....he makes 2. The Bools need to try something different at 13.
Captain49,914 posts
05 Apr 2014, 17:03
#1
05 Apr 2014, 17:03#1
JJ makes more than one metre
Started by Mozart54 REPLIES1,089 VIEWS· 05 Apr 2014, 17:03
Pro1,044 posts
06 Apr 2014, 03:52
#2
06 Apr 2014, 03:52#2
How many cuddles did he make this week?
Pro1,978 posts
06 Apr 2014, 05:21
#3
06 Apr 2014, 05:21#3
Whats the go with Stokkies Hanekom? Perhaps the Bulls could try swindle a loan deal there with the Lions if they are not going to utilize him or maybe even Tyler Fisher from the Sharks ..For the good of SA rugby and to immediately benefit the Bulls campaign as the way its looking, Bulls and Sharks are gona be the only ones flying the SA flag this year.
What a turn around from last year when the Cheetahs and Stormers were doing well.
What a turn around from last year when the Cheetahs and Stormers were doing well.
Coach57,555 posts
06 Apr 2014, 08:54
#4
06 Apr 2014, 08:54#4
boklogic
Ther is more wrong with the Stormers than meets the eye. There are serious problems with their team and one has to start with the full back. I have never seen Taute doing anything right since his return after injury. He is an embarrassment.
Their flyhalf problems have not been solved - both Grant and Catrakilis have not met requirements.
Their loosie combination are all wrong. Both their flank forwards yesterday was not up to standard. Whenever they play Fourie at hooker their scrumming goes backwards = he does not provide the scrum support required from a hooker.
Their locks tried their heart out - but Rhodes is not really a lock, he is a loosie. All in all they need a drastic upgrade in players in key positions and the upgrade is just not possible without return of key injured players.
In the absence of Aplon I would rather play EW Viljoen at full back - Taute is a dead loss. There is no real problems with their wing and center combinations/ Their flyhalf problem is apparently impossible to solve - they really need some real change there.
Their flank forwards are a nightmare - bad news that one. Burger is injury prone and won't last long enough to be successful. I would hope that Steenkamp and Etzebeth come back soon = Botha is a good enough lock back up. I would move Rhodes to 7 and when Elstadt is available play him from the bench. Fourie has been very disappointing this year, but I would play him at 6.
They urgently need a hooker that also contribute to scrumming - that remains a serious problem. In the absence of Liebenberg they should rather use Bezuidenhout.
Smal has a bigger job than he may have bargained for- hopefully he can do something about it.
Insofar as the Cheetahs is concerned I think they are on the up and will play better as from now. They have had a problem with some players like Labuschagne carrying niggles - but am unfotunate to have lost Van der Walt with an injury. And they must forget about Mnisi - he is an embarrassment.
Ther is more wrong with the Stormers than meets the eye. There are serious problems with their team and one has to start with the full back. I have never seen Taute doing anything right since his return after injury. He is an embarrassment.
Their flyhalf problems have not been solved - both Grant and Catrakilis have not met requirements.
Their loosie combination are all wrong. Both their flank forwards yesterday was not up to standard. Whenever they play Fourie at hooker their scrumming goes backwards = he does not provide the scrum support required from a hooker.
Their locks tried their heart out - but Rhodes is not really a lock, he is a loosie. All in all they need a drastic upgrade in players in key positions and the upgrade is just not possible without return of key injured players.
In the absence of Aplon I would rather play EW Viljoen at full back - Taute is a dead loss. There is no real problems with their wing and center combinations/ Their flyhalf problem is apparently impossible to solve - they really need some real change there.
Their flank forwards are a nightmare - bad news that one. Burger is injury prone and won't last long enough to be successful. I would hope that Steenkamp and Etzebeth come back soon = Botha is a good enough lock back up. I would move Rhodes to 7 and when Elstadt is available play him from the bench. Fourie has been very disappointing this year, but I would play him at 6.
They urgently need a hooker that also contribute to scrumming - that remains a serious problem. In the absence of Liebenberg they should rather use Bezuidenhout.
Smal has a bigger job than he may have bargained for- hopefully he can do something about it.
Insofar as the Cheetahs is concerned I think they are on the up and will play better as from now. They have had a problem with some players like Labuschagne carrying niggles - but am unfotunate to have lost Van der Walt with an injury. And they must forget about Mnisi - he is an embarrassment.
Club Pro713 posts
06 Apr 2014, 13:32
#5
06 Apr 2014, 13:32#5
It's amazing but the Bulls haven't had a true or quality 13 since... I don't actually recall one off the top of my head! They relied on Kirchner coming into the line to compensate for that but now they haven't got that weapon.
