JP Pietersen - Is he available for the RC?

In reality t he situation is you were calling him a disaster at 13 and then he ended up being the MOM. But that's a familiar situation.

 Mozart
Stop being an insufferable fool.   I said that Pietersen is not a center and whether some foll makes him man of the match means nothing.   His defensive lines as a center is not correct and he therefore misses far too many tackles. 
He is at best a stop gap center - like he was in 2012 for the Sharks. I rate him highly as a wing - not as a center.
  
 

 He was MOTM because the minister of sport was at the match and he had the correct pigment of skin. Lood De Jager, Pollard, Serfontein and Le Roux were all played better than JP, especially Lood De Jager.

 He may not have warrante man of the match for the reasons you mention Cheaser BUT he still ahd a very good game and is settling in well at center. Ou maaaikie you are on the wrong track here. I have seen nothing wrong with his defence in these three tests.JP is not really quite quick enough for a wing. He wants to play center and he is geting better all the time

Meyer said that JP plays outside centre for his team in Japan, and that he actually prefers the position. 
JP is fast he just does not look very fast, although now days he may be a bit short on pace for a Bok winger. He is a big unit which is useful for a centre to dominate collisions in traffic. 
He actually appears to have a decent passing game given that most of his experience is at wing- hell many of our specialist centers cant even pass properly.
In regards to his defence, their has only been one game where the opposition have scored a decent amount of tries. I have noticed him getting exposed on positional play like JJ was last year, nor have I seen him tackle. His tackling seems pretty aggresive and knocks players back.

 Beeno
I am sorry - but he really is not settling in at center.  After watching th game a second time I noticed how many times his defense was seriously questionable and he did make one glaring handling error in trying to field a kick in ball.    The try he scored he was on the outside in the wing position and the other try he assisted with he got the ball in space - and then made a very good grubber kick.
I think a person needs to give him credit for what he did - but the evidence still indicates he is not a center - but a wing.    He attempted a total of 6 tackles of which he made 4 and missed 2.     This is because he is not getting the right lines in defense and is not really good enough.  Matter of fact for a center a missed tackle ratio of 33,3%  is no good.  
If he played on the wing he would be able to make all the tackles and not missed two of those.   The reason is that he would have the side line to force players to go inside and then be able to tackle them.  At center he has no outside line to assist him and the players  easily went past his inside.   It happened last week with Cuthbert and it happened yesterday as well.
It is very difficult to adjust from being a wing to be a center.  The runni ng lines both in attack and defense differ and it is not easily handled by a wing.     I would be very worried if Pietersen is played as a center against the Aussies and the AB's - they will make mince meat of his defense.  
That would not happen to a player like De Allende who is used to playing at center - but very few wings can adjust to play at center and it does not look like Pietersen is one of those.           

 So you would not have moved Folau from wing to fullback....or Monty from centre to fullback...or habana from centre to wing. Nah those guys clearly flopped.

 Mozart
As per normal = your examples are illogical and mixed up badly.   Folau came fro m Aussie league and was used at full back by the Waratahs.   He played a few games on the wing for the Wallabies - but never for the Waratahs where he always played at full back.   He never was as successful at wing as he was at full back and this year he was selected as a full back for the Wallabies as well.   Golau was a full back from the date eh came into the Waratahs team - and his short sojourn on the wing was basically not as good as he was at full back.
Monty was a Center for the Springboks and then was moved to full back by Mallett.  He then went to Wales and continued to play at full back.   It took a number of years at full back for the Welsh Club before eh really adjusted to full back - where he finished his career.
Habana never played at center ion provincial or higher level - was always a wing on higher level.  He played on school and junior level at center.
Both Habana and Monty was always ball sense players who normally find it easier to afjust to different positions.   Pietersen is more a physcal player and adjustment had as much real chance of success as the adjustment of JJ was to play at center.       
However, we are dealing here with playing a player who at school level played at center and his senior career for many years were always on the wing.    That does not mean that without years of experience he would not succeed as a center.   The Sharks tried him at center in 2012 and after three months realized it did not work out and brought in Jordaan - moving Pietersen back to wing - where he was much more successful.
              .   

