MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
16 Jun 2013, 08:16#1
The enticing vision of a lightning fast 13 faded a bit today. Sure JJ scored a try, but that was 80% the overlap, 19% Willie's timing and 1% JJ. The more important point was JJ's defence, or lack of it, making two of his five attempted tackles.
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More concerning yet, was the Scottish try, that came from him again getting too deep and finding himself trapped and unable to get to the runner.
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This overshooting has happened often enough to be a clear problem. JJ even talked about it recently so it's on his mind. But it seems, under stress, he can't stop doing it. One is reminded of Andrew Gollata pummeling Ridick Bowe's prize possessions whenever he was punched hard. It was involuntary. The question I'm beginning to ponder with JJ is whether this shooting out of line is an involuntary panic reflex.
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In the meantime Serfontein looks smart, comfortable and seemingly without weaknesses. I'd start him next weekend. If we play JJ against top opposition before he has resolved his problem he could lose a test for us, as Taute did last year.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
16 Jun 2013, 16:18#4
JJ was apparently dismissed from the Bok camp last year to work on this problem. So he has apparently been aware of and worked on this shooting out of line issue for almost a whole year. That's not the same as JdV shooting out of line to try to make an intercept if he senses an overlap is developing.
Honestly I can't ever remember seeing this issue in half a century of watching rugby. On the attacking side I would say JJ has made considerable progress. He runs a nice cut and his pace can't be questioned. But yesterday was a step back defensively. Let's be honest.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
16 Jun 2013, 16:20#5
Shezza
I do not rate De Jongh at all - but Mozart does. He believe that although De Jongh I not a test calibre center - he is good enough to be on the bench for the Springboks. I cannot fathom that one at all - If he is not good enough for the starting line-up - he is not good enough for the bench either.
Howevr, despite all the talk - statistically De Jongh has the worst defensive record of any center in Super 15 with failure rat in attempted tackles of circa 30% - compared to the 14% of Engelbrecht.
On the other hand it must be borne in mind that De Villiers constantly received rubbish balls from Steyn and could really not do anything good at inside center. Steyn was atrocious yesterday and signs are all over the show that he is getting back to the disaster he was in the tests last year. He was nott under much pressure last week and scored 5 out of 10 for his performance. This week he was an outright disaster.
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MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
16 Jun 2013, 16:44#7
You can't nail anybody if you have shot past him. There was evidence of that throughout the S15, last week and yesterday it resulted in a try. He needed to be at least two metres back to be able to adjust to the pass, he was lateral to the receiver before he got the ball.. That's what JJ does under pressure. It's a problem.
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
17 Jun 2013, 12:15#9
Disagree 100%, JJ was one of our best backs, that try had everything to do with running the right line at pace. The other few times he ran, he ran well. I don’t recall a single missed tackle, in fact his one tackle lead to a turnover thanks to him man handling the Scot with Kolisi effecting the turnover.
As for that Scot try, JJ had no option other than to rush out as the Scots had men to burn on the outside. JJ had another good game. The real issues were Pienaar at 9 and Morne at 10. Their option taking was piss poor as was their execution. I am also still struggling to understand what the hell Basson is doing in the side.
All in all a pathetic performance by the Boks, thanks to far many passengers in the side and a coach who has no idea how to play modern test rugby. The one shining light was Kolisi’s debut, he was great.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
17 Jun 2013, 13:00#10
Saffex
You never remember anything to do with defence - you never remember a single missed tackle by Engelbrecht - yet he missed three tackles from 5 attempted tackles and was out of line and not defending - when he should not have tried an impossible intercept. Wondeful excuse you have for that one - as per normal.
Engelbrecht has had defense problems in the past and Saturday showed that he has nott adjusted his defense as yet. Much like a wing taking on defence on the same basis as a center. Engelbrecht goes out of line when he should hold the defensive line.
And if he did not score the try after Le Roux drew in the defenders and pass the ball to him with an open line ahead of him - he definitely should not be in the team.
I still say play Serfontein at 12, De Villiers at 13 and Engelbrecht at 14 - that is the best potential backline we have t present and the defense issue would also be cleared up.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
17 Jun 2013, 13:35#12
Actually JJ is mostly not trying to intercept when he comes out of line.....he simply advances far too quickly....you have to be in front of your opponent when he receives the ball. The player himself said he has this problem, a week or so back. So rather than reflexively taking the opposite view to anything I say.....try and learn a bit. There's a good lass.
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
17 Jun 2013, 15:55#13
The only time JJ rushed out was to try prevent that try as he had no other option. The Boks had been sucked in defensively, the Scots had men out wide, had JJ held his line, the Scots centre would have simple shifted the ball on. Its so easy to bang on about JJ rushing at that point, it would be help to look at the picture as a whole.