Captain49,914 posts
06 Apr 2014, 19:12
#6
06 Apr 2014, 19:12#6
The Bools centre pair has made the least contribution to their team of any of the 5 teams. Guys like Mapoe, Sadie de Jongh, Jordaan , Watermeyer and Fransie have all made good contributions....what have JJ and Serfontein actually done that mattered a damn?
As for the Stormers pack, their biggest issue yesterday was the front row. Malherbe struggled and Kishoff was worked by Robinson. The try by Phipps came directly from Malherbe being folded back. A caution for those who think Kitshoff and Malherbe are the future Bok pairing.
As for the Stormers pack, their biggest issue yesterday was the front row. Malherbe struggled and Kishoff was worked by Robinson. The try by Phipps came directly from Malherbe being folded back. A caution for those who think Kitshoff and Malherbe are the future Bok pairing.
Coach57,555 posts
06 Apr 2014, 20:14
#7
06 Apr 2014, 20:14#7
Mozart
As a persobn who plated as a hooker I do believe I understand how the emchanics work in that position and in the front row. If a hooker and the locks do not provide support - no prop will be able to be effective.
There is a problem with the Stormers lock and Fourie is incapable to provide support in scrumming. You apparently blame the props all the time - but does not know nor look at deficient support provided by the locks and hooker.
The problem is that Fourie has never provided support to the props and Rhodes is a loosie not a lock. So you can carry on blaming the props for the problem in sheer ignorance - but that is fairly normal with you.
As a persobn who plated as a hooker I do believe I understand how the emchanics work in that position and in the front row. If a hooker and the locks do not provide support - no prop will be able to be effective.
There is a problem with the Stormers lock and Fourie is incapable to provide support in scrumming. You apparently blame the props all the time - but does not know nor look at deficient support provided by the locks and hooker.
The problem is that Fourie has never provided support to the props and Rhodes is a loosie not a lock. So you can carry on blaming the props for the problem in sheer ignorance - but that is fairly normal with you.
Captain49,914 posts
06 Apr 2014, 22:46
#8
06 Apr 2014, 22:46#8
Disagree the Stormers props with Etzebeth, Elstadt and Vermeulen behind them couldn't scrum either. As usual you are protecting your picks....but they are very ordinary scrummagers
Pro1,870 posts
07 Apr 2014, 04:48
#9
07 Apr 2014, 04:48#9
JJ
560 minutes played31 runs
6 tackles bust2 linebreaks
JDJ
179 minutes played9 runs10 tackles bust4 linebreaks
JDJ is playing hungry and just coming into his prime at 26. Hope he keeps up the good form - we need some explosiveness in the centers.
560 minutes played31 runs
6 tackles bust2 linebreaks
JDJ
179 minutes played9 runs10 tackles bust4 linebreaks
JDJ is playing hungry and just coming into his prime at 26. Hope he keeps up the good form - we need some explosiveness in the centers.
Coach57,555 posts
07 Apr 2014, 07:16
#10
07 Apr 2014, 07:16#10
oimatey
I have no problem with De Jongh's ball carries - but there is something missing as well, namely his tendency to lose possession of the ball. It happened 5 times in the last two matches - that is a real negative and not good enough.
Although early indications are that his defense improved since last year - his tendency to lose possession of balls is more evident than it was last year. However, it is early days and we might see more of what he has to show in the rest of Super 15.
Engelbrecht was a serious disappointment this year and everyone will show more effective carries than he did. So that really was not a case to compare. Have a look at playing times, the number of carries and the distances gained by Sadie and Jordaan as well - and you will find they were far more effective than Engalbrecht was as well.
I have no problem with De Jongh's ball carries - but there is something missing as well, namely his tendency to lose possession of the ball. It happened 5 times in the last two matches - that is a real negative and not good enough.
Although early indications are that his defense improved since last year - his tendency to lose possession of balls is more evident than it was last year. However, it is early days and we might see more of what he has to show in the rest of Super 15.
Engelbrecht was a serious disappointment this year and everyone will show more effective carries than he did. So that really was not a case to compare. Have a look at playing times, the number of carries and the distances gained by Sadie and Jordaan as well - and you will find they were far more effective than Engalbrecht was as well.
Captain30,741 posts
07 Apr 2014, 11:38
#11
07 Apr 2014, 11:38#11
So Moz given the amount of ball JJ is receiving, what else do you expect him to do.......you really need to try get a grip with what actually takes place in the game
At least JJ makes his tackles unlike useless de Jongh who's ability to miss one on one tackles is becoming a joke
Coach57,555 posts
07 Apr 2014, 12:00
#12
07 Apr 2014, 12:00#12
Mozart
What are you talking about? BS as per normal about scrumming.