 Mozart
As per normal = your examples are illogical and mixed up badly.   Folau came fro m Aussie league and was used at full back by the Waratahs.   He played a few games on the wing for the Wallabies - but never for the Waratahs where he always played at full back.   He never was as successful at wing as he was at full back and this year he was selected as a full back for the Wallabies as well.   Golau was a full back from the date eh came into the Waratahs team - and his short sojourn on the wing was basically not as good as he was at full back.
Monty was a Center for the Springboks and then was moved to full back by Mallett.  He then went to Wales and continued to play at full back.   It took a number of years at full back for the Welsh Club before eh really adjusted to full back - where he finished his career.
Habana never played at center ion provincial or higher level - was always a wing on higher level.  He played on school and junior level at center.
Both Habana and Monty was always ball sense players who normally find it easier to afjust to different positions.   Pietersen is more a physcal player and adjustment had as much real chance of success as the adjustment of JJ was to play at center.       
However, we are dealing here with playing a player who at school level played at center and his senior career for many years were always on the wing.    That does not mean that without years of experience he would not succeed as a center.   The Sharks tried him at center in 2012 and after three months realized it did not work out and brought in Jordaan - moving Pietersen back to wing - where he was much more successful.
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 " Habana never played at center ion provincial or higher level - was always a wing on higher level.  He played on school and junior level at center."

I gave proven you wrong so many times and every time you have some bullshit attempt at ducking and diving. Let me see you getting out of this one straight from the horse' mouth on Twitter:


Bryan Habana ?@BryanHabana 9 Aug 2011

I started off as a scrumhalf.. Played currie cup rugby at 13....

Folau started as a wing....in a different code. But man did he struggle.

Ceradyne
When did that happen - 10 years ago or more?  So what makes it pertinent in any event?  You are a dolt - this is not even an argument here.  It is moving a wing to a center.  In any event Habana never played on Super series level as a center - his best position through the years has always been on the wing.   So why is he even in contention here.
Mozart quoted three examples - but none where he player was moved from wing to center or from full back to center.   That never worked out well in SA rugby.   They tried it with Pietersen previously for the Sharks and changed it after 3 months.   They tried it with Taute and JJ and it did not work out at all.
There are some ball sense players that can fit in in various positions in the backline - but those are very rare cases and not one of our top players can male that transition.   They tried it with Pollard last year in France - playing him at 12 - and the result was not good either.  
Like per normal - you are slipping and slipping badly.  Morne Steyn, Matfield, Bakkies Botha - you name a Bulls or ex-Bulls player and they are going one way and that is DOWN.    

       

Umaga. Robinson. Larkham. .....all players who were moved and had great success. Hell  even Willie has moved seemlessly from wing to fullback. This idea that players cant be moved is nonsense...JP is in the middle of a successful move.

 Balls - that is all I can say.  I do not say players can be moved to center from wing or full back - but it does n ot work out and did not work out in 2012 when Pietersen was moved to center as well.   You are talking utter tripe in this case and ignoring facts.  He is not in the middle of a successful move and by the CR that would be proved to be a fact.   
What a load of baloney we have here - an interim arrangement made because of injury to other players and now it is suddenly a successful move.    
In any event - Pietersen's defense at 13 is on par with or even worse than JJ's - so what makes it a successful move?

Three letters for you OOM......it's almost an anagram.....M...O...M 

Oops - I forgot another veteran from 2007 =- so obviously Mozart will think that anything involving Pietersen will be successful without any question.  This is hilarious.   

clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11421 RE: JP Pietersen - Is he available for the RC?
June 30, 2014, 03:19:38 Ceradyne
When did that happen - 10 years ago or more?  So what makes it pertinent in any event?  You are a dolt - this is not even an argument here.  It is moving a wing to a center.  In any event Habana never played on Super series level as a center - his best position through the years has always been on the wing.   So why is he even in contention here.
You just cannot bring yourself to accept when you were wrong, can you? This was what you have said:

"Habana never played at center ion provincial or higher level - was always a wing on higher level.  He played on school and junior level at center."

The fact is that Habana was essentially a centre. Jake White took him on tour for an EOYT, in 2004 and at that stage, he was still contracted to the Lions and was playing for them at centre. Jake had him  on the bench for his début against England, and replace JDV with him and he scored a try. He selected him  in the starting xv for the next test against Scotland, also on the wing. He then signed with and it was only at the Bulls that he first played provincial rugby at the wing.

