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FORUM / RUGBY /  Just a Question to the NZ supporters on the Site - who was commentating

Just a Question to the NZ supporters on the Site - who was commentating

Started by clevermike17 REPLIES251 VIEWS· 27 May 2014, 12:06
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 May 2014, 12:06
#1
27 May 2014, 12:06#1

on the Blues-Sharks game?   Not a regular commentator I assume - at least hopefully not.


There were three funny incidents during that game - at least funny from a commentators assessment point of view.  Those were the following:-


*   The attacking Blues player is tackled meters from the tryline by Pietersen..  Oosthuizen is on his feet and immediately laid his hands on the ball and the Blues player hangs onto the ball and the referee penalized the Blues player for hanging onto the ball. The commentator goes dilly saying that is a huge problem - there is a ruck and the Sharks player is in contravention of the rules with hands in the ruck.   Wonder what he would have said if McCaw did exactly the same thing - matter of fact this always was one of McCaw's strong points?


*    Steyn tackled a player and stood up trying to win the ball from the tackled player and the commentator said he is off-side, which effectively he was not.  Reinach ended up scoring a try for the Sharks and on replay it looked like Steyn fumbled the ball forwards and there should have been a scrum fed by the Blues.  However, the initial comments of the commentator was way off the mark.


*   Jordaan got the ball and passed it.  After the ball was gone the commentator said it was a hard tackle - the coo=commentator came in and said there is a lot of arm-waving going on and Bismarck and Steyn spoke to the referee.   The play is reshown and it is clear there was a shoulder charge by Nonu.   So the co-commentator asked the commentator - what do you think about the issue now- and a dead silence on the part of the commentator ensued. 


What anybody needs from a commentator is unbiased and knowledgeable comments - not seriously biased stuff.  The way the commentator handled that game showed anything but knowledge of the game laws.   Whomsoever the commentator was - he was seriously defective and very poor.   


   


PE
poi-ePro1,044 posts
27 May 2014, 12:41
#2
27 May 2014, 12:41#2
 Andrew Mehrtens, and he's forgotten more about the game than a clueless pleb like you will ever know.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 May 2014, 12:54
#3
27 May 2014, 12:54#3
 Bad commentary none-the-less.   He should l;earn to be objective.  
PE
poi-ePro1,044 posts
27 May 2014, 13:36
#4
27 May 2014, 13:36#4
 Just because he had an opinion different to yours doesn't mean he wasn't objective, a ruck had formed, Frans Steyn played the ball from the wrong side of the ruck, ergo he was Andrew Mehrtens was of the opinion he was offside, hardly cause for your attempted character assassination.
3K
3ku1Pro2,580 posts
27 May 2014, 13:45
#5
27 May 2014, 13:45#5
 Yeah mehrtos was on fire in that game lol. He was right tho the try that went to Reinach shld hv bn disallowed, Steyn was offside from the wrong side of the ruck. For all the SA talk they dont get the rub of the green, not always the case.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 May 2014, 14:03
#6
27 May 2014, 14:03#6
3ku1
I think you are wrong here.  A tackler can get up and try and recover the ball and is not off-side in such a case - provided he stays on his feet all the time he is involved in the recovery.   Where I agree with you was something that the ref did not see and that was a possible knock-on by Steyn in the process.   I do think that Merthens initial interpretation was wrong in this case and only on replay he referred to the knock-on issue.
That being said a commentator should not be "on fire" as you said.   He should go and take lessons from Marshall on commenting on games.  The latter rarely makes any mistakes in commenting and I did mention 3 instances and not only the one leading to the Reinach try.   In both the other two cases he was talking tripe or being dead quiet when specifically asked by his co-commentator on the Nonu late shoulder charge issue.
Those were not the only cases where he went awry - it was just three examples I quoted, there were more cases.           
BO
BoklogicPro1,978 posts
27 May 2014, 14:10
#7
27 May 2014, 14:10#7
 Yeah Mike, that silence after the Jordaan tackle was gold..
3ku1..Lets take Reinach's try away..Whilst we at it and talking about rub of greens' lets remove T evita Li's try too as that was a blatant TMO howler/cheating...Score is still 22 - 16 to Sharks...Whats the problem son??? The right team won the game! The better team!
PE
poi-ePro1,044 posts
27 May 2014, 14:42
#8
27 May 2014, 14:42#8
 Clearly the way the forward pass rule is applied is lost on some posters, backwards out of the hands anyone?
3K
3ku1Pro2,580 posts
27 May 2014, 14:45
#9
27 May 2014, 14:45#9
 Yeah fair enough i dnt think i ever said Blues should of or deserved to win, i guess everyone is just asking for consistency. As for Li Cheating lol please, Tmo made a judgement call thats it.
BO
BoklogicPro1,978 posts
27 May 2014, 14:58
#10
27 May 2014, 14:58#10
 Never said Li was cheating...TMO was!
Poi-e, not even you believe that was backwards out the hand..Ha ha it was a 5m flat, bullet pass..It had no time to drift forward. Maybe a looping 15m pass at full speed can..Not a bullet pass that travels 5m..Take a rugby ball and test that theory.. It has no time to drift...Backwards out of the hands arse!!
You are kiwi, you will say it was a try. I am SA, I will say it wasn't but I am prepared for you to consult with Tony Johnson..He is one of your own and he will set you straight ;-)
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 May 2014, 15:02
#11
27 May 2014, 15:02#11
3ku1
I think the issue of forward passing is a major problem.  I know the rule was made becasue it could happen that a player makes a correct pass - backward out of hand - and the ball ends up going forward because of instances such as windy conditions. 
In the case the Li try - you would notice that there was a slight moment of silence before the TV monitor said the pass was not forward and the try was awarded.   It was that slight hesitation  that makes me think he changed his mind at the last moment about the issue and from what one could see when taking into account the 5 meter line - the ball did go forward.
However, i would agree with you on one topic - there should be consistency.      
  


CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
27 May 2014, 18:48
#12
27 May 2014, 18:48#12
 For once there is something that I agree with Mike. The tackler cannot be off-side at the tackle situation provided that he has released the tackled player and the ball before playing the ball again:

15.4 The tackler

(a)When a player tackles an opponent and they both go to ground, the tackler must immediately release the tackled player.

Sanction: Penalty kick

(b)The tackler must immediately get up or move away from the tackled player and from the ball at once.

Sanction: Penalty kick

(c)The tackler must get up before playing the ball and then may play the ball from any direction.

Sanction: Penalty kick12





As far as the forward pass goes it is not true that ".....the rule was made becasue it could happen that a player makes a correct pass - backward out of hand - and the ball ends up going forward because of instances such as windy conditions. "

This law is one of the oldest laws of the game  and has remained virtually unchanged for more than a 100 years. This is the law in the latest law book (note that in the modern day law book the definitions for the knock on and the throw forward - or forward pass - have been separated):
LAW 12
Definition: Knock-on
A knock-on occurs when a player loses possession of the ball and it goes forward, or when a player hits the ball forward with the hand or arm, or when the ball hits the hand or arm and goes forward, and the ball touches the ground or another player before the original player can catch it.

‘Forward’ means towards the opposing team’s dead ball line.

Definition: Throw forwardA throw forward occurs when a player throws or passes the ball forward. ‘Forward’ means towards the opposing team’s dead ball line.

This is the law is  it was in 1871. (The handwritten laws can be found HERE.)
27. Knocking on i.e. deliberately hitting the ball  with the hand (this is the knock on that is referred to  in law 12 of the modern day laws) and  Throwing Forward i.e. throwing the ball in  the direction of the opponents goal line is unlawful.

There is no doubt that the law has never been changed in more than a 100 years.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 May 2014, 19:22
#13
27 May 2014, 19:22#13
 The law has not changed - the interpretation has.   The way the interpretation is at present is that the direction is determined looking at the hands of the passer to see whether the ball actually meant to go back and not forward.   In the past any pass seemingly going forward was adjudicated to be forward and was easy to see and be dealt with. 
I think the present interpretation raised its head first in 2008 and has been at times a bone of contention.  I think it would be much easier to adjudicate with much less controversy if the pre - 2009 interpretation is applied.  The present interpretation is left in the hands of the TV monitor and those individuals have come up with pretty weird decisions.      
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
27 May 2014, 20:35
#14
27 May 2014, 20:35#14
 The "new interpretation" has a lot to do with technology. It started when spectators tried questioned the decisions by referees. As I said there was no change in interpretation. It was the way that the judging of the passes were explained that raised the impression that there was a change in interpretation. All these "changes in interpretation" of the laws can be found under "law clarifications" and you can go and have a look. There has never been a clarification about this law.

If it was true that: "In the past any pass seemingly going forward was adjudicated to be forward and was easy to see and be dealt with." then there are numerous examples on You Tube of brilliant tries going back way before 2009, that would not have been awarded. It does, therefore, just not make sense that there has been a change in interpretation.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 May 2014, 21:04
#15
27 May 2014, 21:04#15
 Ceradyne
The story about adjudicating of looking at the hands to see whether the ball was gong backwards or forwards were clarified in 2009 only and that is a fact.  But that has everything to do with the discussion above.  
MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
27 May 2014, 21:08
#16
27 May 2014, 21:08#16
the "new interpretation" is a farce, higginbotham  passes the ball when hes on the 10 meter line, ball is caught just before the 22, but was deemed not to go forward???
complete and utter BS.

many trys though have been scored though by teams cos of this new interpretation, and its only a matter of time before this rule is exploited in a ruthless way.

BTW if u want to see some ridiculous commentating, just listen to justin marshall. there hasnt been a single game where he hasnt at least said 10 things totally wrong, but 2014 is seeing some improvemnts, cos now hes at least admitting he got it wrong as opposed to that uncomfortable silence he has done many times in the past.
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
27 May 2014, 21:24
#17
27 May 2014, 21:24#17
 @Mike. Try again. There was no such clarification in 2009. These are the 2009 clarifications:
Clarification 1/2009 : Quick thrown in.
Clarification 2/2009 : Law 22 – In goal.
Clarification 2/2009: A revision of the original clarification
Clarification 3/2009: Timekeeping and scrums
Clarification 4/2009: Law 15.6 (b) Tackle, Law 16.1 (b) Ruck, Law 16.4 (b) Handling the ball in the ruck
Clarification 5/2009: Law 3.12.Replacement of front row players.
Clarification 6/2009: Number of players.
Clarification 7/2009: Joining a ruck.
Clarification 8/2009: Obstruction after a line-out
Clarification 9/2009: Line-out

@Sasuke. I have had numerous arguments about this same thing on another forum  as well. The law does not say a thing about the reaction of the ball after it has been thrown. It has always, for more than a 100 years, talked about the throwing action by the player. Go read it again. "A throw forward occurs when a player throws or passes the ball forward". Nowhere does it say anything about the pass/flight of the ball. It addresses the throwing or the passing of the ball, i.e. the action of the player and not the reaction of the ball.
PE
poi-ePro1,044 posts
27 May 2014, 21:44
#18
27 May 2014, 21:44#18
 The forward pass law hasn't changed, the manner with which referees have been told to apply the law has....whoops, this point has already been made, nothing to see here.
— END OF THREAD —

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