June Bok team

This would be my recommendation for the June Bok team (Players current form being a impact on my decisions and relying on newly recovered players form being decent).

15. Ludik (I want to say Fransie but he isn't good enough at the moment but I hope he will be by June)

14. Willie Le Roux (Aplon to be considered?)

13. Jean De Villiers 

12. Serfontain (I believe he'll be able to make the step up with Fransie as a replacement option)

11. JP (Hopefully he would've got over his recent bout of laziness with Rhule as a replacement option)

10. Lambie (I hope he begins to play his natural game again, Morne as replacement option due to form and would've by then formed a link with Serfontain and may help the youngster ease into test rugby)

9. Pienaar (haven't heard much from him the past few months, Reinach to be replacement option)

8. Vermeluen (He's a favourite of mine, Walt as replacement)

 7. Burger (He'll be back, Lappies to be replacement option, Alberts to not be forgotten)

6. Louw (He's become a very good player, Brussouw to be considered)

5. Bekker (He is both David and Goliath, Du Tiot to be considered)

4. Etzebeth (World beater, Jager to be considered)

3. Jannie (Malherbe and Coenie considered)

2. Bismark (easy decision with Strauss a brilliant backup)

1. Coenie (Beast as replacement option and Nykane for experience and such)

This is catering for Habana's injury (sadly I'm not a fan of Heever) with the fullback and outside center position being one of the harder decisions. I'm also not a huge fan of Cat either!

Some interesting picks. Failing anything improving, I might try Willie at fullback. I'd play van den Heever at right wing. My guess is Serfontein is for next year....but I could be wrong.

In the pack the Beast has had some huge games...he is a must. Much as I am a Schalk fan, I had meningitis, the milder viral kind, and he has a long struggle ahead of him. I'd say the blind side flank is up in the air. Likewise Bismarck....it may be a while and Strauss is probably the starter until Bismarck proves he is Bismarck.

 My side would be:

15. Taute 14. JP 13. Serfontein 12. Frans 11. JJ 10. Lambie 9. Hougaard 1. Beast 2. Bismark 3. Jannie 4. Etzebeth 5. Bekker 6. Brussouw 7. Elstadt 8. Vermeulen 16. Reinach 17. de Allende 18. v/d Heever 19. Coenie 20. Strauss 21. Steph du Toit  22. Kolisi

But I'd also be tempted with Serfontein at 12 and JJ at 13.

I would've liked to see Lappies play head to head with Richie or Pocock to see how well he would play, if he held his own and played as he has done I would pick him ahead of Schalk.

Either way we've got the 2 of the best hookers :) 

Forgot about Taute  

 Taute is a quality youngster, why on earth would we want to forget about him. The players you need to forget about are Schalk for a start. Ludik is no test 15, at best solid. Jean is not a 13, not even close

Ok

Lets look at the potential team both taking into account form and with due regard to injured players coming back.

I do think that some previous Springboks have effectively disqualified themselves due to very poor performances.  In this category we have Jantjies, Kirchner, Francois Steyn, Hougaard and fringe players like Werner Kruger and Jeandre Kruger.   I would have liked to see Taute in the setup as well - but his kicking game is atrociously bad - e missed line kicks and made them if he should not.       

15     Le Roux

14     Pietersen (showed nothing thus far - but with a disfunctional Steyn and a kicking Lambie never saw any balls)

13      De Villiers

12      Ebersohn

11      Van den Heever

10      Lambie - must gets back to his normal game

  9      Reinach (Pienaar was very average for Ulster - but we will see more of him this weekend in the Heinekin cup)

  8      Vermeulen

  7      Labuschagne - I left out Burger since he would have vrtually no game time before June and cannot be picked on reputation.  Alberts have not played this year as yet and the other contenders have not shown enough

   6      Louw

   5      Bekker

   4      Etzebeth

   3      Malherbe -   Jannie's scrumming was poor this year

    2     Bismarck

    1     Beast

Bench:

  16     Strauss

   17    Herbst

   18     Du Toit

   19    Botha

   20    Pienaar 

   21    Serfontein 

   22    Mvovo or Rhule

Pienaar's selection will depend on how he performs further in the Heineken Cup - but he is a player that can fill in as flyhalf as well,

Saffex

The two players not even close is Francois Steyn and Hougaard - they are fouling up their reputations badly and I think Meyer will go for the younger crowd who would be available for 2015

Mike don't write Steyn off yet! And I'd choose Rhule over Mvovo every time.

