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FORUM / RUGBY /  JJ the astute defender

JJ the astute defender

Started by Saffolk 54 REPLIES651 VIEWS· 19 Apr 2014, 17:16
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SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
19 Apr 2014, 17:16
#1
19 Apr 2014, 17:16#1

While the Bulls as a whole were poor again and lack balance in vital areas, it was the defence of Serfontein and in particular JJ that impressed me the most. Last year JJ felt the transition from wing to centre defensively in the S15, but he changed that at test level and has gone on to confirm how well he has mastered the art of defensive play at 13 this S15. The way he snubbed out anything the dangerous Tahs backs threw at the Bulls backs was fantastic.......his rushes were perfectly timed snubbing out the dangerous Foloau out wide. So much for JJ not being able to effect a low tackle, look no further than the ankle effort on Foloau.



Its just such a pity the Bulls forwards failed to provide the platform, for it would have been nice to see Serfontein and JJ with more ball in hand. They impressed with the little ball they did receive.



The Bulls look devoid of any true clout as they lack balance in the forwards. Matfield is a complete passenger who gets owned in contact. He is there to provide a line-out option and that's all we see, with no true authority. The Bulls would be far better served with the impressive Willemse at 4 and Flip at 5. Matfield needs to move back to coaching. The looseforward trio is a hopeless cause, a side cannot function with a makeshift openside. Jono Ross is being made to look and ordinary player out of position at 6. Hattingh is not an 8th man's backside and Jacques Engelbrecht is a poor rugby player with no skills whatsoever. To think that old Clown wanted him as his Bok 8. The Bulls are lost without Stegman and Arno Botha.



Wasting Hougaard on the wing after the injury to Ndungane has been another selection blunder. v/Zyl has lost his mojo and Paige was exposed when he came on.



I am getting tired of watching the Bulls loose......hardly surprising given the coach cant get his selections right. Why on earth is Marcel v/d Merwe not starting at 3 ahead of the average Kruger......hell the Bulls scrum dominated with 7 players when Mellett and v/d Merwe were playing.



The Bulls need to dump Kruger, Matfield, Ross and Hattingh and they need to return Hougaard to 9.




MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
19 Apr 2014, 17:50
#2
19 Apr 2014, 17:50#2

So Serfontein in his 11 runs for 22 metres impressed you Dave.....this centre pairing is our worst. They simply wait to be fed and then do nothing with the ball. As for JJ's ankle tackle I can only assume it was an ankle tap....hahahaha.

 

I must day though, it's sad to see you turn on Werner your estwhile great favourite.

SH
Shezza
Pro2,471 posts
SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
19 Apr 2014, 21:34
#3
19 Apr 2014, 21:34#3
 Mozart's fabled selective usage of statistics has appeared. How about you watch the game before saying such stupid things. Serfontein had a good game.
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 Apr 2014, 23:30
#4
19 Apr 2014, 23:30#4
Shezza
Have you not noticed that Mozart is totally unprincipled - he will use anything that may remotely enhance his arguments and when there is nothing he invents some things and even terminology.  He uses stats when he believes it serves his purpose - otherwise it becomes raw stats never to be used.
That makes him by some distance the most biased and prejudiced member and one whose opinions should never be used on face value - when he writes anything check it - it is bound to be bent. .        
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 Apr 2014, 02:23
#5
20 Apr 2014, 02:23#5
Well coming from you Oom that's funny. Unlike you, I made it obvious by my comments I hadn't watched the game....seems they don't like the Bools on my feed. So until I can get the YouTube coverage, reports and stats are all I have. Those stats and reports  infer another non event for the Bools centres. But unlike you I'm maintaining an open mind.
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Apr 2014, 03:35
#6
20 Apr 2014, 03:35#6
Mozart
You keep an open mind - what a load of BS. That and quoting from articles and then making an assessment of the situation pertaining to player performances you have not even seen is definitely in line with your standard prejudiced contributions.   
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 Apr 2014, 03:47
#7
20 Apr 2014, 03:47#7
I'd recommend you also quote from articles ...that way you have a chance of reporting something sensible. Stats are a fair source, used by a statistician not a dikkus....and journalistic opinion is fair game. 
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Apr 2014, 04:26
#8
20 Apr 2014, 04:26#8
Mozart 
When I quoted a well-researched newspaper article about deficiencies in SA Rugby performances you went dead quiet because it dies not accord with your ideas.   
Sure stats are a fair indication unless it is quoted by me - you thick prick.  With that I am on par with your constant personal remarks.
Let me go on  your constant references to me being ignorant about stats and usage = and you go and do exactly the same things as I quite and that is then acceptable - is sick and cowardly.   When you are cornered - your only response is another personal attack.
Why do you not analyse Francois Steyn's stats the way you do - and use them to prove to us how wonderful a player he is.   I dare you to do a full statistical evaluation on him and then come back with it to proof  your stupid assertions about his contributions.     
I knopw you would not be able to do that and come up with anything positive.  Ay least once in your life be honest and your stupid self. 
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Apr 2014, 04:26
#9
20 Apr 2014, 04:26#9
Mozart 
When I quoted a well-researched newspaper article about deficiencies in SA Rugby performances you went dead quiet because it dies not accord with your ideas.   
Sure stats are a fair indication unless it is quoted by me - you thick prick.  With that I am on par with your constant personal remarks.
Let me go on  your constant references to me being ignorant about stats and usage = and you go and do exactly the same things as I quite and that is then acceptable - is sick and cowardly.   When you are cornered - your only response is another personal attack.
Why do you not analyse Francois Steyn's stats the way you do - and use them to prove to us how wonderful a player he is.   I dare you to do a full statistical evaluation on him and then come back with it to proof  your stupid assertions about his contributions.     
I kno w you would not be able to do that and come up with anything positive.  At least once in your life be honest and not your stupid self. 
BO
bobbok...
Captain10,129 posts
BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
20 Apr 2014, 04:43
#10
20 Apr 2014, 04:43#10
 