As for the rest of the argument between you and Mozart over this, it does not change the fact that you started your argument about Habana on the wrong facts/assumptions, which makes anything thereafter quite dodgy.

 
Selecting quotas even extends to the MOM these days.

They have no shame.

Then you have idiots like Faggot who goes along with it as though it's justified.

 

 After being in the Bok set-up on merit since 2007, JPP has suddenly become a quota player?

If Habana did play at center a decade ago in matches for the Lions and one match from the bench for the Springboks at center - that does not mean anything in the context of the argument.  He made his name on the wing - not as a Center at all.
Nobody would ever consider Habana to play at center at present - that is what counts - not what happened when the player was 21 years old and basically just starting his playing career.   You may be too dim to realize - but the argument here is aboput Pietersen being played at center - not about Habana and Monty at all.   This was just one of Mozart's diversions to cover up his flawed arguments.  
What really is putrid is that you and Mozart lives in the past and constantly hearken back to 2004 up to 2007.   What makes it worse is that you keep on harping about Bulls and Ex-Bulls players as if they were the best players to be selected.   Most are way past it and should be earning a decent pension by playing club rugby - and stay away from the test scene as far as possible.   They are just not up to standard anymore.  Even their clubs relaize it and mostly play them from the bench - eg Morne Steyn and Gurthro Steenlamp.   Time for you to get over sick provincialism in rugby and start thinking beyond that  

Folau was exposed at fullback last year. He tried to run everything, because he has no other tools in the box and was, alongside Flayed Blooper, the biggest weakness amongst the backs if not overall! Was gased on defence, mostly helpless. Far less promising than Mogg.

 
Come now Buggered!!! Your exposing yourself as a complete idiot.

Any one with at least one braincell will tell you that there's no comparing the brilliant Folau and the average Mogg.

As for for having no tools ... he's brilliant in the air, has a good kicking game, off loads beautifully, especially in contact, has a great step, a lot of pace, is hard to bring down, get's incredible go forward, tends to carry four or five players with him for another 5m meters before going to ground, plays well off the likes of Beale, can read the game like a veteran, scores try's almost at will ...

Only in your mind is he poor, Buggered!!

I rate him the best 15 in world rugby today.

 

 

clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11423 RE: JP Pietersen - Is he available for the RC?
June 30, 2014, 10:29:59 If Habana did play at center a decade ago in matches for the Lions and one match from the bench for the Springboks at center - that does not mean anything in the context of the argument.  He made his name on the wing - not as a Center at all.
Habana was settled as the Lions outside centre when he was selected for the Bok squad. That was exactly why he made the Boks squad, or did you think that JW spotted him in the UJ "koshuisliga"? How relevan it is at present, is of no importance. You made a mistake and do not have the balls to admit it. You never do. You jump around calling names, etc but you regularly make a fool of yourself. Remember how you fabricated a story, and started a whole thread of bullshit, from a picture that you saw? Want to revisit that?

 Sun Tzu
Anyone thinking that Folau was a flop at full back - must have a serious consultation with his shrink - there are serious things wrong in his top storey and an absolute lack of understanding of rugby as a game.  

 Folau ran back nearly every ball and was mostly turned over. He allowed the Boks to exert a considerable amount of pressure. He can step, yes, he can cpass, of course, but he has shown nothing more then that. He was rounded easily many times and in each every case a try was scored. I saw nothing of that boot and saw sparce accounts of that aerial ability. He is raw at best, certainly not a complete 15. Wales and Ireland have better, Willie is better, Dagg is better, Kirchner outperformed him throughout 2013. No, Folau is simply Australia's Lambie. I think they are afraid to say anything negative in case he runs off in a huff back to league like all the others. But inflating that reputation is never a good thing. Some say Cooper is the best 10 in the world, some say Lambie is... it means little in the end and Folau like they never established himself against the Southern Hemisphere giants. The closest Australia came to beating any of them last year was when Mogg and Toomua were on the field!

 Sun Tzu
A shrink would help - but an eye test would even be better.   There is an argument in rugby circles which is the ebst full back in world rugby today and three names come up regularly  - namely Israel Foleu, Ben Smith and Willie le Roux.   
Maybe you can explain away the fact that Folau scored more Super 15 and test tries this year than any other player ?