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FORUM / RUGBY /  Jean's defensive lapses, and possible AB forward pass

Jean's defensive lapses, and possible AB forward pass

Started by Pakie18 REPLIES234 VIEWS· 05 Oct 2014, 17:22
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PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
05 Oct 2014, 17:22
#1
05 Oct 2014, 17:22#1

Jean's penchant for shooting out of the line assisted in two tries on Saturday. First, Fekitoa's try, where Jean shot up, leaving a huge gap for Fek. In his defense, the All Blacks had a substantial overlap outside, so this was a desperation move to cut off the pass outside. Still, it was too early, they had too much space to maneuver around him and in the end it made the score simpler than it should have been.




Next, Ben Smith's try. At first look I was blaming Serfontein solely for missing Conrad Smith, but after looking at the try again I saw that Jean was defending in the 13 channel. Conrad was Jean's man, and Jean simply shot up too wide, like he was looking to intercept a possible quick release from Conrad, instead of staying on his man. Easy step on the inside for Conrad. This time there was no crisis outside. It was man on man. An unforced blunder. Serf should still have nailed "old man" Conrad though, who clearly isn't as "past it" as some would have us believe.



And then, in the same try, and interesting tidbit. The Barrett (A - position when passing) pass to Conrad (B - position when pass is fielded) appears to be a yard or two forward. I'm improvising angles, but it definitely looks suspicious. Just a little bite to chew on for the AB supporters whining about the last penalty. You may have gotten a RAT (ref-assisted try)



Your thoughts ladies and gentlemen, are welcome.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
05 Oct 2014, 17:31
#2
05 Oct 2014, 17:31#2

I had exactly the same reaction to the two tries.....Jean shot up too quickly in the first, but he had to do something to stop the overlap and trust the defence inside him would take care of the inside step. If the pass was made it was an easy overlap run in.

 

 

The second case was more of an issue......it almost seems like a nervous reaction these days when he shoots up. Jean defends 12 channel much better, and this swapping doesn't help. Remember when O Driscoll beat him to the outside during his Irish stint....13 is not his comfort zone.

 

 

That said your point on Steppie is right....he had enough time to make the tackle on Smith but was badly beaten through the outside gap. My guess is this is why Jean is at 13....pace and also the ability to bring up the defence. But the arrangement looks very vulnerable.

 

Never saw the forward pass, good spot.

JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
05 Oct 2014, 17:34
#3
05 Oct 2014, 17:34#3
 I don't see any forward pass.
 It's all about the angle of the photo, the direction of the earth's rotation & the blazzing speed of Conrad, lol Isn't this what Moz told us in describing the angle of the hands, on another ooccasion
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
05 Oct 2014, 17:43
#4
05 Oct 2014, 17:43#4
 Mozart
Jean missede the tackles - so blame  Serfontein for the tries being scored - standard Mozart piss-pot logic.   Sorry - but it is clear that De Villiers defense has dete riorated this year - a quick check indicated he made 42 tackles in the RC and missed 12That means a missed tackle ratio of 22,2% - which is too high for an international center.   
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
05 Oct 2014, 17:50
#5
05 Oct 2014, 17:50#5
So are you saying Serfontein never missed Smith?
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
05 Oct 2014, 17:55
#6
05 Oct 2014, 17:55#6
 I am not saying anything about any other player than de Villiers.   His defense was poor yesterday and the second trophy for missed tackles is given to Hsndriks - but if you were logical at all - which you never are - then you should have noted that the topic here is centering on Jean.     
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
05 Oct 2014, 18:13
#7
05 Oct 2014, 18:13#7
So both Pakie and I have made the point Jean was culpable in that instance. I repeat my question, are you saying Serfontein never missed Smith? 
PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
05 Oct 2014, 18:21
#8
05 Oct 2014, 18:21#8
I think Serf has one big weakness: slow off the mark. I agree that this midfield defensive setup looks vulnerable.

