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FORUM / RUGBY /  Johan Goosen free to fly

Johan Goosen free to fly

Started by Beeno122 REPLIES316 VIEWS· 07 Mar 2014, 09:21
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BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
07 Mar 2014, 09:21
#1
07 Mar 2014, 09:21#1

Some remarks here for the Morne bashers and for thsoe writing off Goosen. Both views showing a lack of rugby acumen.

Ex Keo

Johan Goosen will continue to play the game his way, writes JON CARDINELLI.

I won’t change,’ Johan Goosen tells me when asked about his ambitions for the 2014 season and how he can once again make that Springbok No 10 jersey his own. ‘I was picked for a specific reason, for the way I played [in 2012], and the message from the Bok coach remains the same: “Play your natural game.”’

The statement is similar to one made by fullback Willie le Roux at the start of the 2013 Test season. Le Roux was brought into the Bok fold and told to express himself. While he enjoyed immediate success, it soon became evident that improvements were required in other areas of his game. It’s not that Le Roux was forced to change his game, but rather to add to it.

It was a mutually beneficial arrangement in that Le Roux’s selection allowed the Boks to add something new to their arsenal. Heyneke Meyer had recognised Le Roux as a potential catalyst for an attack that needed to raise its standards in 2013. In achieving this objective, the Boks would become an all-round threat.

Back in 2012, the identification process regarding Goosen as a game-changer had been much the same. Goosen repaid Meyer’s faith by bringing something new to the Boks’ attack and, like Le Roux, Goosen boasted a quality that was in short supply this side of the Indian Ocean. It’s not hard to understand why Meyer would value such unpredictability, or why he would consider Le Roux and Goosen as important to his 2015 World Cup plans.(Ah Meyer the mastermind so far ahead of his critics like ou snapster and ou maaaaikie and company!)

Meyer first trusted the then 20-year-old to start against the Wallabies in the 2012 Rugby Championship. Goosen produced a dazzling display that vindicated the selection, exhibiting skills and vision typically the reserve of the more audacious Australasians. It was on that heady night at Loftus Versfeld that Goosen provided some substance to Meyer’s claim that the kid had the potential to become one of the great No 10s.

Injuries have prevented Goosen from realising this destiny, or indeed adding to an already impressive skill set. A shoulder injury sidelined him for much of that 2012 season, cutting short what was shaping to be an outstanding debut in the Super Rugby tournament. Prior to that blow, Goosen was not only one of the most dangerous attacking flyhalves in the competition, but the leading goal-kicker with a record of 48 from 56 attempts. These are the feats that most forget when a bright young thing breaks down and disappears from the scene.(But one good performance and those writing off Goosen will be saying I told you so!!!!! Bwahahahahahha its hilarious really)

Goosen produced a dazzling display that vindicated the selection, exhibiting skills and vision typically the reserve of the more audacious Australasians

A knee injury in late 2012 stalled his progress and ruled him out of the end-of-year tour to Europe. In early 2013, Goosen tore knee ligaments during Super Rugby. This time, surgery would preclude him from the Boks’ first nine Tests. Goosen suffered a further setback upon his return in October by overexerting himself during a kicking session. This would render him a passenger on the subsequent tour to Wales, Scotland and France.

In the pubs and on social media, arguments were made for Morné Steyn and Pat Lambie as permanent holders of the No 10 jersey. As far as many of the  fans were concerned, Goosen was out of sight and thus out of mind.

But Meyer remained a believer in Goosen’s game-changing potential, and still feels the youngster could have a crucial role to play for the Boks in 2014 and 2015. This is why Goosen toured with the Boks last November, to be a part of the squad even though he could not contribute on the field of play, to learn from the more seasoned players and to witness the testing conditions of the northern hemisphere first-hand.

‘Make no mistake, I was the youngster in that equation,’ he says of his educational interchanges with Steyn, Lambie and Fourie du Preez. ‘I was all ears, and in that environment, you are all working towards a common goal.’

