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FORUM / RUGBY /  Jordaan rounds Savea

Jordaan rounds Savea

Started by Mozart25 REPLIES452 VIEWS· 22 Feb 2014, 23:34
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
22 Feb 2014, 23:34
#1
22 Feb 2014, 23:34#1

Break of the week belongs to Robbie Fruean,  who burned the Saders with am imperious run. But I liked Jordaan easily skipping round Savea, putting the oft repeated JJ break past Savea in perspective..Savea seems slow off the mark. Despite the moaning of the commentators Fransie did a huge amount of work. And Jean  made one superb break from the flyhalf position.


The early money is on Fransie and Jean for the Boks. Losers of the week, the much overrated Bools pair, who supposedly are suffering outside a flank posing as Bools flyhalf. But where's the initiative?

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
22 Feb 2014, 23:53
#2
22 Feb 2014, 23:53#2

Mozart


Frans was a literal Fuckwit -- excuse the term.  His work consisted of never passing balls to anyone and crashballing losing balls in the process and giving away a penalty.   God help is of he ever makes the Springbok team again.  He is absolutely clueless - but to run straight at the opposing center to be tackled and that was the total of what he produced.  11 Carries making 9 meters is clear evidence of how really useless his efforts were.  A rating od 2/10 is really clear.


If we want a dead backline - put this ball hogger in the team.


And De Villiers was absolutely useless this week.   I was shocked to see what he produced.   I hope he comes right - but on todays form he was shockingly poor.


But then we are used to selecting poor players.   Alberts again produced nothing - but to give away 6 points to the Hurricanes.   Another 2/10 is a true reflection of what he was worth in this  game.      

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
23 Feb 2014, 00:08
#3
23 Feb 2014, 00:08#3
Mike you are totally clueless. Lambie never does anything to release his inside centre. I Frans  simply passes the ball the movement will just crab across the field. Somebody has to penetrate. you listen to forwards commentating on back play.
As for your chosen man Watermeyer, he made 30 m in 6 runs, all of which came on the try running through open field...and he missed 3 of his 8 tackles. Man you sure know how to pick 'em.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Feb 2014, 00:44
#4
23 Feb 2014, 00:44#4

Mozart


That is ridiculous.   What does penetration mean when you carry the ball all the time - never pass it - and die with the ball 1 meter further.  That is not penetration - that is clueless and mindless play.  


Steyn did not penetrate anything - if he did it was understandable.  The only thing he did was to put his team under pressure.   Somebody had to protect the ball when he mindlessly crashballed every time he got the ball and they were not always there - meaning that the Hurricanes could turn over the ball or collect penalties..  


I do not mind if he from time to time try and penetrate - but to do it every time he got the ball is not only predictable for the opposing team - but rank stupidity.  


And don't blame Lambie - he did what was expected of him - Steyn did not.   I would not have been so upset - but for the fact that he did exactly the same last year and it ended up in chaos for backline play.   I have never in my life seen a number 12 center in a game never passing a ball to the number 13  or any player outside of him like Steyn did today.


At least Watermeyer carried the ball for a distance.  Steyn never passed the ball to Jordaan to see whether he cannot do something with it - so he had no opportunity to do anything.  Engelbrecht was useless and Sadie was the only option other than Watermeyer.    Incidentally on the only occasion Jordaan got the ball from Lanbie - he did something with it - not bugger all like Steyn did.            

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
23 Feb 2014, 00:53
#5
23 Feb 2014, 00:53#5
In running play, the only thing Lambie does is pass. That puts enormous burdens on the inside centre...if there is a fair criticism of Morne, it's exactly that. Both fly halves don't do enough with the ball to givetime and space to the players outside them. 
The fact that Jean regularly cracks the defence says  volumes about his play. Jean is the only SA centre that can regularly break through tight defences all on his own. Bok supporters haven't figured this out, perhaps they will when he is gone. Today in the same dilemma Fransie was pretty decent.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Feb 2014, 01:20
#6
23 Feb 2014, 01:20#6

Mozart


What was decent about todays effort of Steyn?  It was grossly inadequate.  


I know Morne always had a problem -he stood too deep in the pocket, stood still when he received the balls and was slow in passing balls way behind the gain line turning any passes he made into hospital passes. 


Lambie stands much flatter, occasionally attack the gain line himself and pass the ball quicker and flatter whilst on the move.  In one case where he cut out Steyn today there was quite a good attacking move made.


I think that you are trying to find an excuse for what Steyn did today.  There was no penetration - zilch.  He  just hog the ball like his life depended on it doing nothing of value with it,  but to put his teammates under pressure in another maul.   If he did it a few times and it failed - nobody would have qualms about it - but he did it every time he got the ball.   


Really Mozart -- a backline player cannot be a robot that does the same thing over and over again.   I always said that Steyn is not a thinking player - and today proved it again.


