Johan Goosen vs Pat Lambie

 2 exceptional flyhalfs that can run, pass kick for poles and territory.

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Johan Goosen was phenominal in the 2nd half-Cover tackles, runs and passes. He is an extremely commited player, in the 2nd half his determination got the Cheetas back into the game with him being promiment in most attacking and cover defensive moves.

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Lambie had the benefit of playing behind a dominant pack today. 

He got 7 out of 7 kicks, his tactical kicking and passing game was very solid. Much better than the version of Lambie playing for the boks

Good for Springobk rugby to have 2 quality flyhalfs

 Pat is leading the horse race of the two.  He is calmer and better on the tactical side also today Johan had a bad day goal kicking.

Freddie

I think the first couple of kicks ay goal of Goosen were not really expected as automatically successful  - very long distance kicks and the one was at an angle- and ot would have been a miravle if he could convert same,   After that he was 100% accurate,  The two were by some distance better than any of the other flyhalfs who played this weekend and as Sharkbok said  qw aew lucky to gave two such quality flyhalfs in SA,

 Freddie you're forgetting th fact that was the first match he's played as he missed the warm up matches. Goosen is a step above Lambie but that's not to say Lambie isn't good.

 Shezza and Mike - read again, only looking at today - long time still to play for both of them.  Agree Johan was out for a long time.

Enjoyed the game, free flowing with plenty of attack. Sharks look the goods, consistency though is the key. Wasn't that impressed THIS game with Goosen, Lambie looked to have the better game and controlled things well, he looked like a seasoned 1st five...and his goal kicking phenomenal...would rate him below Carter, slightly above Cruden, with Goosen below Cruden .....just for lack of match play and experience.

 Guys, this is a rugby blog. Therefore we need reasons why statements are made or for you to back your statements up. For whatever you guys think Mike is, one thing he does is back up his statements whether you share his view or not.

Shezza, please give us your reasoning behind the statement "Goosen is a step above Lambie.." 

A few of us clearly dont share that view and rightfully so on what we have seen today. Pat Lambie was man of the match! How often do we see this vs Goosen?? I ask you guys please to stop seeing Goosen as something he is not. He is a good player and Boks will have two awesome flyhalfs in the future but its a massive call to say Goosen is better than Lambie based on one season (where might I add, Sharks were finalists and Cheetahs were nowhere again!)

 Said another way Lambie was great when the match was tight. Goosen became effective when play became wide open. Which condition do we think more likely in test rugby?

 Well going back to the past a bit Goosen wrecked the Australian defence in the RC what did Lambie do when he had the chance to play his natural game against England? Nothing of note. The beginning of the match for Goosen was a bit rusty and as soon as he got a foothold the Cheetahs came straight back into the match scoring the 2 tries. Sharkbok you're forgetting one major thing, Goosen was injured for a large part of the season last year but before that he was the leading point scorer. 

 Shezza, I would understand comparing the two if Lambie and Goosen each got half a game against Australia that day but you cant compare Lambie playing against a full strength English team at Twickenham in Northern Hemisphere conditions vs Goosen playing a badly understrength, injury ravaged Aussie team in our own back yard in fast paced conditions when the country was calling for a running game. That same English team beat NZL there. 

What you might wana think about is, would we have even beaten England with Goosen there? Maybe we would, maybe we wouldn't but maybe we would have scored more points against Aussies if Lambie was there instead of Goosen. Who knows....

When the game is loose, both Goosen and Lambie are awesome. When it is tight, only Lambie has what it takes. He has proven this with the Sharks. Every tight game Cheetahs play they lose and Goosen is yet to be tested under pressure situations for the Boks.

I do not think it is advisable to start comparing players based on one game only.   Last tear Lambie played mostly at full back and Goosen at flyhalf.   It is wishful thinking to start making comparisons at this early stage of this years competition.  

To make statements about the two based on present info is really wishful thinking based on preception rather than facts.   Factually I think that  both have different qualities they bring to the game - but one aspect in common.  Both players have ball sense.

The problem is that overall the Sharks is  a stronger team than the Cheetahs and both will be more tested in Round 3 - where the Sharks have to travel to New Zealand and will be under massive pressure against the Chiefs and the Sheraks meet the miserable Stormers.

If you can't compare players, when they are opposing each other in a match, why did they ever have trials. Of course we can make comparisons. We reaffirmed what we knew before....Lambie is a very cool, brave player with a reliable boot. We learned Goosen, with his great pace, is a greater threat on the run. But we also saw his initial nervousness which echoed his A B performance. We also saw him put in a series of poor kickoffs which immediately handed the initiative back to the Sharks.

My conclusion is Lambie is more tactically sophisticated at this stage, with more composure. This may change, they are both young players, with exceptional promise.

 That same Australian team beat England. One player doesn't make a team, but even when the cheetahs lose Goosen shines. His neverousness is due to the fact it was his first game back.

 That same Australian team beat England. One player doesn't make a team, but even when the cheetahs lose Goosen shines. His neverousness is due to the fact it was his first game back.

