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FORUM / RUGBY /  Justin Marshall: Favorites got sucked in and spat out big time

Justin Marshall: Favorites got sucked in and spat out big time

Started by 3ku110 REPLIES336 VIEWS· 19 May 2014, 06:24
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3K
3ku1Pro2,580 posts
19 May 2014, 06:24
#1
19 May 2014, 06:24#1


Hurricanes and Crusaders got dragged into arm-wrestles with serious repercussions.


Just two matches involving New Zealand teams during the weekend and on both occasions the favourites lost. Not only that, they will be filthy with themselves for the way they lost.

The in-form Hurricanes and Crusaders got dragged into arm-wrestles that they didn't want, or need to be involved in.

They got sucker-punched, big time.

The Crusaders loss, in particular, has had a dramatic effect on the Super rugby landscape. It's their third loss at home this season, which is basically unheard of. They've virtually ensured the Sharks passage to the playoffs and made their own job that much harder.

They now have to travel to Dunedin to play a Highlanders team with their tails up after luring a docile Hurricanes side into their trap on Friday night.

The Sharks didn't play a lot of rugby on Saturday, particularly when they went down to 14 men and, at one stage, 13, but they were aided and abetted by a Crusaders team that got sucked into playing a kicking and territory game.

Where was the spark and imagination, the spontaneity they showed against the Reds the week before? They didn't fire a shot.


I know some are criticising their decision to keep taking shots for goal when they had the man advantage, but I think they were justified. They had to get themselves ahead, which they did. For me, the big worry was what they did after taking the lead, and that was pretty much nothing.


If anything, the Hurricanes were worse. I've been so impressed with their intent recently, but on Friday they went back to their old, insular selves.

With the injury problems they've had, the Highlanders coaches clearly decided to cut their cloth accordingly and, like the Sharks, they didn't do a hell of a lot. Instead they dragged the Hurricanes into a scrap.

The Hurricanes couldn't see the mountains for the fog, so I guess you have to chalk that up as a victory for the southerners coaching staff.


I'll now be interested to see the approach the Sharks take against the Blues. I'm pretty sure they would have been targeting this as a game they could have won on tour, rather than against the Crusaders in Christchurch, where South African teams just don't win.

Will they break the shackles a bit and play with some freedom? I hope so.


All Black squad

A few words about the All Blacks, who have gathered in Christchurch ahead of the June test series against England.

I like the look of Steve Hansen's team, its a well-balanced squad. I like the fact Colin Slade has been given another chance to prove himself as an international quality first-five.


I'm not even that bothered about the apparent lack of depth at hooker. Dane Coles' is going to make that position his own for a long time.

Malakai Fekitoa is a great selection. He could be a world-class centre and he should ensure the selectors don't feel they have to create a centre out of somebody whose natural position is elsewhere, a la Ben Smith.

For me, the two things I want to see out of the England series are a back-up option to Ma'a Nonu to emerge at second-five, and some clear thinking around the future at No8.


The latter one concerns me most. Kieran Read is obviously suffering immensely from the after-effects of a head knock and you have to worry about his future. Who's next in line?

None of Jerome Kaino, Liam Messam or Richie McCaw are particularly young, and they're all better in another jersey.


Do they see Steven Luatua as a No8, or is Luke Whitelock their man?

There must be reservations about both those names, but we need to see what the All Blacks are thinking against England.

The best New Zealand sides revolve around a brilliant No8. Some of the absolute legends of our rugby have worn that jersey. It is vital for the way Hansen wants to play to have a gifted player at the back of the scrum. It's time to see what there is behind the brilliant Read.


http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11257279


 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 May 2014, 08:52
#2
19 May 2014, 08:52#2
Just Win
Marshall has a serious point here.   What happened to the favourites this weekend?   There were in fact four outright/overwhelming favourites who lost their games, namely -
*  The Hurricanes*  The Crusaders*  The Brumbies*  The Reds
There were some problems here and those do have in a way connected to what Marshall said - but he did not really analyse what went wrong.
Crusaders
There is something seriously defective in the Crusaders team and that is they have -
*  a forward combination that is rather ineffective against stronger opposition; and *  their backline is short on "bite" with a lot of bark.  
The forward problem is not as pronounced as it should be when playing NZ teams - but it becomes a serious problem when they cannot deliver good balls to the backline to utilize.   If with 8 against 7 they are still unable to deliver the goods, it shows there is something rotten in the state of Denmark.   
In reality there are some serious problems, namely -
*  with their props and in particular Crocket - he continuously scrum inwards and that is often - but not always - penalized by the referee;
*   Bird is a very average lock and Whitelock has lost his magic of a few years ago;
*   much is made about McCaw - but he is not the loosie he was two years ago and what he produces against stronger forward packs is really bog-ordinary; and 
*   their really good forward - Read - is nowadays seemingly more injured than available to play. 
Afainst stronger Tight 5 packs the loosies will be drawn into the scrap and not function efficiently in a "running game".   In any event -  Read is the key to the running rugby in any event and his absence is a serious problem.
Insofar as their backline is concerned -
*   whomsoever the Crusaders play at scrummie is not looking good under pressure;
*   Slade is a better flyhalf than he is often credited with - but there is not enough really usable balls passed to him;
*   Crotty is a bog-ordinary center; and 
*   Nadolo can be good against poor defence - but he has serious ball handling problems.
The Dagg of 2012 is not visible anymore and his defense is problematic.    I do not think he would have made much difference on Saturday.   The Crusaders forwards could not roam around the park on Saturday and they lost the forward battle - even when they were 8 against 7.   
The Hurricanes    
I like their loosies - but with that Tight 5 they would always struggle.   A magical backline - but they can only function if they get good ball and they got revious little of that on Saturday.  8 penalties given away by their tight 5 forwards are just too many - and Parker thrived on those.  
The Brumbies
The Brumbies had the upper hand up front - but their backline was rather sterile.  They came up against two ball sense players - Le Rouz and Goosen - and theyy came short.  They must still wonder why they lost - and frankly so do I.
The Reds 
Despite their big-names squad they were pathetic this year.  So I was not surprised at all about that loss.