That's another play I've forgotten all about! Arno Botha.  

But a player you've forgotten about is Coenie.

Saffex, you need a mixture of young exciting prospects experianced players, Schalk has a paramount of this and also offers a leadership option.

Shezza

Sorry I messed up with Coenie - he rather than Herbst should be on the bench.

Steyn is not a consideration at center anymore and could at best come off the bench - mostly at full back.   His form is bad - so he is unlikely to make the grade again.  His performance at center is one- dimensional and he is not really an effective creator of space at all.   I was a great Steyn admirer - but he was disappointing last year and worse so far this year.  

Botha can cover 6 and 8 both and even 7 if needs be.   Du Toit can cover both the lock position as well as 7

 DomMike, your ignorance is as bright as ever.......Jannie struggling in the scrums this year - what a load of crap.

Imagine being stupid enough to select Ebersohn at 12 and Jean at 13 .......wow talk about selling Bok rugby short. 

Your Bok side is kak

Saffex

Is the team kak - because I did not inlude kak players like Steyn and Hougaard in the team?   Why not Ebersohn - he has something Steyn does not have - and that is ball sense.   And you can be sure De Villiers will captain the side - so he will be at 13.

The Sharks scrumming can at best be describe as shoddy - but I think Burden might have had a major hand in that.

In any event I said the selections are based on form - nothing else.   Your selections are based on imagination - definitely not form.    One question - did Hougaard and Steyn not sell the Springboks short last year?   Remember Hougaard was removed from scrummie and Steyn did NOTHING at all at center that can even be mentioned as acceptable.  

No DomMike, Frans was our best 12 last year and Meyer stuffed up by moving Hougaard to wing and replacing him with Pienaar who was poor.

Our Bok record under Meyer was poor and part of the reason was poor selections like moving Hougaard to wing.

Frans was also sadly missed as we had to make do with Jean and de Jongh - say no more

Saffex

I sometimes pity you - but as a lawyer you may know how to defend the defenceless.  What in heavens's name did Francois Steyn ahieved at 12 last year to be rated as the best 12.   I watched the games he played in repeatedly and could find anything at all of any play that could even remotely being classified as  showing class or even be regarded as acceptable - nothing in offence and nothing in defence.   He buggered up badly a number of times as well.   What really did he do to deserve the praise you so richly attributed to him.

You constantly harped about Hougaard as well.   Hougaard was moved for a variety of very valid reasons.   His kicking game was shockingly poor - his passing game on par with the kicking component and his reading of games desperately poor. You fail to see the shortcomings in this guy - because you do not want to ecognise it as deficiencies in performance.   I often sharply criticized Meyer about selections - but looking at Hougaard objectively he was correct there.

You still don't want to accept that Francois' Steyn is a dead loss at 12 - Plumtree was obviously diplomatic, but what he did say is that Steyn would have to play at full back in future.   That means playing Steyn  from the bench - since Plumtree is not about to play Steyn ahead of Ludick in that position.

I think it was Sas who provided evidence of Frans's contributions in last years tests and he was given higher player rating than the other Bok backline players, along with JP. In a kicking game plan, Frans carried the ball strongly and was huge on defence.

He was far better than hasbeen Jean. Your take on any centres play is a load of bullshit so you watching the games a 100 times would make no difference. You dont know what constitues a good centre - we all know that.

As for Plum saying Frans will only play 15, that is just another complete lie by yourself. I know exactly what Plum said, so no need to throw your lies into the equation. Frans will be back at 12 where he belongs.

As for Hougaard, he has never had an issue with his passing. He proved at the start of this S15 that he had by far the best service of all the SA 9's. His only issue under ignorant Meyer was the fact that he got charged down and could not execute the pathetic kick and chase game plan that Meyer employed. Meyer instead of embracing Hougaards skills, curtailed them into something robotic and insignificant and in the process reducing the Boks to a 67% record - it was piss poor.

here is my response on the orignal post

based on current form and the fact there is a lot of senior players going overseas and in my books that is a automatic unselection for the boks.