And how about when you’re competing for the same position in 2014?

‘Look, I’m a competitive guy,’ he says, leaving me to fill in the blanks. Goosen may be keen to learn, but he won’t be content to ride the bench this season.

Steyn was the best flyhalf in the world in 2013, although this statement needs qualifying. Steyn was the best in the absence of All Blacks No 10 Dan Carter, who struggled with his own injuries over the course of the season, and in the absence of Goosen, the Boks’ first-choice pivot.(Hahahhahahaha ou maaaikie really needs to get to grips with reality when it comes to Morne)

Steyn’s recent achievements should be celebrated, and it’s a foregone conclusion that he will travel with the Boks to the World Cup in 2015. What’s less certain is what sort of role he will play at that tournament. Meyer knows what he has in Steyn: an excellent tactician and a match-winning goal-kicker. Lambie has been less convincing with regard to his game management, and while the Sharks pivot will work hard to alter this perception over the next few months of Super Rugby, it’s likely the race for the No 10 jersey, now and in the lead-up to the World Cup in England, will be between Steyn and Goosen.(I think Lambie could overtake Steyn this year and Marnitz is looking the best of them all- only to be moved to 15 this weekend!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How Goosen will go as he gets into his stride is to be seen but I am hoping he does fly as he has great potential)

A fit Goosen will challenge the status quo, for his attacking talents are coupled with an ability to bisect the uprights, even from within his own half. All that remains for the youngster to do is improve his kicking for field position, and then we really are moving into complete package territory.

The Boks improved significantly in 2013, with Le Roux proving the key to their resurgent attack. A similar statement could be made at the end of 2014, with Goosen collecting the plaudits for his role in the Boks’ progression, and possibly for their rise to No 1 in the world rankings. (Please note kiwi bird brains!!)

GOOSEN ON ...

NOT PLAYING FOR THE BOKS IN 2013
‘It was a disappointing year in the sense that I didn’t play any Test rugby, but I was privileged enough to tour Europe in November [although he would not play due to a knee injury]. It was a great experience to sit with guys like Morné Steyn and Pat Lambie and learn a thing or two.’

THE CHEETAHS’ RESURGENCE
‘Our defence was excellent last year and, as history will show, the best defensive sides advance to the play-offs. I felt our biggest improvement was in our kicking game. That made a big difference in terms of our success in making the knockouts. The standards have been set and we will be looking to maintain them this season.’

HIS LOVE FOR HORSES
‘While I was injured last year, I had to keep myself occupied. At the suggestion of my kicking coach, Bertus Pretorius, I spent a lot of time up at a farm in Bloemfontein riding and grooming horses. I also did a show in Parys [right], not showjumping as such, but more three gait [walk, trot, and gallop].’

MO
moolaaPro2,380 posts
07 Mar 2014, 11:56
#2
07 Mar 2014, 11:56#2
 Great for Goosen to be the bagman for Morne & Lambie Hasbeeno, but it would've helped if he actually played!!Perhaps Meyer should take personnel who can actually get on the park next time??And since when does a kicking coach recommend riding horses to assist goal kicking?
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 Mar 2014, 12:44
#3
07 Mar 2014, 12:44#3
 Goosen actually had a very good game today and made 2 very good ball carries.  Hos tactical game was very good.
Now let the prima donnas loose again and talk their usual crap.   
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,297 posts
07 Mar 2014, 13:05
#4
07 Mar 2014, 13:05#4
 Venter on his outside is a shadow of  the player that Eberoshm was. Goosen needs a playmaker on his outside not a small crash ball
ST
Sun-TzuClub Pro713 posts
07 Mar 2014, 13:12
#5
07 Mar 2014, 13:12#5
True, Venter is inferior but Goosen's issues are primarily his own.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 Mar 2014, 13:40
#6
07 Mar 2014, 13:40#6
Sun Tzu
What are his problems?   Stop talking crap -  Goosen had a very good game today.
Goosen0/01610/13/95102215/01/000/0 What problems did you see in that performance?

