MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
15 Sept 2014, 02:00#2
No you would have thought that...JP would give us an outside centre that can do more than make routine tackles
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
15 Sept 2014, 02:48#3
Ah yeah and what exactly did JP do with ball in hand playing 13 for the Boks a few weeks ago - a big fat ZERO.
Given Meyers praise of Serfontein and Pollard I don't see JP at 13 in a hurry unless passenger Jean is dropped and Jan is restored to his rightful spot as the Bok 12
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
15 Sept 2014, 03:12#4
Get your foot out your mouth while you are viewing this. While Steppie is picking up 5 metres per game...this was JP in the final Wales test.
CPietersen0/000/2/55212017/20/000/0
Five runs, two defenders beaten, one clean break .... 52 metres. Kiss Stepfontein goodbye.
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
15 Sept 2014, 03:21#5
Ooh wow Wales vs NZ and are you sure that was the final test old man, the one where the Boks got owned. Try again.......you can't compare a test against NZ to one against Wales you fool.
JP failed at outside centre everyone concluded that. Serfontein is going nowhere given how poor JP was defensively at 13
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
15 Sept 2014, 03:40#6
Oops perhaps I made a mistake.....let's see....nah, you are just chancing your arm again, it was the difficult Welsh test.
Let me help you with a bit of logic. jP wasn't brought back without a reason. No doubt HM feels a passiive centre who presents no threat at all drags down the whole backline. steppie is toast for the home games.

sharkbok
Captain23,294 posts

sharkbokCaptain23,294 posts
15 Sept 2014, 04:28#7
JP will offer more on attack as an outside centre than Serfontein.
Although it did seem that Serfontein was lined up an inside centre allot of the time.
I think Serfontein is without doubt the best defensive centre in South Africa. He is made of steel and his positional play on defence is very good.
A cente combination of Serfontein and Jaque Fourie would be an extremely good defence, although not sure they would offer that much in attack. I dont see Serfontein pass the ball much.
Jean has not been producing the form of last year. When ever a player is old and they have a bad patch- it is allways going to seem that they might be past it. So he needs to prove his doubters wrong or be disposed off. I suppose that would mean Matield would become captain.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Sept 2014, 04:36#8
Mozart
JP is no outside center and his defense is seriously compromised in that position. He has been a problem in that regrd all along - so that is not going to happen. If it does it will be in one test and that would eb the end of the story.
JP had one good run and for the rest he showed zero in attack and his defense le in a number of tries. It would be one of the great mistakes of Meyer if he is given another go at center.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
15 Sept 2014, 04:51#9
Oom he is not being brought into replace Hendricks...he is being brought in to replace Steppie. And honestly the thought of Jean plus JP just giives one much more confidence. SB I take your point that Jean hasn't proven himself in his three matches back.....but Steppie hasn't beaten a tackle in two RC tests.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Sept 2014, 05:03#10
Mozart
With De Villiers being losing out in defense and even your above stats indicating the same in respect of Pietersen - there is one huge gap in the backline defense in evidence. The above defense stats is not the full indicater though. Pietersen was beaten a a number of times in both tests in June where he did not even attempt a tackle and that was not given as missed tackles.
The one thing that is wrong with Pietersen is lack of pace - that is why he was beaten in tackles - and that is not going away.
Meyer will try and use him at 13 - and it is NOT going to work out and wuill only cause further problems and will not be the answer in any event.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
15 Sept 2014, 05:48#11
Oh balls. If JP was the player trying to take McCaw over the touchline and not Steppie....he would have gone over the touchline. There is a difference between a bunch of process tackles and match winning defence in open field.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Sept 2014, 08:10#12
Mozart
Balls - - Pietersen has serious defense problem at 13 - and that is unfortunately a fact.
JEJeromeV
Club Pro492 posts
15 Sept 2014, 09:10#13
In truth Meyer doesn't realise the ineffective scrum half's are making it difficult for the team to launch certain approaches in matches. The replacement isn't too ideal for a few reasons which I am about to make - Firstly Serfontein at 12 and De Allende at 13 is the solution so JP is not needed at centre nor is he needed on the wing because Hendricks is on form, in essence there is no place for JP to slot in to the starting team. The replacement had to be Cobus Reinach who can offer a lot at scrum half with various of different skill sets, which is what we need. Meyer is doesn't have any idea.