What are you talking about? BS as per normal about scrumming.
Captain49,914 posts
07 Apr 2014, 15:47
#13
07 Apr 2014, 15:47#13
Dave if the other Bools thought JJ was going to do something with the ball.....they would get it to him. Or more to the point, he would go and find it, as good centres do. But he remains stuck at his post, with zero sense of the game around him. A robot
Captain30,741 posts
07 Apr 2014, 18:18
#14
07 Apr 2014, 18:18#14
Rubbish, a centre has a duty to be in position and attack when given the opportunity......it is not down to him to dictate the gameplan.....the fact that the Bulls play a narrow boring game, dictated by the crash bash and boot......has stuff all to do with JJ and the rest of the outside backs.
If you could bring yourself to being honest with the Bulls game then you would know that not once did JJ receive the ball in space as de Jongh or Sadie did.....its just the way the Bulls play it.......Basson, Ndungane and JJ receive so little good ball to work with and that is the Bulls way.
Captain49,914 posts
07 Apr 2014, 18:41
#15
07 Apr 2014, 18:41#15
Dave this has now become a test of your judgement. So after this weekend you say de Jongh is useless and JJ just unlucky. What does that say about your judgement.....that you can't let go.
You have never said a negative word about Jantjies, Taute, JJ or Serfontein. But they have all played poorly if not disastrously.
I on the other hand have said Jordaan had some fine games, given Lood and Lappies credit last Saturday and conceded Hougaard seems to be finding his feet.
One's comments have to be consistent with what everybody else sees, otherwise you are a prophet or a guy with his head in the sand. Hows the breathing down there?
Coach57,555 posts
07 Apr 2014, 19:22
#16
07 Apr 2014, 19:22#16
Mozart
I really believe that Saffex is right about one aspect mentioned - namely the Bulls way of playing. Serfontein is used as a battering ram - a role he is not suitable for. It is destroying the youngster. If he was playing for the Cheetahs or even the Sharks - the situation would be vastly different.
However, I am not surprised at all about that. The Bulls are the only side with a forward as an attack and backline coach. I know that Matfield was always moonlighting in the backline - but it is evident that he knows nothing about backline play and to expect any other form of play from the Blues backline with him as backline coach is totally unrealistic.
Incidentally I hope you noticed that after the Hurricanes fiasco Francois Steyn - after a probable tongue lashing from White - is now passing the ball to outside players more frequently. He tried the same battering ram approach in that game with as little success as the Bulls is achieving with Serfontein. The moral of the story is that inside centers are not supposed to be battering rams - it may have worked years ago - but it just does not work anymore. Backline coaches should be people with good knowledge of backline play - not a forward with no experience of backline play.
I really believe that Saffex is right about one aspect mentioned - namely the Bulls way of playing. Serfontein is used as a battering ram - a role he is not suitable for. It is destroying the youngster. If he was playing for the Cheetahs or even the Sharks - the situation would be vastly different.
However, I am not surprised at all about that. The Bulls are the only side with a forward as an attack and backline coach. I know that Matfield was always moonlighting in the backline - but it is evident that he knows nothing about backline play and to expect any other form of play from the Blues backline with him as backline coach is totally unrealistic.
Incidentally I hope you noticed that after the Hurricanes fiasco Francois Steyn - after a probable tongue lashing from White - is now passing the ball to outside players more frequently. He tried the same battering ram approach in that game with as little success as the Bulls is achieving with Serfontein. The moral of the story is that inside centers are not supposed to be battering rams - it may have worked years ago - but it just does not work anymore. Backline coaches should be people with good knowledge of backline play - not a forward with no experience of backline play.
Captain49,914 posts
07 Apr 2014, 20:10
#17
07 Apr 2014, 20:10#17
Ja well it's just odd that Basson, Potgieter, Visser and now even Pollard are finding the gaps. Hell Pollard cut through in situation when Serf would have just crashed. Nobody expects him to find the defender....he just does with unerring accuracy.
These are two very poor centres.
These are two very poor centres.
Coach57,555 posts
07 Apr 2014, 22:10
#18
07 Apr 2014, 22:10#18
Mozart
Sorry but when Steyn does the same thing - it is OK, if Serfontein does it is not. The issue is that you must never use 12's as only as battering rams. When Steyn did the that against the Hurricanes - he did not repeat it later on and started to pass balls more frequently - it is clear that he did not have the blessing of the coach for that idiocy. In the case of the Bulls it happens week after week - so it is clear Serfontein is told by Matfield exactly what is expected from him - battering ram stuff.