ST
Sun-TzuClub Pro713 posts
07 Mar 2014, 13:43
#7
07 Mar 2014, 13:43#7
I can't see any performance there, I see numbers. If you want to tak rugby, then you need to watch it. Statistics have no validity outside of context, but then you already stated clearly that video footage is a meaningless distortion of the truth.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 Mar 2014, 15:05
#8
07 Mar 2014, 15:05#8
Sun Tzu
Did you actually watch the game?  Dimwit - I said nothing of the kind about video evidence,   I said slanted descriptions of what actually happened and prejuficed statements are what is rubbish.   I read part of your essay on the games and could only wonder how you dreamed up what you actually wrote compared to what actually happened on the field of play.     
I quoted the numbers since they do confirm  what really happened  on the field of play. Probably the best performance by any SA flyhalf this year and better than any performance the robotic Morn Steyn  - other than goalkicking produced in any six Super 15 games during 2012 and 2013.     
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
07 Mar 2014, 16:00
#9
07 Mar 2014, 16:00#9

Man of the match: Willie le Roux had his moments, although he may have overplayed the ill-conceived chip-kicks, Adriaan Strauss showed more energy and Philip van der Walt was all over the park. Rod Davies was always a threat with ball in hand and Quade Cooper was again a mixed bag with plenty of entertainment value. However, out award goes to Reds lock Rob Simmons, who was a monster on defence - the highest tackle count for his team - and did the hard yards in the tight exchanges as well as the basics, winning all his line-outs.

 

 

I'm sorry OOM but I see no mention of this best performance by any Bok flyhalf this year....after all Boshoff was the 365 Man of the Match a few weeks back . But the time difference being what it is, I will check the game out later and report back on what really happened.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 Mar 2014, 19:09
#10
07 Mar 2014, 19:09#10
 Mozart
Before you actually start to go for Goosen in your normal style - see the game and try to be objective this time around.   I know insofar as certain players are concerned you never are objective - but please a t least try for once.
    
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
07 Mar 2014, 22:15
#11
07 Mar 2014, 22:15#11

Goosen had a perfectly normal game. He wasn't particularly effective, his kicking was about average, he got caught out inside for the first Reds try...leaving Cooper free to create space. His metres came from open field runs without beating tackles ...barring one run on the left where he stepped a few forwards. Cooper was by far the more involved player, although he also gifted a try.

 

OOm I would be most concerned about two things. Most crucially he was struggling physically and grimacing again...and was subbed early. Secondly on the Cheetahs first try he was put in the clear by Willie with nobody in front of him and a clear run to the line. He bottled out and gave the ball back to Willie to do everything. Hell even Prinsloo ran it in from distance....it looks to me he is psychologically unwilling to really stretch for pace. Can't say I blame him, given the injuries.

 

The best bit of flyhalf play for the Cheetahs was the Watts try....he reacted instantly to the Pretorius break....chose the right line and finished it all off.

 

Sorry but this talk about the best SA flyhalf display is a mystery to me.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 Mar 2014, 22:35
#12
07 Mar 2014, 22:35#12
Mozart
I expected nothing different from you - in other words the standard biased bullshit you spout most of the time about every player you do not like.
Another injury yarn - Goosen was treated came back and played for another 10 minutes - during which time he converted a penalty.   I cannot remember what time exactly he was subbed - but the early sub story is another piece of Mozart tripe talk.
A mystery to you because you only consider goal kicking as the alpha and omega of flyhalf play - and what else can one expect from a person who regards Morne as a top flyhalf.   
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
07 Mar 2014, 22:47
#13
07 Mar 2014, 22:47#13
 And I expect nothing at all from you. But let me help you with a few facts. Goosen was subbed at minute 40 and subbed back on at minute 44. Then at minute 59, having played 55 minutes he was permanently subbed. What a stupid thing for Naka to do...subbing a player who was setting new standards for Bok flyhalf play according to you.... for a journeyman like Watts....hahaha. Man how uniformed can you be after watching the match....are you sure you didn't just look at the stats you old coot.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 Mar 2014, 23:22
#14
07 Mar 2014, 23:22#14
Mozart
What a lot of trollish rubbish.   He was not subbed at minute 40 - because that was the end of the first half.   How could he have been subbed then.
You are wrong again - Drotsky send on virtually all his subs at minute 59 - not only Goosen.   
I looked at the match before I wrote any comment - your first comment was before you saw the match - and I did not look only at the stats - I saw that the stats reflected what really happened.   Unlike you I looked at things with an open mind. 