15. danillier (there is no other 15's there are sticking there hand up) taute is having a torrid time in the stormers jumper and anyone other than that i might consider ludik but ludik will be bombed into the stone age with up and unders by opposinig teams i reckon

14. Willie Le Roux (great player but wont feature in the meyer game plan) the real option will be JP peterson

13. Jean De Villiers (i pick will be jordaan but with the exp a real problem we might need his old wise head.

12. Serfontain only a couple of starts and cannot really be considerd ready for test rugby. he needs a few years. franna for me at number 12 but he needs skills and speed work to get up to speed with modern rugby. expect meyer to use him as a flank in the back line

11. Rhule...seeing that habana is chashing the overseas dollars he should not be selected in my view...mvovo to be backup

10. Lambie main option seeing as morne has middle fingered SA rugby with his departure...SHOULD NOT BE SELECTED AS HE IS NOT BASED IN SA.

9. Pienaar okish selection but once again not applying his trade in SA so why should he be picked ? reincach alot better and quicker ball skills. other option is nic groom. i love his service and hand speed and width of pass

8. Vermeluen picks himself....spies to inflate he practice balls

7. Burger...as brittle as ouma's rusks cant be a option without playing a game in 2 odd years seriously people.....alberts or the 100 odd other blindsiders that we have in SA

6. Louw......the bloke that got benched by the best open sider in world rugby brussouw to be first option...once again overseas based players SHOULD NOT BE EVEN SELECTED.....

5. Bekker picks himself....just hopes he can stay injury free

4. Etzebeth the best enough said

3. Jannie (mujati to be contracted to play in SA automatic backup selection when jannie goes to france)

2. Bismark (best hooker around but should also be ditched when he leaves this shores for france0

1. beast (coenie backup

i agree with mike that franna was complete shittttttttte this super rugby comp but i dont blame him but rather the wonderfull meyer as with his coaching style he tends to destroy the decision making players like the flyhalf and inside centers ablitys with his rigid penile limp methods

Saffex

How does it feel to live in a dream world like you do in the Steyn case?   My impresion was that Steyn did nothing exceptional at all - but I went urther and checked his stats for all the matches he played in.   It was revealing as is evidenced form the following:-

Ball carries             =         41 times

Meters gained         =         87

Defenders beaten   =          6

Tackles made         =         31

Tackles missed       =           5

He showed nothing in attack - making an average of 2,1 meters per carry.  Since he only beat 6 defenders in the six tests it means that he is normally tackled by the first defender he ran into.  He made no line breaks in six tests.  Carry the ball strongly in attack - ha bloody ha. 

Of the 36 tackles he had to make - he missed 5 - in other words he missed 14% of all tackles he was involved in.   10% could be a stretch of imagnation be ok - 14% is pure shit.   Another - ha bloody ha.

Listen carefully to the comments made in the last Sharks game and you will find out what Plumtree did say about Steyn's future usage.  

Ou DomMike and his worthless stats......no-one cares about your stats and I recall some poster on here showing you up with how poor your stats are. There was mention of Frans's offloads which your stats failed to mention.

Your stats provide no context. The Boks played a boring structured kicking game plan. They did not play attacking rugby. Frans carried the ball well in traffic and was huge in defence. He was sorely missed when we lost him.

I dont need to watch the game to know what Plum said about Frans, I know exactly what he said in his interview and one certainty is that he never said Frans would only play 15 in the future. Plum is not as stupid as you are

Saffex

I believe in facts not fiction - you believe in fiction not facts - that is the real difference between the two of us.  It is a democratice environment - so keep on dreaming of things that never happened if that adds to your happiness.

No Mike, the difference between us is that you have no idea what the facts are. For a start, it is a fact that Frans made the SA side of the week in week 1 of the S15 - that is not fiction. It is also a fact that he made the S15 side of the week in week 2. There is just no getting away from this very fact.

It is also a fact that you are too stupid to comprehend the above and even more stupid if you believe that Meyer and Plum all of a sudden believe Frans is a poor player aged 25 and has no future with the Boks at 12. 

But DomMike you keep believing all this crap and keep convincing yourself that your version of the events is in fact based on fact not fiction. Much like selecting Bosman as your 12 of the week - that about sums your rugby knowledge up - case closed as they say

Saffex

The so-called teams of the week are selected by journalists - not by rugby experts.  They often enough write what they think the public wants to hear and wih journalists it is normally the case.  I do not trust rugby scribes enough to put complete faith in them.   They are also experts in writing fiction - so what they write is really their perceptions coupled to their own preferences for certain players.  Fiction - my friend - fiction. 