'Nuff said.........................
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 Apr 2014, 05:47
#11
20 Apr 2014, 05:47#11
 Oom a doctor would use a  stethoscope the same way you would, but he would know what sounds are significant. Statistics are the same, a bit of training is required. You are just bumbling along not knowing what you are doing. Leave it to the chaps who understand the principles and limitations
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Apr 2014, 08:49
#12
20 Apr 2014, 08:49#12
Mozart
Another personal attack wi ll get you nowhere.   Lets get down to the "chaps who understand the principles and limitations"  If you think you are one - please answer my challenge to evaluate the statistical performance of Francois Steyn.
Until you are honest enough to do that - your usage of stats in some cases and not in others will expose you as a dishonest and biased.  
You are too bloody thick to accuse me of not understanding things - while you Bullshitting Bertie claim to understand your so-called "principles and limitations".     



MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 Apr 2014, 09:22
#13
20 Apr 2014, 09:22#13
Admit it Mike, you don't even have Matric maths....how in blue blazes can you use stats  
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Apr 2014, 10:42
#14
20 Apr 2014, 10:42#14
 Mozart
I can tell you one thing you obnoxious old bullshitter and that is that I have matric Maths - passed with a C symbol and also Stats II on graduate level.    What the ehll brought that one on?
Look - coward - I know what brought it on - it is a feeble attempt to divert discussion away from Francois Steyn.  LOOK LET ME PUT IT CLEARLY AND IN BOLD  - UNTIL YOU COME UP WITH A STATISTICAL EVALUATION OF STEYN'S PERFORMANCES   ANY REFERENCE TO STATS ON OTHER PLAYERS ON YOUR PART CONFIRM YOUR DISHONESTY AND  DUPLICITY.        


MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 Apr 2014, 17:05
#15
20 Apr 2014, 17:05#15
Ok OoM explain to me what a function is.....Go ahead, that's an easy one to knock out of the park and show you have a few basics. Don't disappear on me now!
GE
generaltit
Pro3,164 posts
GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
20 Apr 2014, 20:55
#16
20 Apr 2014, 20:55#16

 Depends...for certain intellects like Zuma, a function is a get together with his lackey s around his R2.8 million swimming pool drinking Chibuku Shake Shake others it's this:


Others it's this:


CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Apr 2014, 20:59
#17
20 Apr 2014, 20:59#17
 Mozart
 A change of tune again - still not prepared to do a statistical evaluation of Francois Steyn.
Now back to the term of "function" in  rugby terms.   Each of the players on the field of play have a specific function.   The function includes a set of specific activities expected from the relevant player - but since it is a team game the player's activities are not limited to his basic function.  He is expected to undertake general activities in defense and attack expected from all team members as well.
Now lets look at a specific position such as flyhalf.   The flyhalf is the key decision maker in the backline of the team.  Aside from his physical activities - like carrying, passing. kicking and defence  (representing specific requirements) there are two other aspects of the game he must be competent to perform - the one essential and the other one optional.  
The essential one is he must  be able to read the game and take decisions depending on given circumstances - ie decide what line of action should be followed under given circumstances to ensure maximum benefit for his team.   The second one is optional - although most teams generally use the flyhalf for the relevant purpose - namely kicking at goal.
The problem with certain SA  flyhalfs are that they have to be instructed in advance by the coach what they should do and not do - in other words they have limited or no ability to read games and are robots controlled from a distance.  Unless you have the full package at flyhalf - and goal kicking is not an essential - you have in general a malfunctioning backline.
It is not possible to blame the flyhalf alone for the malfunctioning - it could be influenced by players outside of him as well.   
Aside from the most important reading of the game requirement. the flyhalf have to meet speed requirements and  good hand-eye co-ordination.   
Taken all requirements into account it has been proved that Francois Steyn does not meet the basic requirements of a flyhalf and is deficient as a center.   Players like Alberts cannot perform all activities associated with loosie play - which reduces their effectiveness in broader team performance.  As an example he cannot undertake breakdown ball protection and recovery and ball carrying outside traffic, while being unable to effectively pass balls.  As these activities are absent - his participation in performance of the essential activities of a loosie is limited and his usefulness for the team is reduced.
NOW PLEASE DO AN EVALUATION OF THE STATISTICAL PERFORMANCES OF fRANCOIS STEYN AND TELL US WHY HE IS SO GOOD.       
           

    
GE
generaltit
Pro3,164 posts
GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
20 Apr 2014, 21:22
#18
20 Apr 2014, 21:22#18

Ol Maaik and Moz...are you over 40...lolz


 

MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
21 Apr 2014, 02:24
#19
21 Apr 2014, 02:24#19
 So Oom Chaballs has given you a binomial equation.....just explain the term function. Come now, if you have Matric Maths circa 1965 this should be a snap.
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 Apr 2014, 03:22
#20
21 Apr 2014, 03:22#20
 Mozart 
Are you dim or something?  If you want the meaning of the word function - go and look it up in the Concise English Dictionary. 
  


SH
Shezza
Pro2,471 posts
SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
21 Apr 2014, 03:41
#21
21 Apr 2014, 03:41#21
Mozart it's hard to believe you're an elderly man, you're quite childish and pathetic. 
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 Apr 2014, 04:28
#22
21 Apr 2014, 04:28#22
Shezza
Don't be too hard on Mozart - the simple truth is he has been cornered for the umpteenth time and is no on escape mechanism mood again.  Normal in his case - anything but to discuss the Steyn performance scenario will pop out from him.
I am afraid I should be more patient and hit him less hard at times - but he is so headstrong and obnoxious at times - it is hard to be patient all the time.         
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
21 Apr 2014, 04:37
#23
21 Apr 2014, 04:37#23
Childish? Hmmm, to ask a fool to prove he understands the numbers he spouts. Methinks not....in any case I don't much care what others think.
But while we are being candid, I think you are a naive chap who is always impressed by the flavour of the day....with little grasp of what is required to succeed at international level. A bit of a wide eyed fool, in short.
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 Apr 2014, 05:02
#24
21 Apr 2014, 05:02#24
Mozart
So now anybody who does not agree with your nonsensical ideas is a fool.  What a joke?   Why don't you grow up and start proving your points factually and stop being as shallow in rugby thinking as you are.
The issue is simple here - you preach to all of us how good Francois Steyn is - I just ask you to explain the so-called excellence by evaluating his stats. You are too cowardly to do that - so you start of with your standard witless escape mechanisms.
   