Serfontein at 13 isn't the problem in the centre paring, it is in fact De Villiers who really should be getting more criticism.
PAPakie
Captain17,321 posts
15 Sept 2014, 10:21#14
De Allende hasn't shown anything in his two tests so far to suggest that he is the solution to anything. We need to see a lot more of him at test level before we can start calling him a "solution".
PAPakie
Captain17,321 posts
15 Sept 2014, 11:08#16
Yep, I'll concede the poor conditions. I'm not saying he doesn't have potential, I just won't call him a solution yet. Strong ball carrier, but there's a little more to playing 13 at test level than that, especially defensively. The jury is still out for me, but I won't mind seeing him get another chance.
15 Sept 2014, 11:23#17
Matfield had a cracker of a match.
His work rate was immense. He was good on defense ... very busy in the tight loose ...his wizardry in the lineout was clearly visible ... a valuable asset to the side.
He deserves his spot in the starting 15 and for an 37 going 38 year old man has shown himself as something quite special.
Impressive fitness levels.
I stand corrected.
I reckon our lock pair has been sorted. Now to just find a suitable replacement for the useless Lood.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Sept 2014, 11:43#18
CC
I do think that you have go ne crackers with your last post about Matfield. Matfield was not very busy in the Tight 5 - hisball carries were nonp-existent. He made tackles - but the quality was poor and he missed enough tackles as well. I would have given him 10 out of 10for klline out work - but he fumbled the line out5 meters out - which was supposed to be the start of a driving maul.
Sad to say - but he fails as a Tight 5 player - other than in line outs. We cannot afford a Tight 4 combination as we have at present. We ned to get a rplacement for Matfuield - he has been a dead loss from a scrumming and maul perspective.
15 Sept 2014, 12:12#20
Disagree Mike.
May I suggest you open your eyes when watching rugby. It'll help you see a little clearer and then you can come aboard here and give a proper assessment instead of the nonsense you've posted above.
Currently he IS the best 5 lock we have in the country.
Adriaan Strauss was very comfortable with Matfield's calls. In fact he didn't miss one. He shouldn't have been subbed for Bismarck who couldn't find his jumpers properly and put a lot of pressure on our own put in. You can't blame Matfield for that.
I know you probably will ... but hey that's the usual one eyed Mike doing his thing.
Like I said ... Lood needs to be sent packing. Never liked him ... never will.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Sept 2014, 12:28#21
Lets have a look atthe stats of De Allende in the two tests played by him:-
de Allende0/002/2/65412000/20/000/0
de Allende0/001/2/53311035/10/000/0
Looking at the above - it is clearly evident that he was the only SA center who had any effect on attacking play by the cany of the centers involved. He rarely saw the ball in both matches played - but when he got he ball - at least he did something with it.
Granted he missed 2 tackles in the first game - and that counts against him. His three ball losses in thes econd game came baout since there was no ball protection when he got tackled and there were turnovers as a result.
I do noit think De Allende had as bad a start in his test career as he is made out to have had - especially sicne he was playing out of position at 13 for the first time since his school years.
Lets look at the statts of our other two centers as well:-
Jean de Villiers
Against Argentina
de Villiers0/001/5/61500011/00/020/0
de Villiers0/100/3/2900105/00/010/0
Against Australia
de Villiers0/000/4/727120012/20/020/0
Against New Zealand
de Villiers0/001/2/102710019/40/000/0
Jan Serfontein
Against Australia
Serfontein0/101/1/43000218/00/000/0
Against New Zealand
Serfontein0/000/1/45000119/20/010/0
The problem is with both attacking and defensive play. De Villiers was ineffective this year. In the four tests he played in he had 25 ball carries making a total of 78 meters in total for an avergae territory gain of 3,12 meters per carry - in other words he showed near to zero in attacking play. From an attacking perspective Serfontein was even worse. He crried the ball 8 times for a meter gain of 8 meters - ie 1 meter gain per carry. At least in that repsect De Allende was consideruibly better than the other two centers - he carried the ball 11 times for a meter gain of 87 meters - ie an average ain of 7,9 meters per carry.