I can't take credit for spotting the forward pass, the NZ commentators questioned it in one of the replays in the highlight reel I used, so that's what prompted me to take a closer look.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
05 Oct 2014, 18:57
#9
05 Oct 2014, 18:57#9
 Pakie 
Just one thing - there apparantly is a programme where you can see the motion immediately befpore and after the phto was taken - one of my friends mentioned this to me and I thought I would  bring it to your attention.   You can google the process under Dynamic Still Photography.   I am not sure it would work from vido clips - but try it out - it may just clarify some contentious issues.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
05 Oct 2014, 19:07
#10
05 Oct 2014, 19:07#10
 Mozart
Serfontein definitely missed two tackles on Saturday - so I am not saying he did not miss a tackle or two tackles on Smith.  He definitely did.  
 However, what I do know is that when Serfontein was discussed on the SKy Rugby programme in New Zealand Christian Cullen referred to Serfontein as an exceptionally good player and that he impressed him with his defense in previous games.   His missed tackle ratio is way below that of De Villiers  in the RC series at 11,66% over the whole series in games he started in.   That is by all accounts an acceptable missed tackle ratio.   
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
05 Oct 2014, 19:53
#11
05 Oct 2014, 19:53#11
 Yep Jean has a history of messing up with his rushes - we saw the same with the Barrett try last year.
Rushing out breaks the defensive line and offsets those left to clear up the mess. That split second of having to adjust your initial defending alignment is enough to throw your balance which is what happened to Morne and JJ last year against Barrett after the failed Jean rush.
The same happened to Serfontein who ended up going high on Smith as he was not aligned to effect a conventional tackle. Given how good his defence is, it's clear the Jean rush threw him and forced him to go high.
Old man Jean is a yard behind test match tempo, Matfield, Bakkies and co are the same. Time to move on
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
05 Oct 2014, 20:54
#12
05 Oct 2014, 20:54#12
Steppie was beaten for pace or perhaps as Pakie suggests, for acceleration. The fact was he had a perfectly good opportunity to take down " old man " Smith...but Smith gassed him through the outside gap, just as Henry Speith gassed him....but Smith is hardly a speed merchant.
The facts are plain.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
05 Oct 2014, 20:57
#13
05 Oct 2014, 20:57#13
 The only facts that are plain is that Jean is a spent force and his defensive lapses keep costing the Boks.
Jan s miss had nothing to do with pace and everything to do with Jean stuffing up AGAIN
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
05 Oct 2014, 20:59
#14
05 Oct 2014, 20:59#14
 This ithread dealt with the defensive problems of Jean - and Mozart felt uncomfortable to discuss the issue - so it was diverted to Serfontein.   Look get back to that threat and stop maligning Serfontein - he was the object of enough lies from your side already.  Try another stunt to divert the attention away from Jean.    
SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
05 Oct 2014, 21:15
#15
05 Oct 2014, 21:15#15
 Ditto what Mike said, stop slithering around the topic Mozart.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
05 Oct 2014, 21:26
#16
05 Oct 2014, 21:26#16
As usual honesty is impossible for the discredited three. Smith gassed Steppie through the outside gap regardless of what Jean did. He has a problem with pace and 13 is a bridge too far. Maybe 12, especially if Pollard is providing the penetration. But we need to do better at 13.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
05 Oct 2014, 21:54
#17
05 Oct 2014, 21:54#17
 Ah so there is no honesty in the fact that Jean keeps stuffing up. Just because a prejudicial pig like yourself tells us that Jan was gassed,  we are meant to believe that?  This despite viewing the very passage of play a few times and knowing your pathetic ignorant and childish prejudice you gave against Jan in the first place. 
Your arrogance and ignorance knows no boundaries. Get real old man. As the thread heading clearly says....Jeans defensive lapses cost us two tries....add that to the Barrett try last year.
There is a common denominator here....you work out who that is
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
05 Oct 2014, 22:17
#18
05 Oct 2014, 22:17#18
Sapp 2/7 you will give yourself a conniption.....remember that weight. It isn't healthy to get so angry.  
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
05 Oct 2014, 22:42
#19
05 Oct 2014, 22:42#19
 Beats the hell out of hating black people Moffie....you should be ashamed. Maybe you could get Beenkop to pray for your salvation.
Tell me Moffie did you live in the deep south back in the States?
— END OF THREAD —

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