  


3K
3ku1Pro2,580 posts
19 May 2014, 09:33
#3
19 May 2014, 09:33#3
 Hi 3ku1 here . I agree with most but not S Whitelock, hes bn in the form of his life this year. Bit quiet in the weekends game butgenerally exceptional. I think the Canes tight five has really improoved, but really faltered in the weekend, loosies are some of the best in the comp tho, Levave hd a strong game altho vito was outplayed by Manu. I dont think Bird is a average lock, he made some pretty gd carries in the weekend. Canes just got caught into a battle, a very pragmatic gameplan employed by Landers, canes just lacked the creativity they hv shown in previous weeks, to adapt. And like Marshall said went bk to their old, insular selfs. I think you also need to give the win to Joseph over Hammatt for coaching, Josephs strategy much more efficient, Canes conceded 8 Penalties way too many, and Parker punished them. Their set pieces were really poor too, winning only around 60% of their Lineouts and 50% of their scrums. Their should be alot of work done their, as while stats say Canes wan more rucks then Landers, if they are just going to lose possession, or concede turnovers its pointless. They need to go back to basics, be a bit smarter and delieberate, gain parity at the breakdown, play a more territorial game. Saders pretty much need to do the same, Canes beat Cheifs they jump to 3rd and 2nd at best on Overall Standings,and 2nd on Conference. But of course need to rely on other results, unforrunatley their last remaining games are againgst kiwi oppossistion, which just shows how tough the NZ Conference is. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 May 2014, 13:22
#4
19 May 2014, 13:22#4
 3ku1
My problem is that every time I put Whitelock in my fantasy games he comes short.    
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
19 May 2014, 13:42
#5
19 May 2014, 13:42#5
 Ou Maaaikie what do you think of warren Whitely. He has excellent skills pace and lineout ability. To me he looks as good as Read any day.
Kbbs please keep this sensible.
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
19 May 2014, 13:53
#6
19 May 2014, 13:53#6
 Beeno: recently Whitley was asked if he thought he would get into the Boks & he said no because he was considered too small.

As to your comments on Read.... well... no comment is necessary
3K
3ku1Pro2,580 posts
19 May 2014, 14:10
#7
19 May 2014, 14:10#7
 Lol Beeno seriousley SA players well NEVER be at the quality lvl of NZ players, your deleuded. Nz are born with a ball in their hand, our skill lvl is alot more proficient. As for your whitely comment, your comparing a lightweight to arguably the worlds greatest player, a player who wan IRB player of the year laat year, you really are far gone, i doubt Whitely well even mk the boks wider training squad, hes nt big enough 
HA
hakwaPro4,146 posts
19 May 2014, 14:14
#8
19 May 2014, 14:14#8
 I have serious doubts about Slade after that rubbish game against the Sharks . Cruden and Beauden would have set that game alight. I would leave him out of the Team to play the English.
BO
BoklogicPro1,978 posts
19 May 2014, 14:25
#9
19 May 2014, 14:25#9
Ha ha 3ku1. I think u might wana retract that statement! Your boys born with ball in hand did just lose to 13 men.  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 May 2014, 14:40
#10
19 May 2014, 14:40#10
hakwa
Barrett might have - but Cruden this year was not a house on fire.  I would rate him on par with Slade.   Cruden lost his zip this year - but maybe it was because he has to play behind such a poor forward pack that is constantly under pressure.
Beeno
I do not always think about players in terms of weight and for a loosie more relating to mobility and ball skills.   Whiteley more than makes up for the lack of mobility of our prsent loosies.   
I think the only player that may keep Whiteley out of the Springbok side is Duane Vermeulen.  I do not think he would let the Springboks down if he is selected.   
I think that Alberts is for the birds.   His performance on Saturday was as have become routine in his case - way below par.   He is not a good enough ball player to be in any team - too clumsy for that role and his ball sense is zero.   I believe Burger may be an option - but he has been injured too frequently for my liking.   The only two blindsiders available are Du Plessis and Labuschagne.   The latter has also been out for 3 games now and was playing with an injury if two other games - so his performance was not really tested this year.
Insofar as the opensiders are concerned I think that Meyer may still refuse to play Brussow and he will definitely not consider Fourie - the reason being the number of penalties they give away.   He is likely to stick with Louw - but will probably have a look at Mtembu and Carr as well.        
         
3K
3ku1Pro2,580 posts
19 May 2014, 16:49
#11
19 May 2014, 16:49#11
 Yeh but the mistro Read wasent playing, hes techniquley worth two players haha.
— END OF THREAD —

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