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
21 Apr 2014, 05:25
#25
21 Apr 2014, 05:25#25
The truth is never very popular. Far more fun to believe we produce dozens of world class players and if we had good coaches we would dominate rugby. The same view implies we don't need to respect our proven players because there is a queue behind them. 
Sadly it's all rubbish as our mediocre S15 results show. We have a competitive advantage in physicality a huge deficit in running rugby skills. So what does the average moron want us to do....chose guys like  Swiel, Goosen, JJ and Serfontein, none of whom would have a prayer of being chosen for NZ.....and play them at their own game.
Could anything be more likely to lead to defeat?
SH
Shezza
Pro2,471 posts
SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
21 Apr 2014, 05:32
#26
21 Apr 2014, 05:32#26
In New Zealand players like Goosen, Swiel and Serfontein would be treated a lot better by coaches and fans. Just look at players like Ardie Savea, Charles Piutau and Luatua. They're all in thriving environments getting on with their development. 
Anyway that's beyond the point, they're South African not Kiwi. So tough luck, they're going to get picked for South Africa and you're going to have to sulk in the corner with your conservative ways.
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
21 Apr 2014, 05:58
#27
21 Apr 2014, 05:58#27
Not conservative.....realistic. We haven't won a wide open test against NZ since Delports days. But we did beat them three times in 09 with a tight game plan, great kicking and great defence. So you have a choice.....winning or playing pretty rugby.  
Or put in terms  that might be easier to grasp.....it's Sharks rugby and results....or Cheetahs rugby and results.
SH
Shezza
Pro2,471 posts
SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
21 Apr 2014, 06:48
#28
21 Apr 2014, 06:48#28
 You're not taking many things into context are you? You argue like a politician, you try and cheat your way through arguments. So you're going to call De Villiers a good coach, seeing as he had a triple over the Kiwi's in 2009. He inherited world class players in their prime, that is all.
Everything in moderation, the Meyer way. He's going to win us stuff, he's got his eye on Goosen and Serfontein, whether you like it or not they're going to be playing for South Africa. I don't know how you're going to cope come 2019, all your favourites are going to be gone and replaced! You might end up looking a little like this

OI
oimatey
Pro1,870 posts
OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
21 Apr 2014, 07:11
#29
21 Apr 2014, 07:11#29
Shezza - Breaking Bad fan?





MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
21 Apr 2014, 08:20
#30
21 Apr 2014, 08:20#30

Hahaha well Shezza, this may come as a surprise to you but we all get there in the end....just pray You have somebody around to clip on your oxygen tube.

 

But this fellow has a bit of a wild look, like a Bok fan who has just watched the Boks trying to beat NZ by outrunning them.

 

When the Boks do that JJ loses the ball just before the half. When JJ loses the ball just before the half the ABs keep running it. If they keep running it they are going to score.

 

And if the ABs score just before the half, they are going to score twice in the second half. If they score twice in the second half they will win the match and get bonus points. If they win the match and get bonus points they will win the whole RC.

 

If the ABs win the RC, you will age 45 years in a few minutes. If you age 45 years in a few minutes your eyes will pop out of your head and a nurse with halitosis  will pin an oxygen feed into your nose.

 

Don't let a nurse with halitosis pin an oxygen tube into your nose....choose a team without any whipper snappers that wont try and outrun the ABs:

 

 

12 September 2009 Waikato Stadium, Hamilton Tri-Nations Match South Africa 32 New Zealand 29 Captain: John Smit Referee: Nigel Owens (Wales) Coach: Peter de Villiers Attendance: 31557

Team:
Combined caps: 629 tests (starting 15)