 What Goosen did today was to attack the gain line himself - which I thought very good compared to Morne Steyn who NEVER does anything of the sort.   However, what can one expect from a person who thinks it is un-SA for a flyhalf to be on the move when receiving the ball from a scrummie.           
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
07 Mar 2014, 23:34
#15
07 Mar 2014, 23:34#15

You should recognize the source.....game, set and match you delusional old fool

 

40start of second halfstart of second half
Goosen - sub off
Watts - sub on
Hendricks - sub off
Benjamin - sub on44Goosen - sub on
Watts - sub off

 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
08 Mar 2014, 00:25
#16
08 Mar 2014, 00:25#16
 Mozart
Did not come back after half time and came back 4 minutes later.  Do you - you biased and stupid old bugger - knows what happened.  The answer is NO - and your whole story of early subbing  is Bullshit as per normal.  Players go off for blood injuries,  concussion tests. etc and come back a few minutes later - it does not mean they are subbed.  
You apparently do not know what is meant by subbing.  Temporary replacements are what happened during matches and is not really intended to be permanent subbing.  A player can go off for a variety of reasons and come back a few minutes later and could even play for the full game.       
Subbing in actual fact is the substitution of a player for the remainder of the game and that player never comes back onto the field of play.   in this case at minute 59 Drotsky brought on all his subs.
If you keep on referring to injury problems every week - last week you shot you bolt about it and above again - I would assume that you are continuously  hoping for the gu y to be injured.   If - unlike last week and twice before during this series - you want to write about injuries wait until you have factual information and not write about your own dreams and hope before the fact.          
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
08 Mar 2014, 00:30
#17
08 Mar 2014, 00:30#17
 Dear boy, that quote comes straight from ESPN Scrum.....feeling like a total fool again? Hell I even gave you a hint....talk  about thick!
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
08 Mar 2014, 00:59
#18
08 Mar 2014, 00:59#18
Mozart
I saw the  match reportn on ESPN scrum - but you missed completely the situation what happened again.  Do you know why Goosen came back 4 minutes after the start of the second half?   You do not know - now do you?  You started with your standard injury story as the main issue - after running down  his performance - based on the fact that he was treated after halftime on the field of play.   
This happened to a lot of players - and normally there is no song and dance about it - but in Goosen's case you make it headline news.  Are you not ashamed about your constant hope for an injury in his case? 
Your prejudice and dislike of cert ain players make you the biggest fool on this site ever.     

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
08 Mar 2014, 02:06
#19
08 Mar 2014, 02:06#19
I repeat he was subbed at minute 40,subbed back on....for all I know he went for a leak. Then after struggling to  get up to take a penalty, he was permanently subbed at minute 59. If he was having this brilliant game and wasn't injured, your two assertions, why would Naka take him off for journeyman Watts, when the game was there to be won?
Maybe the same reason he yanked Lappies.....there was an injury concern?