By the way I saw sonething in the game on Saturday that draws my attention speciafically as to what a center can done - despite the so-called tight defences.   It was the linebreak made by Ebersohn precedding the tryy scored by Rhule.   The question remains - has in all the games since his return from France Steyn  made one break even remotely comparable?   The answer is no never - so put that in your pipe and smoke it. 

 Muncher, Serfontain to he used in a couple of years are you serious? If he can make the grade in super rugby, which he has he should be able to make the grade in Test rugby! Goosen proved this.

 Once again......it's not about who to pick. It's about who in our current team is vulnerable. To me that list is pretty short......Kirchner, de Jongh, Kruger and probably Alberts. The rest will in all probability be back. Habana seems to have made a fast recovery.....he is still miles ahead of anybody else.

DomMike, your take on rugby journalists is the biggest load of shit I have read in ages. These guys write about rugby because they know and love the game. They have taken their passion for the game a step further than us lot who voice our opinions on a messageboard.

They certainly carry far more rugby clout than an ignorant bafoon like yourself. Its a little insulting that you assert that these guys spend their time pandering to the whims of the public and are not able to formulate their own rugby opinions - what a load of crap.

As for Ebersohn making a break against the useless Rebels - wow. While on the subject of the Rebels, its worth noting that useless Bosman in a 10 try romp against the Rebels, was not able to make a single break, confirming what an average player he is.

What are the chances of Ebersohn making a break against Jean this weekend - a big fat zero

shezza the same old saying goes some people learn to swim by being thrown in the deep end and others tend to learn in the shallow side first. the minorty that learns to swim in the deep end are the far the minorty. goosen is pure class and yet he has not quite had the time to elevate himself to greatness it takes time. the serfontein is a great prospect but one cant really expect him to just jump into the role and be on top of it. going into a big crunch game with rather green side if you looks in terms of exp going forward is not the way forward nor is meyer bok gameplan going to aid his brillaint young player. there is a chance that his game will be destroyed.

i am not saying serfontein can do the job but he needs to be eased into the team. franna needs to get his playing style sorted out and fast.

1. Beast (Coenie needs to learn discipline)                                      

2. Bismarck (best in the world when in form and injury free)           

3. Jannie                                                                                           

4. Etzabeth

5. Bekker

6. Louw

7. Labuschagne (On current form theres no better)

8. Vermuellen

9. Pretorius (best attacking scrum half)

10. Lambie (Goosens injured)

11. Rhule

12. Steyn (poor form at the moment but still best option)

13. De Villiers (c)

14. JP Pietersen

15. Aplon (Lambie if goosen available)

15. Aplon (would be lambie if goosen available)

16. Strauss

17. Coenie

18. Elstadt

19. Brussow

20. Alberts

21. Pienaar

22. Taute

dan dan

I like your team very much and only have two problems.   You would notice that I really believe that Steyn brings nothing to the team as an effective attacking cener and is in fact a negative in the backline he plays in from that perspective.   I have serious doubts about him and it appears that I am not the only one who see problems in his performances.   Would much rather prefer Serfonein or De Allende as 12's than Steyn.

My other problem is with the scrummie.   Pretorius is like a jo-jo -  up one game and down the next one.   We are really struggling there - but we should not feel alone.   Genia is excellent - but all the other scrummies of all franchises have been disappointing.   Of our scrummies all have been up and down.  I had high hopes of Hougaard - but he is not better than the disappointment he was last year.   Reinach has one good game and one bad one - same as Pretorius.   We still may end up wit Pienaar - because the cupboard is nearly empty.

current form Bok team,,,

1 beast
2 a strauss
3 j du plessis
4 s du toit
5 a bekker
6 m coetzee
7 p labuschange
8 d vermeulen
9 f hougaard
10 p lambie
11 r rhule
12 JDV
13 r ebeherson
14 j taute
15 f steyn

16 chiliboy
17 s ferreria
18 s sykes
19 r elsdat
20 c reinach
21 j serfontein
22 jj englebrecht

there were a number of things players needed to be in my CURRENT forms Bok team, though not all of them were required preresquites.
- they must be in good form
- they must be proven at Bok level
- they must be based in SA

i think the Boks can afford a little leeway when selecting some players due to the quality of their opponents in june.