I stay with my comments - a forward should never be a backline coach for any team.
Sorry but when Steyn does the same thing - it is OK, if Serfontein does it is not. The issue is that you must never use 12's as only as battering rams. When Steyn did the that against the Hurricanes - he did not repeat it later on and started to pass balls more frequently - it is clear that he did not have the blessing of the coach for that idiocy. In the case of the Bulls it happens week after week - so it is clear Serfontein is told by Matfield exactly what is expected from him - battering ram stuff.
I stay with my comments - a forward should never be a backline coach for any team.
Captain49,914 posts
07 Apr 2014, 23:55
#19
07 Apr 2014, 23:55#19
Serfontein is not strong enough to play the power inside centre.....Steyn is. Frans can offload in the tackle. I hear you and Dave saying he can't make a break because he has been instructed to just take contact. Really? It's so implausible when both Potgieter and Pollard have been celebrated for finding space and scoring running tries. Actually implausible is probably a bit generous....it's sounds like bs.
Coach57,555 posts
08 Apr 2014, 00:33
#20
08 Apr 2014, 00:33#20
Mozart
You are talking crap again - when will you stop? Steyn played the "power game" but he loses ball possession and give away more penalties in the process than anyone else. So what value is the so-called power game? Steyn may be physically stronger - but his power game is crap - and that is a matter of fact. "Frans can off-load in the tackle"- but the fact is he never did so that does not sound like BS - it is BS.
Fact is that center play should not consist solely of what you call the power game - it should be varied. After the Hurricanes game Steyn has started to pass the ball a bit more often to players outside of him. It is clear White is not happy with him playing like he did in the Hurricanes game - hence the change.
However, it is very clear that Serfontein plays strictly according to instruction from his backline coach - if that was the case it would not happen game after game after game. That is the unfortunate fact that the Bulls have a clueless backline and attack coach - who should never have been in that position.
You are talking crap again - when will you stop? Steyn played the "power game" but he loses ball possession and give away more penalties in the process than anyone else. So what value is the so-called power game? Steyn may be physically stronger - but his power game is crap - and that is a matter of fact. "Frans can off-load in the tackle"- but the fact is he never did so that does not sound like BS - it is BS.
Fact is that center play should not consist solely of what you call the power game - it should be varied. After the Hurricanes game Steyn has started to pass the ball a bit more often to players outside of him. It is clear White is not happy with him playing like he did in the Hurricanes game - hence the change.
However, it is very clear that Serfontein plays strictly according to instruction from his backline coach - if that was the case it would not happen game after game after game. That is the unfortunate fact that the Bulls have a clueless backline and attack coach - who should never have been in that position.
Captain49,914 posts
08 Apr 2014, 00:38
#21
08 Apr 2014, 00:38#21
So it's all the backline coach's fault.... hard to credit, but when you are a government employee OOM, I suppose the mind gets a little calcified.
Coach57,555 posts
08 Apr 2014, 00:49
#22
08 Apr 2014, 00:49#22
Mozart
Your mind is calcified. Do you really believe that a player does not play according to instruction by the coach? If a player repeatedly played the same way in game after game and the coach instructed otherwise - do you really believe that the said player will not be benched or even dropped from the team?
This has been happening in the case of Serfontein in every game he played - so it is absolutely clear that he plays according to instruction.
In his Under 20 days Serfontein showed ball sense - he would not play like he does without instruction - he is not stupid.
The way he plays does not fit his physique - neither does it benefit his team.
Your mind is calcified. Do you really believe that a player does not play according to instruction by the coach? If a player repeatedly played the same way in game after game and the coach instructed otherwise - do you really believe that the said player will not be benched or even dropped from the team?
This has been happening in the case of Serfontein in every game he played - so it is absolutely clear that he plays according to instruction.
In his Under 20 days Serfontein showed ball sense - he would not play like he does without instruction - he is not stupid.
The way he plays does not fit his physique - neither does it benefit his team.
Captain49,914 posts
08 Apr 2014, 01:20
#23
08 Apr 2014, 01:20#23
I ts absolutely clear he plays to his strength....an inside step. He doesn't really have the pace to crack the outside gap...he can't stand in the tackle....he can't kick tactically. What else does that leave him but crash ball and reset. Be specific OOOM ...no dodging what do you think he could do the coaches are stopping him from doing....the floor is yours.