Although Serfontein was excellent in defence - he is a no 12 center and not suitable as a 13. To my mind the situation is that both De Villiers and Serfontein compete for the no 12 jersey - and the no 13 is in fact wide open.
It are question mark in respect of either De Allende or Pietersen. Pietersen is not as effective as De Allende is in carying balls - he had 12 crries making 72 meters in the June tests - ie an average of 6 meters per carry. From a defense perpsective De Allende missed two tackles in his first test and only one in his second test - indeed a negative - while there is also serious question marks about the defense of Pietersen. The main problem is the lack of pace that Pietersen encountered this year - he is losing pace at an alarming rate and playing in Japan is not helping that either. That adds to the defense problem.
On the whole I think that Pietersen is not an investment in the future and that he is not going to deliver the goods. I would also say that De Villiers have gone down badly in performances this year and that 2014 will be effectively his last year in international rugby.
Since the upcoming two tests are in a dead ruubber - i would play Serfontein and De Allende at center and see whther that would not be the future solution.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Sept 2014, 12:28#22
Lets have a look atthe stats of De Allende in the two tests played by him:-
de Allende0/002/2/65412000/20/000/0
de Allende0/001/2/53311035/10/000/0
Looking at the above - it is clearly evident that he was the only SA center who had any effect on attacking play by the cany of the centers involved. He rarely saw the ball in both matches played - but when he got he ball - at least he did something with it.
Granted he missed 2 tackles in the first game - and that counts against him. His three ball losses in thes econd game came baout since there was no ball protection when he got tackled and there were turnovers as a result.
I do noit think De Allende had as bad a start in his test career as he is made out to have had - especially sicne he was playing out of position at 13 for the first time since his school years.
Lets look at the statts of our other two centers as well:-
Jean de Villiers
Against Argentina
de Villiers0/001/5/61500011/00/020/0
de Villiers0/100/3/2900105/00/010/0
Against Australia
de Villiers0/000/4/727120012/20/020/0
Against New Zealand
de Villiers0/001/2/102710019/40/000/0
Jan Serfontein
Against Australia
Serfontein0/101/1/43000218/00/000/0
Against New Zealand
Serfontein0/000/1/45000119/20/010/0
The problem is with both attacking and defensive play. De Villiers was ineffective this year. In the four tests he played in he had 25 ball carries making a total of 78 meters in total for an avergae territory gain of 3,12 meters per carry - in other words he showed near to zero in attacking play. From an attacking perspective Serfontein was even worse. He crried the ball 8 times for a meter gain of 8 meters - ie 1 meter gain per carry. At least in that repsect De Allende was consideruibly better than the other two centers - he carried the ball 11 times for a meter gain of 87 meters - ie an average ain of 7,9 meters per carry.
Although Serfontein was excellent in defence - he is a no 12 center and not suitable as a 13. To my mind the situation is that both De Villiers and Serfontein compete for the no 12 jersey - and the no 13 is in fact wide open.
It are question mark in respect of either De Allende or Pietersen. Pietersen is not as effective as De Allende is in carying balls - he had 12 crries making 72 meters in the June tests - ie an average of 6 meters per carry. From a defense perpsective De Allende missed two tackles in his first test and only one in his second test - indeed a negative - while there is also serious question marks about the defense of Pietersen. The main problem is the lack of pace that Pietersen encountered this year - he is losing pace at an alarming rate and playing in Japan is not helping that either. That adds to the defense problem.
On the whole I think that Pietersen is not an investment in the future and that he is not going to deliver the goods. I would also say that De Villiers have gone down badly in performances this year and that 2014 will be effectively his last year in international rugby.
Since the upcoming two tests are in a dead ruubber - i would play Serfontein and De Allende at center and see whther that would not be the future solution.