JJ, Serfontein and Jean

JJ limped off early on Saturday allowing Serfontein quite a bit of playing time. And once again one can only conclude....Jean is our best centre by a mile. He breaks the line, offloads, makes tackles that count.....and leads the team competently. He is our most valuable player.

JJ looked fast on the long break on Saturday, but tellingly not faster than Willie who ran on his shoulder. Apart from that he made two tackles and beat no defenders in the game. That makes three games in which he hasn't beaten one tackle....there is something wrong with that picture.

Serfontein always beats a few tackles....he can't wait to run at his opponent. But more and more he seems to be running into cul de sacs. He get's tackled in positions where the opposition has a fair shot at the ball.

I'm not sure there is any message here. Up till recently I would have favoured playing Serfontein....but he doesn't seem to be ready yet. He is a similar centre to Tim Horan, probably stronger and faster, but he should st udy how Horan broke down defences....not by charging at them.

JJ is out there somewhere and every now and then he gets space. When that happens he accelerates the backline. I still don't trust his defence and he should get more involved.....but he does provide something.  So in this as well, Meyer probably has it right.

I have a question … can you honestly say that JJ has learnt something from Jean since been chalked up outside him?

Would you say he’s had enough time to pick something of value up over the last while? Has his game subsequently changed for the better because of it or is he still the same boring talentless player that came into the mix?

Would you say that Jean and JJ look comfortable with each other? Is there an understanding between them or does it also look to you as if each is doing his own thing?  

Serfontein has barely had any game time. No proper shot at establishing familiarity with either JJ or Jean.

I rate him highly. He has a solid defense which JJ sadly lacks and his work rate is vastly superior to JJ who tends to stay in his channel and disappear during the match. 

There is no comparison between the two.

I think Meyer has it wrong. I think Meyer needs to bring Serfontein into the starting 15 and allow him to develop a relationship with Jean. He has talent oozing out his ears and every other orifice.

The time to move away from two individuals doing their own thing to a cohesive unit working off each other, both on attack and in defense, is overdue.

Not sure why it's taken Meyer so long to register that his current center pair is just not working.

Mozart & CleanCut

Please - gentleman - it is Monday today - I am calling for peace in the meadow.  You will give my friend Saffex a seizure by raising this issue.   He wants De Villiers out at all costs - as you may have deducted from his numerous posts.

I have no problem with playing Serfontein at either 12 or 13 an think he may be more successful than Engelbrecht.   In secret between us - I prefer Engembreht on the wing.   The reason is Engelbrecht cannot create space - he wants others to do that for him.   I think he  is a physical player - not a player with much ball sense.

Serfontein is a different baby entirely - he will make space for other players and he will be putting in thinking rugby.  That is what distinguish him from others.

All the people talk about Willie le Roux - what makes him different is because he oozes ball sense.   He instinctively try and play differently - a bit of a gamble with a 50% chance of success.   However, it is that 50% that causes problems for the opposition and result in the scoring of tries by his side.  That is why he has such a huge impact and most frequently the player that is critical to scoring of tries by the Boks.

I believe Serfontein has the same ability insofar as ball sense is concerned - an ability not noticeable in Engelbrecht.  With him and le Roux together in the backline - there may be dynamite around.

By the way can you gentlemen remember when I criticized Francois Steyn because of his constant crashballing and poor performance at 12 - how Saffex reproduced a lecture about tight defences and inability of centers to express themselves in creating space.  Wonder what he says now about that issue? 

Sorry - duplication

 I dont think we can really compare the 2. JJ is preparing for 80 mins (or at least 70) and Serfontein is not sure how long he will get.

JJ has time to settle into the test match whereas Jan has to come on and try his hardest to make an impact with much fewer opportunities and this can often lead to making selfish decisions instead of team decisions.

I can imagine he is fighting to be noticed for a starting spot. He is realistically touching the ball maybe 4 or 5 times if he is lucky. He has that much opportunity to be noticed. He needs an extended run. Maybe Jean should be rested on the end of year tour. He will do well with a break and let Serfontein just play. Same with Lambie. Morne must take a break. We need to see how the team is fairing up without the "older" guys.

Boklogic

I watched the full replay of the test on Saturday a second time to see whether my initial assessment and those of the other members on this site is correct.   There is one issue here that you raised - namely the case of Morne Steyn.   Despite what everyone says - Morne had a very average performance.   His kicking game was very poor and as he is entirely predictable there were always Aussies to collect the ball - not the best of performances in any event.   His passing game was also really questionable and while carrying the ball at one stage - he lost possession.  Very average performance at best.

I agree with you that Lambie must be given an opportunity to see what he can produce - but Meyer will never do that in the upcoming test - I would be delighted if Meyer does that - but if Steyn does the same as he did on Saturday I hope he is replaced early.

I once again looked at the loosies in particular and I stay with my assessment - as a unit they did not meet requirements.