Last year he did exactly the same until Plumtree could not take it anymore.  I wonder how long White will be prepared to put up with it?  Probably when they lose their first match because of Steyn - remember the Brumbies game last year.   Steyn would find him on the bench again.  I thought that White would get some sense into him - but it does not look like that is possible.



MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
23 Feb 2014, 01:33
#7
23 Feb 2014, 01:33#7
 Woosh
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Feb 2014, 01:58
#8
23 Feb 2014, 01:58#8

Mozart


Woosh does not eliminate facts 

HA
hakwaPro4,146 posts
23 Feb 2014, 02:29
#9
23 Feb 2014, 02:29#9
 Savea let Jordaan run around him FYI - it's those little mercies we give to you guys every now and then. 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
23 Feb 2014, 05:27
#10
23 Feb 2014, 05:27#10
Little mercies like a Canes scrum with only a reverse gear?
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
23 Feb 2014, 09:20
#11
23 Feb 2014, 09:20#11

Canes were living off scraps. Sharks should have done much better. Supposed to be one of the top teams but didn't show it in this game.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Feb 2014, 09:39
#12
23 Feb 2014, 09:39#12

 Just Win


You are 100% correct - the Sharks were undermined by one poor player - Francois Steyn.  He tried desperately to keep the Canes in the game - but his sabotage play did not work. 


It shows what the other teams have to do to neutralize the Sharks - just hope Steyn hogs the ball and go for the resultant turnovers in possession and penalties. 

HA
hakwaPro4,146 posts
23 Feb 2014, 10:26
#13
23 Feb 2014, 10:26#13
 Mozie, it's an automatic car with Hammet at the wheel so what do you expect? It's very easy to put it into reverse 
ST
Sun-TzuClub Pro713 posts
23 Feb 2014, 13:02
#14
23 Feb 2014, 13:02#14
Jean hasn't exactly been a model 12 over the years, but the fact does remain that at the Stormers he has never had a quality 10 inside him and when with Lambie has had nothing. LiarMike was dis-proven regarding Frans aready. It didn't like what the stats said, that he passed, ran, made the hard yards and beat defenders in every game as well as offered the offload - something that only he offers of all our would be inside centres. I was c urious to see how he would read last weeks game, because Frans created space for that excellent try off a lineout. It essentially reflects everything that LiarMike knows about the game, numbers. He cannot read an actual game so he reverts to numbers to form some kind of discernment. He is essentially always wrong. My suggestion is to save yourself the trouble of responding to him, it just gives him a platform to lie.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Feb 2014, 13:26
#15
23 Feb 2014, 13:26#15

Sun Tzu



I will not mince words on your complete bullshit and describe what Steyn did yesterday.


Here is what he did yesterday-


*   He never once passed a ball to any player outside of him and h0gged the ball like his life depended on it.


*  he got the ball 18 times - he kicked it twice - and ran with it 11 times;


*  the 11 times he made "the hsrd yards" his territory gain was 16 meters -

ie less than 1,5 meters per carry - no hard yards there.


*  he lost possession of the ball 3 times as a result of turnover in possession  and was penalized twice for hanging onto the ball


*  his defence was putrid - he attempted 7 tackles, made 5 and missed 2 for a miss tackle ratio of over 28%. 


The fuckwit Steyn could not be worse if he tried desperately.

    

I used the numbers - but I can tell you this - halfway through the game I started cursing and never stopped and the sole cause of it was Steyn.  Numbers do not lie it tells you what happened during the game.   Floral descriptions by people like you are outright distortions. 


  

 

MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
23 Feb 2014, 14:33
#16
23 Feb 2014, 14:33#16
@mikey,

i see frans steyns role as something similar to nonu, a player who is used to get the ball on the frontfoot and over the advantage line, so that the rest of the sharks can continue building the phases.

it would be a bonus if steyn penetrated the line a lot more, but that would apply to everyone who carries the ball.
but for now, being strong in the contact with ball in hand and ensuring the sharks get over the advantage line is the big guys No1 goal.

with jordaan as his centers partner, sharks are very fortunate to have two different set of skills, as it gives them a wider range of options in many areas.

steyn is looking very fit in 2014, by my visual guesstimation, it looks like hes dropped 5-10 kgs since last year, and im sure in time he will produce performances which will have u singing his praises, :o)
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
23 Feb 2014, 14:45
#17
23 Feb 2014, 14:45#17
I am sure CleverMike is anxious to demonstrate he is not bias & can (when the stats clearly tell the story) change his view on a player.  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Feb 2014, 14:58
#18
23 Feb 2014, 14:58#18

Sasue


Let me be explicit.  I have no problem with the idea of Steyn trying to get forward ball for any team he plays in - but there should be variation in play and anything he does should be well-coordinated to ensure that balls are not lost and that he is not penalized for holding on balls.  