Coach57,555 posts
08 Apr 2014, 05:52
#24
08 Apr 2014, 05:52#24
Mozart
So Serfontein does not have the ability to play at inside center? So why is he selected to play there then?
I would be clear - he can pass the ball for one thing. He does not need to run straight at the first defender. He is not entirely as slow as you make him out to be. For instance he will beat Steyn by 10 meters over a 100 meter race.
You have not answered one statement - do you really believe he is not playing according to instructions? That was the way the Bulls have played for years while Meyer was in charge and Meisieklind did that as well. That was the way when Matfield was playing for the Bulls as captain - so why do you think that Serfontein is not instructed to play like that by Matfield as the Bulls backline and attack coach?
Sorry about it - but the Bulls have for years buggered up centers and the list is a long one. Venter and Sadie are typical examples of players who perform better in a different environment. The moment the players are out of that sick environment - they perform better. I would indeed be surprised if Serfontein does not realise by now that the Bulls are destroying his career as a player. The sooner Serfontein realizes he should get out - the better it would be for his career. .
So Serfontein does not have the ability to play at inside center? So why is he selected to play there then?
I would be clear - he can pass the ball for one thing. He does not need to run straight at the first defender. He is not entirely as slow as you make him out to be. For instance he will beat Steyn by 10 meters over a 100 meter race.
You have not answered one statement - do you really believe he is not playing according to instructions? That was the way the Bulls have played for years while Meyer was in charge and Meisieklind did that as well. That was the way when Matfield was playing for the Bulls as captain - so why do you think that Serfontein is not instructed to play like that by Matfield as the Bulls backline and attack coach?
Sorry about it - but the Bulls have for years buggered up centers and the list is a long one. Venter and Sadie are typical examples of players who perform better in a different environment. The moment the players are out of that sick environment - they perform better. I would indeed be surprised if Serfontein does not realise by now that the Bulls are destroying his career as a player. The sooner Serfontein realizes he should get out - the better it would be for his career. .
sharkbok
Captain23,295 posts
Captain23,295 posts
08 Apr 2014, 06:00
#25
08 Apr 2014, 06:00#25
Venter has been average for the Cheetas, I think Ryno Benjamin has easily outplayed him. Sadie is good for the Cheetas, but I thought his cameos for the Stormers were better.
Meisiekind did have some good distribution skills when he used it.
Meisiekind did have some good distribution skills when he used it.
Coach57,555 posts
08 Apr 2014, 06:10
#26
08 Apr 2014, 06:10#26
Sharkbok
The Bulls are the graveyard of centers - whether you liker it or not. Dim Sun said it is surprising that they did not have quality centers for years. He is correct - but there is no way any center can perform in that environment. Venter is doing well enough for the Cheetahs and Sadie was lucky - he got out in time. Both are now five times better than they were when playing for the Bulls.
Both Serfontein and Engelbrecht would do well for their career by getting out of the hole they are in.
The Bulls are the graveyard of centers - whether you liker it or not. Dim Sun said it is surprising that they did not have quality centers for years. He is correct - but there is no way any center can perform in that environment. Venter is doing well enough for the Cheetahs and Sadie was lucky - he got out in time. Both are now five times better than they were when playing for the Bulls.
Both Serfontein and Engelbrecht would do well for their career by getting out of the hole they are in.
Captain49,914 posts
08 Apr 2014, 06:23
#27
08 Apr 2014, 06:23#27
So Serfontein could pass....that's the best you can come up with? Here's the thing....does he pass better than other centres? I haven't seen it. He can't kick, pass, deceive, see, fend off, accelerate better than other centres. And 90 percent of the time he steps off his right foot. So why should we believe a change in coaching is going to transform his game. This guy was a good junior. Thus far in the big leagues he has been less than ordinary.
Coach57,555 posts
08 Apr 2014, 07:01
#28
08 Apr 2014, 07:01#28
Mozart
Escape clause again. There is no way that the Bulls centers are ever going to perform better under present instructions and game plan. The best thing you can come up with is a wild statement on the guy who "can't kick, pass, deceive, see, fend off, accelerate better than other centres".
Neither could Venter and Sadie do the self-same things in the Bulls environment = yet they can do it now. How come?