Boklogic

I watched the full replay of the test on Saturday a second time to see whether my initial assessment and those of the other members on this site is correct.   There is one issue here that you raised - namely the case of Morne Steyn.   Despite what everyone says - Morne had a very average performance.   His kicking game was very poor and as he is entirely predictable there were always Aussies to collect the ball - not the best of performances in any event.   His passing game was also really questionable and while carrying the ball at one stage - he lost possession.  Very average performance at best.

I agree with you that Lambie must be given an opportunity to see what he can produce - but Meyer will never do that in the upcoming test - I would be delighted if Meyer does that - but if Steyn does the same as he did on Saturday I hope he is replaced early.

I once again looked at the loosies in particular and I stay with my assessment - as a unit they did not meet requirements.

Mozart

I merely responded to a statement made by boklogic - nothing else.   he brought up the issue of Morne and I responded to that one.

Sorry Saffex

You are wrong here about Jean - he was the playmaker that gave the space on Saturday - which ultimately led to the Kirchner try - he made some very good plays throughout the series and is at this stage better as a stabilizer in the backline.    We cannot start with a newbie with very little experience in tests - let Serfontein gain experience - he has time on his side and will sooner rather than later come through to replace Jean.   By all means he should be brought on from the bench earlier rather than later.  

I doubt not that he shall start on Saturday if Engelbrecht cannot play - so he would have ample opportunity to show his capacity on starting level.

 In the meantime Jean is the most important cog in that backline - since Morne is not a playmaker at all - so let Jean start at 12 and for the time being use Serfontein more extensively to give him further experience.

Jean has been good - at present the highest rated center in the RC - nothing solid about him.    

Saffex

Unfortunately you are prejudiced in this case.   Jean did more than Nonu did anytime during  the CR and Smith had his moments - but in most matches he was bog ordinary.   I would  say that Engelbrecht is a good finisher - he is not s creator of much.  

By the way I agree with you about Goosen - Morne is like dead wood in that team - on Saturday he buggered up more than normal - he was piss poor in fact - but Mozart is singing songs about him and obviously Kruger.  Cannot see anything wrong with the latter. 

I would in fact not start with Serfontein at 13 - on Saturday but at 12.   If it is the Springbok ball - he can be at 12 - if the opposition ball - rather let De Villiers face Nonu.

Saffex

I am sorry to disillusion you - but Nonu was aside being a danger for getting crded not up to standard in most matches he played in this year, neither was Smith.  I look at all matches    At this stage the overall ratings based on performance are as follows:-

1   De Villiers

2   Leali'ifano

3   Smith

4   Engelbrecht

5   Ashley-Cooper

6   Bosch

7   Nonu

Please do not let your prejudice against De Viilliers run wild - it makes you look silly.  

Saffex

You better get a grip - the above is not my ratings - it is the sum-total of their performances that counts here - both in defence and attack.   It also looks at other issues - like penalties given away - losing of possession, etc.   I got it from two rating sites and both are in agreement as to the above.  

There is a huge gap in assessments of the players high on the list - and those lower on the list - but it is no good to discuss this issue - because prejudice reign supreme in your case.

Mozart

In the issue of Centers I am horrified that De Jongh may be on the bench for the Springboks on Saturday.   He is no doubt an affirmative action selection and his previous two appearances for the Springboks in the Murrayfield and Twickenham tests were disgracefully poor.

He did nothing but especially in defence was a serious liability for the Stormers this year. After release from the Springbok squad he played a few CC games for the Stormers and he definitely was not the best center on display - being dead average.

The best CC centers thus far this year was Stokkies Hanekom  (unfortunately at present injured), De Allende and Venter.   Even Sadie and Ebersohn was better than De Jongh in the games he played in.   So rating him on CC level leaves the situation as follows:-

1  Hanekom

2  De Allende

3  Venter

4  Ebersohn

5  Sadie

6  De Jongh

How he was selected by Meyer for the Springbok squad is a mystery - the BEE component is the only probable reason.

I would really like to see how Hanekom. De Allende, Venter and a returning Jordaan perform in Super 15 next year.   I think they would all be better than De Jongh in proven performance next year.  

The worst nightmare imaginable is that if Engelbrecht cannot play and one of De Villiers or Serfontein gets injured and De Jongh is brought on to play.   That will mean a guaranteed loss of any attacking or defensive play by he Springboks backline.  The only hope in such an event would be if they rather bring on Lambie and play him at center than to play the utterly useless and hopeless De Jongh.

CancerCunt, go check the run again you ignorant twat, he jinks to offset the defender and then makes a perfect pass to set up the try.

You are too thick to comprehend these subtleties in the game........swoosh over the head.

Hardly a surprise given that pathetic Bok side you gave us. Ignorance of the highest order  

Jean was NOT the best 12 of the past weekend, Nonu was by some distance. The team of the week I saw had Nonu at 12.

That dummy pass and pop to set up the inside runner for a try was sublime