wing position after repeated failures by Hougaard.   Surely we cannot keep a failed player in the  team indefnitely? 

At 13 - we have to my mind only two options and those are to keep Taute in that position or select De Jongh in 13 and move Taute to replace the other failure - Kirchner - and have a  player useless in attacking rugby ay 13.

I think Kirchner and Hougaard should be sent packing - but the resultant selections would all be really second rate.

I am looking at the mumbo-jumbo of Saffex about the above.   He obviously would insist that Hougaard should be played at scrummie - with Vermaak on the bench and Pienaar at full back - silly stuff really.  

Carpet
Its fair to say De Jongh outplayed Jordaan in CC final, no need for him to be in the squad at all. i'll give Jordaan time to develop first.

well to be fair you should only judge a player over a course of a season and from the super rugby comp through out the cc jordaan was more consistent than de jongh. de jongh's try was nothing amazing but much rather poor cohesion on defence.

de jongh has more expierience but i do think jordaan has more scope to develop into something more. i do feel he should be at least chosen in the squad