According to the Stormers mag the fastest Stormer in 2012 was Habana at 4.77 for the 40, followed by Jean at 4.8 and Aplon at 4.83.
Among the strongest relative to body weight was de Jongh with bench press and squats 1.7 times his body weight.
The data is a little old now, but even back then we were hearing Jean is slow and de Jongh is weak. My guess is they are still right up there.
Flash it was for forwards and backs, but the backs pressed more relative to their body weight. Kitshoff for example did the heaviest squat at 260 kgs.
Bench pressing and speed aplenty - but Juan has an extremely poor record in making line breaks and scoring tries and an even worse record in defence - fancy descriptions to explain that away won't help.
Spies's gym performance is extraordinary - but his field play is seriously deficient and so is De Jongh's, Good gym work do help in enhancing performances - but what really counts is the performances on the field of play. .
Sun the only ignorance that abounds is with you.......Bismark widely regarded as the best 2 in the game is technically flawed in your opinion......wow.
If you were in touch with modern test rugby, you would not be stating that de Jongh at 88kg is physical enough for 13......its simply not the case.......he is a good 7kg too light and it shows in traffic.
He is not able to impose himself physically both on attack or in defence........he is easily carried and driven backwards.
He is good defensively and on attack in open play.......something that only materialises in 30% of a test match.......so for 70% of the time, de Jongh is a liability
This is all evidenced by the fact that you just don't find 88kg outside centres playing test rugby.
Fourie 105kg, JJ 95kg
Kurandrani 100kg, Ashley Cooper 98kg
Conrad Smith 95kg
Tuilangi 110kg, Burrell 102kg
Basteraud 112kg
Jonathan Davies 100kg, Scott Williams 100kg
O'Driscoll 95kg
You get the picture?????
Sun Tzu
Are you in fact living in a dream world where reality is transformed into illusions? When you talk about De Jongh you start hallucinating.
Leys analyse the following load of garbage properly:-
"Now, de Jongh. He doesn't create linebreaks? In a team that ranks bottom for backplay, you expect linebreaks? How clueless can you get? He is not physical enough to fulfill the duties of a modern 12, but at 13 there is no problem. His head-on defence and lateral defence are in fact top quality; the best since Fourie and better than Joubert and Fleck. His speed is excellent, his hands are very good, he can weave and step, he has very good awareness and very calm under pressure. His positioning is very sound. He is an overall very accomplished 13, what more is there that you could possibly want? Another dud like JJ?"
Problem 1
" His head-on defence and lateral defence are in fact top quality"
This from a player with a missed tackle ratio of 28% in Super 15 in 2013 is indeed rich. He had the worst defensive stats of any 13 in SA in 2013. Mozart - another admirer - had to dream up a reason for all those missed tackles - and what he produced was hilarious. How do you explain all those missed tackles? This is the main reason why he should never play rugby above Vodacom Cup level.
Problem 2
"his hands are very good, he can weave and step, he has very good awareness and very calm under pressure?
His hands are very good? In 2012 his main problem is the number of balls he knocked on and his tendency to lose balls in tackle situations. Examples are ample. Take for instance the Aussie test in Pretoria - where there was a long breakaway and Pienaar was tackled near the tryline. It was unfortunate that De Jongh was the nearest player - because he fluffed the ball and a try scoring opportunity went missing. In the Murrayfield test - the first ball passed to him with an excellent tryscoring opportunity looming - he knocked on.
In 2012 he was far too often penalized for hanging onto balls in tackle situations in Super 15 and was a drag on the team from that perspective. It shows anything but calmness in ball playing. He did improve slightly in the relevant regard in 2013.
Sure he has got very good awareness - the stats in the Scotland and England tests in 2012 showed excellent awareness how to go missing in the games and not get involved in anything at all. His name was on the team sheet and for the rest he did virtually bugger all.
In 2013 De Jongh was rated as the 23rd best centre in Super 15 - which shows where he is in the hierarchy of centers
What more can you want? An acceptable no 13 - not a dud like De Jongh - he is a player that should not play in Super 15. V odacom Cup remains the top of his capacities.
Mozart
Frankly I do not know. I said from the word go that the issue should be considered with due regard to performances in Super 15.
Frankly - Fourie is not he answer and I have question marks as to Engelbrecht as well. What I do know is that both Fourie and Engelbrecht showed some elements of acceptable 13 play - in the tests played by De Jongh on 2012 and in Super 15 he showed zero or near to zero capacity. That rules him out - he had opportunities to play in tests in 2012 and was a complete loss.
So lets hope there are some clarity in 2013 Super 15. There is no doub t that there are key positions that needs to be sorted out and those include flyhalf, no 13 and no 7 and we need a top scrummie as well.
Yes it's a compromise situation. But we can't have JJ unless he learns to tackle low.
Sun Tzu
You are a funny guy, De Jongh's missed tackle ratio in Super 15 last year was 28% - in other words he missed nearly one in every three attempted tackles. That is nearly 20% more than is acceptable.
De Jongh will "not blowing our campaign with fluff tackles" - this about a player who fluffed more tackles than any other center in SA on Super 15 level in 2013, What will happen on test level - if he is that poor on Super 15 level?
Will he play another vanishing trick like he did at Twickenham? We are lucky though - Meyer at last saw what De Jongh produces and he is OUT of consideration at present.
Rooinek
I actually like this guy Sun Tzu. J is so stupid that a person needs to have special sympathy for him. A player failed as a tackler in Super 15 - but he is a proven defender in tests - that is according to him. He also have the weirdest ideas about players - something like Bismarck being according to him not good enough and Morne being the best flyhalf since 1992.
When facts and examples are quoted to the contrary - he does not deal with it - he ignores it and uses even more flowery language to describe the virtues of his favoured players.
With him facts do not count - cloud 9 matters.
Mozart
This thread reminds me a lot about the newspaper reports on Luke Watson doing bench presses of 140 kgs - spread all over the newspapers by Cheeky - White wanted to have a fit about those reports.
Did that in any way help in the performance of Luke Watson?????????
You are really going bananas about a player not worth his salt here. The sooner you realize that De Jong really is not up to standard performance - wise the better
No CHICKEN, its simple I'm inclined to believe the stats quoted from his current club......its that simple, but I don't expect you to grasp this simple fact
No, Moz, we have seen plenty of Fofana and de Jongh........not glimpses.......the photo's of both pretty much tell the story as well.
de Jongh is a thin little guy, Fofana is not