Just one thing - you have classified certain functions of the inside centers - so lets look at the capacity of the present inside centers according to those classifications:-
* Kick = Steyn, De Villiers/De Allende, Venter, Swanepoel. Serfontein
* Pass = De Villiers/De Allenmde, Venter, Swanepoel, Serfiontein, Steyn
* Deceive = De Villiers/De Allenmde, Venter, Swanepoel, Steyn, Serfontein
* See = (You mean read the game?) De Villiers/De Allenmde, Swnepoel. Venter, Steyn, Serfontein
* Fend Off = De Villiers/De Allenmde, Swanepoel, Venter, Steyn, Serfontein
* Accelerate = De Villiers/De Allenmde, Swanepoel, Venter, Serfontein, Steyn
The fact is that Steyn and Serfontein are very much on par in the above categories and that is born out by their performances this year, No real differences in their style of play and effectiveness. Steyn's only advantage over Serfontein is his kicking at goal - for the rest their games were both abysmally poor.
I have analysed the performances of Steyn and Serofntein in the two games they played against each other as well and the position statistically was as follows:-
Another Steyn problem noticeable in all games he played in.
Escape clause again. There is no way that the Bulls centers are ever going to perform better under present instructions and game plan. The best thing you can come up with is a wild statement on the guy who "can't kick, pass, deceive, see, fend off, accelerate better than other centres".
Neither could Venter and Sadie do the self-same things in the Bulls environment = yet they can do it now. How come?
Just one thing - you have classified certain functions of the inside centers - so lets look at the capacity of the present inside centers according to those classifications:-
* Kick = Steyn, De Villiers/De Allende, Venter, Swanepoel. Serfontein
* Pass = De Villiers/De Allenmde, Venter, Swanepoel, Serfiontein, Steyn
* Deceive = De Villiers/De Allenmde, Venter, Swanepoel, Steyn, Serfontein
* See = (You mean read the game?) De Villiers/De Allenmde, Swnepoel. Venter, Steyn, Serfontein
* Fend Off = De Villiers/De Allenmde, Swanepoel, Venter, Steyn, Serfontein
* Accelerate = De Villiers/De Allenmde, Swanepoel, Venter, Serfontein, Steyn
The fact is that Steyn and Serfontein are very much on par in the above categories and that is born out by their performances this year, No real differences in their style of play and effectiveness. Steyn's only advantage over Serfontein is his kicking at goal - for the rest their games were both abysmally poor.
I have analysed the performances of Steyn and Serofntein in the two games they played against each other as well and the position statistically was as follows:-
Steyn
0/1
12
8/9/13
25
0
3
0
4
16/4
0/0
2
0/0
Serfontein
0/0
0
4/6/12
63
0
3
0
1
18/5
0/0
1
0/0
Kicking game
Steyn was definitely better in this component of the game. His try assist came from a corner kick gathered by Ndungane and his 12 points from the conversion of four penalties.
Ball carries
Steyn = 13 ball carries
meters gained 25
average gain per carry - 1,92 meters
Serfontein = 12 ball carries
meters gained 63
average gain per carry - 3,25 meters
Serfontein definitely has an edge in this case -= much more effective.
Line Breaks
Both made no line breaks and both beat 3 defenders, No difference here.
Ball Possession Losses
Steyn = 4
Serfontein = 1
A constant poor performance record by Steyn noticeable in all matches he played in.
Missed Tackle Ratio
Steyn = 20%
Serfontein = 21,7%Both were below par
Penalties Given Away
Steyn = 2
Serfontein = 1Another Steyn problem noticeable in all games he played in.
Club Pro441 posts
08 Apr 2014, 07:55
#29
08 Apr 2014, 07:55#29
I really don't understand all the fuss about Franna. He is still a one dimensional crashballer. Even measured against his compatriots Frannas stats are mostly comparable, rarely much better, except for his kicking abilities. The truth about Frannas fantasy resurgence can never be properly expressed if you continue to limit the comparisons to his equally inadequate compatriots. Only when the Franna fantasy is measured against competent players is the facade toppled and the reality revealed.
Pat McCabe and Ryan Crotty Vs Franna.
Pat and Crotty have both scored 2 tries Vs NONE for Franna!
Pat has gained 269 metres/ Crotty has 266 metres Vs (pffffft!) 74 for Franna!
Pat and Crotty have both recorded 9 clean line breaks Vs NONE for Franna!
Pat has beaten 11 defenders/ Crotty has beaten 18 Vs 8 for Franna!
Pat has missed 3 tackles/ Crotty 6 Vs 13 for Franna!
Pat has a 93% tackle success rate/ Crotty 87.2% Vs 75% for Franna!
Pat and Crotty have both conceded the ball 4 times Vs 11 for Franna!
Pat has offloaded the ball 5 times/7 for Crotty Vs 3 for Franna!
Frannas solitary redeeming feature is his ability to kick the ball out of hand and off the tee. Given SA's love affair with penalty goals and drop kicks its fair to say that Franna could be a great addition to the 2014 Bok team but not in the way the fanboys would have us believe...ie.. a dynamic and formidable runner , busting though defences at will and sending wingers down the tramlines with sublime passes and stealthy offloads. Pure hogwash!