As for the rest of the match, if the stats say he missed 3 tackles, I am saying those stats are complete bullshit. There was only one other instance and that was when Jean missed the man first and JJ made a second attempt low, that ended with the Scot falling after JJ's half hit. JJ was off balance as he had to readjust after Jean's miss.
For the rest, JJ's defence was spot on and I am more than happy for anyone to prove me wrong and name the instances where JJ missed tackles. I have the game recorded. JJ and Willie were our best backs.
What needs to happen is for the clueless Meyer to dispense with these washed up has beens or never beens like Basson, Jean, Morne, Pienaar, Jannie, Kruger and Spies and start playing in form youngsters that have a hard edge up front and that employ a game plan that does not involve kicking mindless up and unders all day.
Meyer is useless
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
17 Jun 2013, 17:23#14
Saffex
I definitely saw three missed tackles by Engelbrecht and that is confirmed by the stats. My problem remains Engelbrecht is using a wing defence strategy at center - it will never work out. I must emphasize that in the absence of Pietersen - and raking into account the average performance of Basson - they should in the Championship rather use Engelbrecht on the wing. Running at angles he can be a very strong attacking weapon.
I do agree with you about most of the players Meyer is addicted to and that they need to be replaced. However, there is nothing wrong with De Villiers and we need a stabilizing player in the backline.
By the way - when I wrote that I am seeing nervousness on the past of Morne Steyn in the Cheetahs game - Mozart went ballistic. My worry about him was confirmed again on Saturday - when he realty was very poor. If there is to be a repeat of last year - he should be replaced before he does too much damage to the Springbok cause in the Championship series
I am actually hoping that Reinach and Goosen is back for the Championship tests - but there has been no news about either lately. Reinach was supposed to be back middle June and I hope he plays for the Sharks next week. I heard nothing about Goosen since his injury in March - but these injuries normally takes about 6 months after the operation and that means he should be back by early September - I hope.
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
17 Jun 2013, 17:40#15
DomMike you are lying - name the tackles he missed and I will prove you wrong
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
17 Jun 2013, 18:02#16
Saffex
The match in full is bound to be broadcasted again tonight and I will note down when the missed tackles occurred giving the time of the misses to you afterwards. However, the misses were also mentioned in the papers and even in the ratings of the players. Mozart and I agree it did happen as well - so the stats confirm what we have seen happening.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
17 Jun 2013, 22:42#17
Saffex
The three instances `that would be regarded by everybody as missed tackles happened at minutes =
05:33;
42:60;
77:36
The first and third tackles the opposition player went past Engelbrecht attempted tackle and were tackled by other players. The second one was where he made a very weak attempt - the opposition player remained upright and passed the ball resulting in the second try of the Scots.
You may on spurious grounds not agree with the above - but one has to look at the consequences of the missed tackle as well. Although other players in the first and third cases - the misses allowed the Scots to continue with their further attacking moves.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
18 Jun 2013, 03:22#19
Saffex
Normal comments from a dunce. First of all the commentator said Engelbrecht was subbed - e was not - Serfontein came in - De Villiers moved to 13 and Engelbrecht stay on at 14. So bullshit at it in full flight. Do you ever watch rugby games properly - DUNCE?
Secondly - you find the most weird excuses for fuck-ups by players - really nice to read them stupedo. First of all you said Engelbrecht missed no tackles. Then I gave you the times of the misses - then three funnies in return.
My advice remains - before you write things - make sure you are not disgracing yourself any further than you have already done.
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
18 Jun 2013, 12:26#20
So LiarMike, are you saying that JJ missed tackles at minute 42 and 77 you lying low life.
As for the so called miss at minute 5, go check the circumstances you ignorant useless rugby follower. You know fuck all about rugby, but as Moz says, the worst thing about you is that you lie to try make a point.
Kindly be man enough to point out exactly which tackles JJ missed at minute 42 and 77. Take your time you useless prick, for its going to be interesting seeing you lie your way out of this one.
Sadly you chose the wrong poster to lie to, I’ll expose your useless ass every time. Your rugby ignorance is extremely irritating, but your lying makes you a complete and utter wanker. You have no credibility at all.
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
18 Jun 2013, 15:14#22
Stuff you Beenkop, I don't need some twat lying about a good player missing tackles when he clearly did not, in fact its so bad that the last tackle mentioned does not even have the player anywhere near the ball.
JJ missed no one on one tackles all match, the only half miss was as a result of Jean rushing the line and causing JJ to have to readjust and attempt to make a tackle while off balance. This idiot is far too stupid to appreciate this very fact.
I also get irritated hearing that JJ rushes out of line, when its clear that Jean and Habana do the very same thing. This form of defence is obviously encouraged as we have 3 of our backs regularly employing it.
Sometimes the rush works, sometimes it doesn't. JJ rush to try stop the try was his only option. The Scots had men out wide and JJ was left exposed on the outside