Even if he does it 50% of the time it would be acceptable - 100% like he did yesterday is totally unacceptable    Players must never be robotic - it helps opposing teams massively.


Steyn got down in weight from 117 kgs to 106 kgs - ie a massive 12 kgs.  Jis brain came down to half a ounce at the same time.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
23 Feb 2014, 23:15
#19
23 Feb 2014, 23:15#19
Yep that was a nice beating of Savea, but thankfully I have no prejudice against Jordaan and wont be labeling that beating of Savea as an 'accidental step'.....it was Jordaan's only good contribution of the game.......for the rest he was pretty anonymous in a dominating Sharks side.

Moz, I notice you have failed to mention Serfontein's beating of the defender on the outside......once again proving he is not only about the inside step. In atrocious conditions, Serfontein was SA's best 12 on the day.


Cant say any SA centres stood out on the day.......it was pretty flat all round



CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
24 Feb 2014, 00:37
#20
24 Feb 2014, 00:37#20

Saffex


Just one question -  what could Jordaan do without the  ball ever been passed  to him - or for that matter any of the other players outside of Francois Steyn - since Steyn never once let the ball go past him in any backline move.   Steyn  was incredible - I have never in my life watch a game where a number twelve center handled a ball 18 times during a match and never once passed it to any players wider out than him.   Jordaan exactly got the ball once during the whole match and that was when Lambie cut out Steyn and passed the ball directly to him.


The center who sabotaged any potential backline play of the Sharks were the incredible ball hogging Steyn,    I have never in my life seen a worse display of ineffective ball hogging by any center in Super Rugby.


Everyone in rugby circles know that Steyn is the worst ball distributing center imaginable and the game on Saturday proved beyond  any doubt that that he is one of the worst players imaginable when it cones to playing of thinking rugby - a real robot - that repeatedly jeep the ball to himself and charge straight and ineffectively at the opposing  defender. 


And that in a game where his team dominated up front and got an abundance  of good balls and could have scored plenty more tries.     

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
24 Feb 2014, 01:02
#21
24 Feb 2014, 01:02#21
Frans was damn good again, is all I have to say.......I am not saying Jordaan could have done anymore......I am just pointing out to these clowns that seem to be hell bent on dissing JJ at every turn........that virtually every other centre on the day did as little as the other.......I only saw the SA games, that obviously included Conrad Smith for the Canes.........no centre stood out as they all good little action
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
24 Feb 2014, 01:15
#22
24 Feb 2014, 01:15#22

Saffex


The only good that Steyn did on Saturday was for the benefit of the Hurricanes - he very effectively sabotaged the Sharks backline by ineffective ball hogging and allowing the Hurricanes to steal the ball from him three times and giving away two penalties for hanging onto the ball,  


His contribution to the Sharks effort was near to zero.  Back to 2,5/10 for that effort= a really shockingly poor display coupled to poor defence - with a missed tackle ratio of nearly 29% . 


I myself dislike the determined efforts by some to try and discredit JJ and I think he will get better as the season progresses.  The real problem in the Bulls backline is not Serfontein and JJ - it is with their fly

half being out of dep th

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
24 Feb 2014, 01:46
#23
24 Feb 2014, 01:46#23
I doubt Fouche will start for the Bulls again at 10......being subbed at halftime should say it all.

Not sure what has happened to Fouche since returning from injury......he looks a different player. He missed most of last year through injury and looked pretty useful before that injury........cant say the same now......he has been the worst SA S15 player by some distance thus far.

As for Frans, I see your usually utter bullshit is starting early.......your rugby knowledge is very poor Mike and I mean that sincerely.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
24 Feb 2014, 01:55
#24
24 Feb 2014, 01:55#24

Saffex


My rugby knowledge is poor - b ut I can see clearly when a player fucked up wholesale like Steyn did on Saturday.  

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
24 Feb 2014, 02:00
#25
24 Feb 2014, 02:00#25
Sounds about as accurate as your call on Venter comprehensively outplaying Serfontein.......what a bloody joke.

I checked the stats for a laugh............Serfontein 14m gained, Venter 10m

Serfontein 3 defenders beaten, Venter 1 defender beaten

Serfontein 2 tackles missed, Venter 2 tackles missed

Just as I thought......you are speaking shit.......you just lie the whole time to try make a point but we just see through you with ease.

For the rest of the S15 season we are going to listen to you slagging off Frans - how pathetic and predictable 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
24 Feb 2014, 02:38
#26
24 Feb 2014, 02:38#26

Saffex


I gave Steyn top points last week for a good display - this week his performance was real shit.   If he performs well - I will always give him credit - if he fucked up like he did this week - I would not try and cover it up and give him credit.   I will always credit him for good performances - but not otherwise.


Serfontein and Venter - what was the missed tackle ratio?

— END OF THREAD —

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