Stop blustering and dodging you old coot and answer the question.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
08 Mar 2014, 07:07
#20
08 Mar 2014, 07:07#20
Mozart 
If there is one thing always present in your comments it is your hatred of a long list of players.   If those players perform well you try and make them look bad by using a Mozart coined term like process players to discredit them - or manufacture mythical reasons to discredit them by finding fault with a certain situation is so far removed from reality on the field of play,  it is unbelievable.   Then it is fine to ignore stats that counter your ridiculous statements. 
It would not be so absurd id the opposite is not true about the players you favour - them stats are to be used selectively.  If it favours the players you like - sagfas are written and the stats reproduced on this site - if it does not mythical reasons are found to support the players and the stats are never ever mentioned.
Take the case of Goosen as an example.   Last year you wrote safas about how food a ball carrier Morne Steyn in fact was - ignoring the fact that Morne NEVER attacks the gain line - but after yesterday you wrote  "His metres came from open field runs without beating tackles ...barring one run on the left where he stepped a few forwards"   This is a distortion of the truth.   Goosen did attack the gaon line and was tackled a couple of times.   His best run was down the center of the field where  he stepped a number of tacklers and was eventually tackled on the Reds 22.
It is really hard to see any objectivity in your assessment of players.   It is so bad that I am starting to get to a stage where when you make a statement - it is better to look again to see whether there is any truth in your befuddled allegations.   If you say one thing about a player - in 90% of the cases it is best to think about the exact opposite being the case.
A typical example is the case of the performances of the Stormers centers last week. De Villiers had a sub-par game and was defended vigorously by you - De Allende had a very good game and the silence on that one ob your part was deafening.   I guess De Allende will join your list of hated players soon enough though.   He must just keep up his performances and he will be on that list immediately.                    


   
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
08 Mar 2014, 07:07
#21
08 Mar 2014, 07:07#21
Mozart 
If there is one thing always present in your comments it is your hatred of a long list of players.   If those players perform well you try and make them look bad by using a Mozart coined term like process players to discredit them - or manufacture mythical reasons to discredit them by finding fault with a certain situation is so far removed from reality on the field of play,  it is unbelievable.   Then it is fine to ignore stats that counter your ridiculous statements. 
It would not be so absurd id the opposite is not true about the players you favour - them stats are to be used selectively.  If it favours the players you like - sagfas are written and the stats reproduced on this site - if it does not mythical reasons are found to support the players and the stats are never ever mentioned.
Take the case of Goosen as an example.   Last year you wrote safas about how food a ball carrier Morne Steyn in fact was - ignoring the fact that Morne NEVER attacks the gain line - but after yesterday you wrote  "His metres came from open field runs without beating tackles ...barring one run on the left where he stepped a few forwards"   This is a distortion of the truth.   Goosen did attack the gaon line and was tackled a couple of times.   His best run was down the center of the field where  he stepped a number of tacklers and was eventually tackled on the Reds 22.
It is really hard to see any objectivity in your assessment of players.   It is so bad that I am starting to get to a stage where when you make a statement - it is better to look again to see whether there is any truth in your befuddled allegations.   If you say one thing about a player - in 90% of the cases it is best to think about the exact opposite being the case.
A typical example is the case of the performances of the Stormers centers last week. De Villiers had a sub-par game and was defended vigorously by you - De Allende had a very good game and the silence on that one ob your part was deafening.   I guess De Allende will join your list of hated players soon enough though.   He must just keep up his performances and he will be on that list immediately.                    


   
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
08 Mar 2014, 14:40
#22
08 Mar 2014, 14:40#22

Lots of words but still no confession as to why Goosen, playing the "best game of any SA flyhalf this year", was subbed. The most potent bit of running from a Cheetah flyhalf came from Watts.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
08 Mar 2014, 15:28
#23
08 Mar 2014, 15:28#23
You bloody liar - you know zero about rugby - other than hate talk of players you do not like. 
There was no injury report on Goosen after the match and you are fabricating lies again.  He was subbed together with the other players and not on his own.
You are desperate to lie about the game so it is better for me to take a whiskey and soda and not get upset by your bullshit.  
— END OF THREAD —

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