Pat McCabe and Ryan Crotty Vs Franna.
Pat and Crotty have both scored 2 tries Vs NONE for Franna!
Pat has gained 269 metres/ Crotty has 266 metres Vs (pffffft!) 74 for Franna!
Pat and Crotty have both recorded 9 clean line breaks Vs NONE for Franna!
Pat has beaten 11 defenders/ Crotty has beaten 18 Vs 8 for Franna!
Pat has missed 3 tackles/ Crotty 6 Vs 13 for Franna!
Pat has a 93% tackle success rate/ Crotty 87.2% Vs 75% for Franna!
Pat and Crotty have both conceded the ball 4 times Vs 11 for Franna!
Pat has offloaded the ball 5 times/7 for Crotty Vs 3 for Franna!
Frannas solitary redeeming feature is his ability to kick the ball out of hand and off the tee. Given SA's love affair with penalty goals and drop kicks its fair to say that Franna could be a great addition to the 2014 Bok team but not in the way the fanboys would have us believe...ie.. a dynamic and formidable runner , busting though defences at will and sending wingers down the tramlines with sublime passes and stealthy offloads. Pure hogwash!
Captain30,741 posts
08 Apr 2014, 11:29
#30
08 Apr 2014, 11:29#30
For a start, Pollard did not find a gap, he burst through tackles......so once again we have anything but reality applied to the situation.
JJ had a quite game because he got little ball and the ball he did get was in traffic. de Jongh got ball in space and used it well. He was good with ball in hand. My issue with him is that he is missing one on one tackles. Its not good enough.
If JJ was receiving plenty of ball in space and making no impression then I would take issue with him.
I am not stupid enough to expect a centre receiving 3 balls in a game in traffic to make an impression. I also know its not the duty of a 13 to roam and go look for work......what would he do, take it up short as his forwards do or kick it at 10 like his flyhalf does.
The Bulls gameplan does not include using their centres to attack......its been the Bulls way for years.......not even a young Danie Gerber or O'Driscoll would make an impression in that Bulls side with that gameplan.
You lot really have no bloody idea at all
Coach57,555 posts
08 Apr 2014, 12:26
#31
08 Apr 2014, 12:26#31
Nukefreekiwi
If there is one issue I agree wholeheartedly with you it is the Francois Steyn one. I have consistently said he is way to poor to play international rugby - his on-site fan club says otherwise. They would come up with platitudes like his "presence" and carry on about his Strong physique. the way he stands up in tackles and off-load balls. his hard and effective tackles, while none of their praise song items are in fact in evidence.
He will not even considered for the B-sides of other international teams - but they swear by him. A "Ship of Fools" in evidence on this site.
If there is one issue I agree wholeheartedly with you it is the Francois Steyn one. I have consistently said he is way to poor to play international rugby - his on-site fan club says otherwise. They would come up with platitudes like his "presence" and carry on about his Strong physique. the way he stands up in tackles and off-load balls. his hard and effective tackles, while none of their praise song items are in fact in evidence.
He will not even considered for the B-sides of other international teams - but they swear by him. A "Ship of Fools" in evidence on this site.
Captain49,914 posts
08 Apr 2014, 14:19
#32
08 Apr 2014, 14:19#32
Tell you what Dave, if all Pollard did was "burst through tackles" I'll settle for that. Ask JJ or Steppie to burst through a few tackles. That would make an entertaining change from them being deposited on the behinds by the first tackler.
Captain49,914 posts
08 Apr 2014, 14:21
#33
08 Apr 2014, 14:21#33
Nook the moment you NZ okes start complaining about one of our players, I know you are worried about him. Bismarck and Fransie just make you nervous....admit it.
Coach57,555 posts
08 Apr 2014, 15:16
#34
08 Apr 2014, 15:16#34
Mozart
Please continue to live in dreamworld. Bismarck is a problem for them - Francois Steyn is a joke they would love to have in the Springbok team. Nothing seems to get you off that one - poor performances does not count. Poor defense - no penetration - low mobility for a backline player - poor passing game - non-existent reading of the game - losing ball possession like it is his mission - donating penalties to the opposition - nothing count because he can kick a few penalties at goal. What a joke .
Can you prove that the above deficiencies are not in existence? Don't repeat "presence" and physical qualities, because there is no evidence he ever uses those two.
By the way they did not fear Steyn in 2012 - why should they fear him now?