IMHO i think there are a lot of comments here which are based more on hope then actual facts, cos i just gave up watching the first half of the scotland/ireland 6nats game to watch the sharks/cheetahs again. i fast forward through it so that i could see where these comments about goosen playing ok came from and i have a vastly differnt opinion.

goosen was completely sh!t in the firsthalf, while average in the 2nd half. i dont see any difference between goosens 1st half performance and janties performance, cos there was nothing positive about it what so ever.
in the scond half goosen sharpned up his goal kicking, but he still offered nothing with ball in hand. most of the cheeaths effective attacks were on the back of danilliers and saide who were outsatnding for the cheetahs.

to be fair to goosen he was just returning from a long injury lay off, but he was trying too much too soon IMO and that played a huge role in his poor performance against the sharks.
the first penatly goal kick he went for is one of amny examples of bhim trying too hard. as soon as the cheetahs were awrded the penalty, he straight away went ill take the shot at goal. not only was he not on target, but he was over 10meters short. then there was the penalty he gave away when the sharks were inside their tryline, or him trying to catch a ball which was on the way out, only for hi to drop it over the touchline.
all these things are snowballs, but when u roll them down hill, it turns into an avlanche that steamed roll the cheetahs.
he wasnt the priamry reason for the cheetahs poor first game, but he had a significant role in it.

lambie was all class, very composed and reliable without being spectacular. he kicked his goals, was tactically sharp and made very smart descions. performances like that is what will see the sharks go on top of the SA conference ladder.

for me though the best flyahlf in round 2 was quade cooper. he was very dangerous with ball in hand. the reds win over the waratahs was thanks to a good team effort, and cooper played a huge part as he ran his backline with a lot of composed attacking flair.
coopers perforamnce is very close to his 2011 spXV performance which is a little scary considering he plays a million times better when his partner in crime will genia is playing.

IMO lambie needs to and will BTW up his attacking game a notch or two. his and the sharks perforamnce will always be good enough to take care of the likes of the cheetahs and similar teams, but theres no way they will beat the chiefs or the crusaders playing like that.

 Yep, two quality performances there, with Goosen edging it given his performance in the second half.

I loved the way Lambie cleared that one kick with his wrong foot

All I can say is that we should be very pleased that they are both SA players and that they will perform great plays in the years ahead for the Springboks.

Both are very talented young star players.

Lets hope that they both stay healhy and injury free for years to come.

Its a interesting comparision between the two flyhalfs when taken into account the recent statistics based on previous performances. I believe Goosen is a more efficient side steper when probing to make a clean linebreak, both players has a lack of physicality in terms of defending however im sure that aspect will improve eventually as time goes on. Overall Lambe is more consistant flyhalf, the goal kicking as well as tactical kicking is more effective. As a Coach its logical to have flyhalf with a variety of different attributes as opposed to having a flyhalf with only a few attributes like a one dimensional player and that the direction meyer needs to go this year and get a better understanding, not just flyhalfs but players in other positions too. Most importantly as a fly half knowing when to kick, attack and pass or not requires good decision making thats one of the reasons Lambie is a more sustainable and a better flyhalf overall.

The Bok jersey this year belongs to Lambie with Gooosen being given time to mature.

End of story barring inuries.

What must be noted is that the sharks battled to win against the Cheetas, The differenrce was the very lucky try by Movo. Otherwise a draw would have been the result. This against a team which would be happy to finish mid table.

On this performance shark blowhards like jalapippi should tone down the rhetoric and hope their sides performance improves.

saSue again has no clue and takes foerever to make that much clear. 

Beeno

If thereis indeed a team that needs drastic improvement it is not the Sharks - but the useless Stormers.  The Sharks made one mistake on Saturday - after  a massve lead - they sat back nd relaxed.  That should never happen at all.  I am sure it won't happpen in tight matches.   

The Stormers is a joke - and their performances wit players like Silky Hands and De Jongh - is really a joke in bad taste.   With those two around there is just no hope for improvement.

The Sharks will beat the useless Stormers on Saturday with the greatest of ease.

Sasuke has got it right...Lambie is pure class and on top of that he is calm and reliable...he is too an unselfish player and does not seek to be a prima donna. Just what the Boks need. The Boks have always been good under a reliable and innovative flyhalf and kicker. Going back in history you can see in the late Keith Oxlee, Naas Botha and Joel Stransky. One of the main reasons the AB's and Saders have been match winners vest in DC and England was on top when Jonny Wilkinson was in his peak. A flyhalf that does his job right and is able to turn penalties into points allows the pack to play with confidence as well as the back line getting opportunities to attack. Lambie takes the pressure off so well when he brings relief for the rest to perform. He is an answer to prayer for SA rugby but what is so great is that the Boks have a spare brilliant player in Johan Goosen.

If I can compare what Kepler Wessels said about SA bowlers in cricket...the same thing in the right context...SA bowlers are so good that they enable the batsmen to perform.

South Africa doesn't have any issues as far as batting is concerned. The batting depth is good and reliable performances from batsmen is rarely a concern. Just for a while, a fear existed that should either Dale Steyn or Morne Morkel get injured the Proteas would be in trouble. This may have been the case sometime back but no longer."

I think in this context almost the same thing happens in rugby. Patrick is the type of flyhalf that gives the rest of the team to perform at best...he is a staatmaker...takes the pressure off and gives confidence and can be trusted.

I believe we are going into an era...a great era for SA rugby.

Careful ou maaik with all this chest beating you do yourself a damage. Read my post re jantjes starting and his goal kicking stats and repent at leisure.

Personally i dont think Jantjes mind is in the right place right now and I would start with Grant.

Careful ou maaik with all this chest beating you will do yourself a real damage! Read my post re jantjes Super 15 goal kicking stats and repent at leisure.

Personally I dont think Jantjes mind is in the right place right now and I would start with Grant.

Well said Sebastien!