Position Player Province Age Prev Tests Scoring Loose-head Prop Tendai Mtawarira Sharks 24 18   Hooker Bismarck du Plessis Sharks 25 29   Tight-head Prop (C) John Smit Sharks 31 89   Lock Bakkies Botha Blue Bulls 29 62   Lock Victor Matfield Blue Bulls 32 88   Flank Heinrich Brüssow Cheetahs 23 9   Flank Schalk (jnr) Burger WP 26 52   Eighthman Pierre Spies Blue Bulls 24 27   Scrumhalf Fourie du Preez Blue Bulls 27 51 1 try Flyhalf Morné Steyn Blue Bulls 25 8 2 conversions, 2 penalties, 1 dropgoal Left Wing Bryan Habana Blue Bulls 26 53   Inside Centre Jean de Villiers WP 28 53 1 try Outside Centre Jaque Fourie Lions 26 50   Right Wing Odwa Ndungane Sharks 28 5   Full Back Francois Steyn Sharks 22 35 3 penalties
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 Apr 2014, 11:16
#31
21 Apr 2014, 11:16#31
Mozart
You are stuck like a broken gramophone needle in the past.  We beat New Zealand in 2009 - but since then the game have changed - the rules have changed to enhance the playing of attacking rugby - and New Zealand have developed their rugby accordingly.  We did not.
Like that stuck needle we have gone backwards since 2009.  We played tight rugby  but we cannot score tries that way.  Responsible commentators see what is wrong in our rugby - you do not.  
We must play 10 man rugby - nobody else in world rugby does anymore.  We must select players who are slow and heavy - whose defense is deficient as a result.  So when statistics show deficiencies in the relevant regard - those are ignored by you.
Above all - you reckon protect us from playing thinking rugby - play the dull unthinking game - it may result in a penalty which could be converted and that way we may have a 5% chance of winning a game without skilled players.   The only acceptable flyhalf is Francois Steyn because he had converted a few long distance penalties.  The rest of his game means nothing - he is shit poor for the rest - so ignore that aspect and let him play because he can kick long distance penalties.
Worse still - we must recycle the failed players of 2011 and they will produce better results in 2014.   So you rush out to praise players like Bakkies Botha, Steenkamp and others  who despite advancing years - will somehow bring back the 2009 glory year.   Morne Steyn is our saviour - but he is not even the saviour of his club.   
Everybody who believes that an effort must at least be made to move on in rugby - like the rest of the world did - are in your opinion fools.   Who is the idiot here?   You saw the Ellis Park test with a one-eyed blurred vision.  JJ lost the ball - which he should never have had  if the non-thinking Morne Steyn did kick the ball from his own 22 into touch seconds before the halftime whistle.   You blame JJ - you blame JJ - you blame JJ - the needle is stuck on JJ.   Alberts' and Morne's defense was shit poor - but you blame JJ only.
It never enters your mind that it was not running and attacking rugby that cost us the game at Ellis Park - it was poor defense largely by the same players you insist must be in the team.  After the failed Morne went sour in Stade Francais - voila  we must play Francois Steyn at 10.   His defense is piss poor and so is his attacking abilities - but he can kick long distance penalties - bugger the rest.
One seriously wonder who is the fool here - the person stuck in 2009 or those who hope and pray for an improvement in our rugby performances?                                 
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
21 Apr 2014, 17:10
#32
21 Apr 2014, 17:10#32
Mike I'm afraid you have no sense and more importantly, you have no sense of humour....none whatsoever.
GE
generaltit
Pro3,164 posts
GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
21 Apr 2014, 17:28
#33
21 Apr 2014, 17:28#33
 From JJ to FS...reminds me of that old number "from a jack to a king" both Moz and Mike will remember it...lolz
JW
Just_win
Captain18,570 posts
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
21 Apr 2014, 17:31
#34
21 Apr 2014, 17:31#34
& the two ol' codgers continue to duke it out , lol  
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 Apr 2014, 17:39
#35
21 Apr 2014, 17:39#35
 Mozart
What sense of humour are you talking about - insulting members are not a sign of sense of humour.  Is you continued support of Francois Steyn showing a sense of humour?    Probably you are plaguing us with that one  because it makes fun of the situation.  I take it for the joke it is.   It really is funny haha -  Francois Steyn is a joke. 
So is your support for the elderly who are way past their prime and does not produce anything of value - thaat is  if it is listed on this site to create discussions.     
What is not funny is your constant personal attacks on people - that does not represents a sense of humour - rather a sense of vindictiveness,
GE
generaltit
Pro3,164 posts
GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
21 Apr 2014, 18:08
#36
21 Apr 2014, 18:08#36

Something to cheer the old timers up...Frans Steyn and Morne learn from the great old Doc's advice and Naas Botha...lolz...


http://youtu.be/d16qh9KF72k






 

MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
21 Apr 2014, 18:25
#37
21 Apr 2014, 18:25#37
Doc Craven, what a nice young chap he was....I remember him well.  
SH
Shezza
Pro2,471 posts
SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
22 Apr 2014, 00:56
#38
22 Apr 2014, 00:56#38
 Oimatey, I am in deed. That's where my inspiration for Mozart's future grimace comes from, got to love Hector Salamanca!
SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
22 Apr 2014, 15:29
#39
22 Apr 2014, 15:29#39

Wow Moz, its pretty sad when you comment on something you have not even witnessed......less said the better.

 

 

The Bulls centre pair are the best we have by some distance  

DE
Denny
Captain12,893 posts
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
22 Apr 2014, 16:11
#40
22 Apr 2014, 16:11#40
  

'Nuff said.........................

 

Damn right 'nuff said......a picture paints a thousand words or so the saying goes.

 

 

Subject matter closed.


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