Please continue to live in dreamworld. Bismarck is a problem for them - Francois Steyn is a joke they would love to have in the Springbok team. Nothing seems to get you off that one - poor performances does not count. Poor defense - no penetration - low mobility for a backline player - poor passing game - non-existent reading of the game - losing ball possession like it is his mission - donating penalties to the opposition - nothing count because he can kick a few penalties at goal. What a joke .
Can you prove that the above deficiencies are not in existence? Don't repeat "presence" and physical qualities, because there is no evidence he ever uses those two.
By the way they did not fear Steyn in 2012 - why should they fear him now?
Captain30,741 posts
08 Apr 2014, 15:25
#35
08 Apr 2014, 15:25#35
I don't expect JJ or Serfontein to force their way through tackles, they should be given the opportunity to operate in space, but that's not the Bulls way.
Lets not get too excited about Pollard making tackle busts, that was a one off
Captain40,032 posts
08 Apr 2014, 15:26
#36
08 Apr 2014, 15:26#36
I too am convinced both JJ and Serfontein would be much better players if playing for say the Cheethas or Lions.
Jan had excelent vision and distribution skills when he first hit the scene. There is nothing too much wrong with his pace as we saw in a recent game when he covered back to save a try.
The simple facts are that the Bulle, Stormers and even the Sharks do not play to their backline potential. The Boks haven' t for years. It's mostly just flashes of individual brilliance.
Jan had excelent vision and distribution skills when he first hit the scene. There is nothing too much wrong with his pace as we saw in a recent game when he covered back to save a try.
The simple facts are that the Bulle, Stormers and even the Sharks do not play to their backline potential. The Boks haven' t for years. It's mostly just flashes of individual brilliance.
Captain49,914 posts
08 Apr 2014, 15:39
#37
08 Apr 2014, 15:39#37
So I repeat if the centres have all these sublime skills....why do we see Basson, Pollard, Potgieter and Visser making attacking contributions vs nothing from JJ and Steppie. The fact is Serfontein has done nothing in a year. How good he was as a junior maak niks. Habana flourished with the Bools...these chaps are too passive. They aren't going to amount to a hill of beans. I thought Steppie might have something....but honestly Olivier was better, he at least had a good pass.
Coach57,555 posts
08 Apr 2014, 15:42
#38
08 Apr 2014, 15:42#38
Beeno
Spot on with your assessment. There is no way that the Bulls are not the graveyard of center play and the Sharks and Stormers are not far behind.
Spot on with your assessment. There is no way that the Bulls are not the graveyard of center play and the Sharks and Stormers are not far behind.
Captain49,914 posts
08 Apr 2014, 16:39
#39
08 Apr 2014, 16:39#39
So the Lions and Cheetahs are the great nurseries of South African centres? Last Bok centre playing for our nurseries? Jorrie Muller......hahaha. Well I suppose Fury, but he was more of an opportunist ala Willie than a classical centre....and his centre skills improved measurably in CT.
Do you guys really believe this rubbish. Or if it sounds good to you, do you just put your minds in neutral. Get real chaps....imagine a RWC match against NZ with Steppie at 12 and JJ at 13. I don't know about you chaps, but that makes my blood run cold.
Do you guys really believe this rubbish. Or if it sounds good to you, do you just put your minds in neutral. Get real chaps....imagine a RWC match against NZ with Steppie at 12 and JJ at 13. I don't know about you chaps, but that makes my blood run cold.
Coach57,555 posts
08 Apr 2014, 17:55
#40
08 Apr 2014, 17:55#40
Mozart
Why don't you answer the serious issues raised about the Bulls backline coaching and in respect of the performances of Francois Steyn?
What makes my "blood run cold" is if we embark on the way you propose with failed players of the 2011 WC campaign being the key to selection in 2015 and especially when you openly propose players with a proven record of failure in Super 15 this year for no reason other than your personal prejudice.
Why do you concentrate on the failure of Serfontein and Engelbrecht = while you ignore the even worse performance of a player like Francois Steyn? Why do you write up under-oe rforming players as if they are irreplaceable?
Why don't you answer the serious issues raised about the Bulls backline coaching and in respect of the performances of Francois Steyn?
What makes my "blood run cold" is if we embark on the way you propose with failed players of the 2011 WC campaign being the key to selection in 2015 and especially when you openly propose players with a proven record of failure in Super 15 this year for no reason other than your personal prejudice.
Why do you concentrate on the failure of Serfontein and Engelbrecht = while you ignore the even worse performance of a player like Francois Steyn? Why do you write up under-oe rforming players as if they are irreplaceable?
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