come the IRC and pending injuries of course, the one key component of my selections would be they must be based in SA.
1 beast, 2 bizzy, 3 j du plesiss, 4 e ezebeth, 5 a bekker, 6 m coetzee, 7 w alberts, 8 d vermeulen, 9 f hougaard, 10 p lambie, 11 r rhule, 12 f steyn, 13 jp pieterson, 14 g aplon 15 j taute
16 a strauss, 17 c osthuizen, 18 s du toit, 19 s labuschange, 20 c reinach, 21 e janties, 22 j serfontein

hard to pick a fly half to back up lambie based only in SA. was between morne and janties, janties has youth on his side while mornes got experience, prob better to devlelop a flyhalf for the future so i chose the lesser of two evils. fo course lambie would only be replaced if lambie was struck down by an injury or if the Boks had the game in the bag.

Sasue

Although I like Serfontein very much as a player - it is likely that he will be released to play in the Under 20 WC this year.   Although it seems as if the top New Zealand Juniors are  not always released for this compeititon - they are going to go all outto win this trophy again and Serfontein's experience in that team would be valuable, 

In that case it really is a pity that Swiel decided not to make himself available - but Pollard is playing very well in the Varsity Cup and will also be going to the Junior WC.   Looks like with Peteren and the new guy in the sevens team available - the Juniors will ave an excellent backline  this year,

Howeverm back to your selections - your pick of Steyn at full back is interesting to say the least.   Saffex will have heart failure - but that may just happen.

@mikey,
my selection of frans steyn at fullback is only for the june test series, ive always held the opinon that certain countries give certain teams a little leeway with selections, meaning they dont have to field their strongest team.
its why i couldnt understand how meyer wasted the EOYT by not trying new things on teams like scotland.

so when u look at the Boks team i named for the IRC, i would put frans steyn back at 12 i agree with the sentiments here saying that u shouldnt rule him out, but he does need to pull finger. IMO the Boks dont have anyone else they can put at 12. i wouldnt have any problems with JDV, but what he can produce plus what he has delivered for the Boks in the last year leaves me feeling its time to move on and start developing.

re u20:
NZRU only last year decided to rule out selecting players who were playing at spXV and ITM level, cos they wanted to develop the new younger bacth of players coming thru with a high intensity level of rugby.
tom penny in an interview released the names of 4 players in the spXV who would have been eligible and another 16 at ITM level.
if u can remeber how sam cane played during the irish test series, u would remember him being very impressive, now imagine if he had been allowed to play for the NZ u20 team??? he could have added so much playing in SA instead of him dominatiing ireland.

i think that serfontein has some real good skill sets which will develop further in the Boks enviroment, he can play in the u20s team and big a freaking shark in a small pond, or he can play in the Boks and start his baptisim by fire which could end up with him being the next big thing.
buyt meyer hasnt shown anything to suggest that he cares about anything past the immediate future, so look for f steyn and JDV to be the midfield again with prob de jong on the bench, lolz.

so why is timo sweil not available??? im disappointed with this bit of news, ive been hyping him up a bit on the NZ forums, i showed then that 10min clip and many folks were impressed with, was looking forward to see some of NZs um in coming stars go toe to toe with him and others.

Sasue

According to a newspaper report, Swiel decided not to play for any representative SA team since he has dual citizenship - both Britain and SA.  I think he is thinking that he could play for one of the overseas teams in future - but I think he is making a huge mistake.   The NH teams does not play the kind of rugby he plays and it is unlikely that he would get a decent overseas contract to play for any NH side.

The situation is that any SA player playing in any Springbok or JWC team cannot represent any other country in future - but it is not sure whether the newspaper report on him is true - he is still on contract with the Stormers and in their Super 15 squad and we will have to see whether what was reported is ever going to happen. 

Hope he is not eyed by New Zealand - they will need a decent flyhalf after the departure of Dan carter,.   LOL

 Mike,  I believe Timo knows he might be too small to get a Bok call up,  he is simply keeping his options open.  Every player wants to play in a RWC. I believe his first loyalty is to the boks, and if that fails he wants to be able to play for a different team.

PS. Surely Demetri must also be a bok hopeful. IMO he is way better than Elton.