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Kirwan: Door always open for Anscombe

Started by Monkey D Luffy12 REPLIES226 VIEWS· 05 Nov 2013, 19:58
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MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
05 Nov 2013, 19:58
#1
05 Nov 2013, 19:58#1

Kirwan: Door always open for Anscombe


Blues coach Sir John Kirwan admits dumping Gareth Anscombe may have been short-sighted and is interested in bringing him back to the franchise.


Kirwan surprised many shortly after his appointment last July when he delisted the 22-year-old first-five, who went on to win a Super Rugby title playing at fullback for the Chiefs.

Chris Noakes and Baden Kerr were signed as replacements, leaving the Auckland playmaker out in the cold after his first Super Rugby tilt, during which he amassed 99 points in 10 games. The Blues finished at the foot of the table in 2012 but Anscombe showed immense potential, most noticeably when he scored all of the Blues' points in their 29-23 win over the Bulls in Pretoria.

Criticised for what are believed to be his defensive frailties, Anscombe has subsequently made positive strides at Waikato Stadium where he is the first choice goal-kicker and helps All Blacks maestro Aaron Cruden launch the Chiefs' two-pronged attack.

Meanwhile, Kirwan is still searching for a long-term option in the Blues No.10 jersey and hopes rugby league recruit Benji Marshall will eventually make the transition.

However, it's hard not to think a solution could have been reached sooner had the plug not been pulled on one of the region's most promising homegrown talents.

"It's been interesting watching Gareth and I'm happy to say that I might have got some things wrong. The door is always open," Kirwan told Sportal.

"He's just re-signed with the Chiefs for one more year so I'm really happy to look at [bringing him back in 2015] for sure."

Kirwan said he planned to re-assess Anscombe's abilities while he was playing for Auckland in the ITM Cup. However, offseason surgery on both his shoulders meant he did not feature once for Wayne
Pivac's side.

While thriving under the culture created by coach Dave Rennie at the Chiefs, a move back to the Blues would provide Anscombe with a chance to play in his preferred position on a permanent basis.
Sportal understands, however, that the chances he will play under Kirwan are slim.

A source close to the Auckland-born Anscombe has revealed details of a discussion between the pair that has supposedly damaged their relationship.

"Wayne Pivac pulled Gareth aside at training an d told him he was about to receive some bad news, but I don't think was prepared for the things JK [Kirwan] said to him," said the source, who wished to remain anonymous.

"JK basically said to Gareth 'you lack courage and you've got no clue about how to run a football team'. He even told Gareth to go and have a look at Chris Noakes' defensive statistics to justify why he had been dropped.

"Gareth came out of that meeting extremely upset and hurt by the things that were said to him. He didn't deserve that."

When contacted by Sportal, Anscombe was uncomfortable speaking about the matter, but said: "They wouldn't deal with a player like that here [at the Chiefs]. That's for sure."

Kirwan dismissed claims of a personal fallout, insisting Anscombe's lack of experience forced him to look elsewhere for a 'mature' alternative.

"I never actually compared him to anyone else," Kirwan said. "What I did say to him in that meeting was that he needs to fix up his game defensively and that's probably the biggest part of his game that he needs to improve.

"I didn't question his courage. I said to him 'why aren't you doing those things technically?'. But those meetings are private between the player and I, and I say a lot of things to those guys.
Sometimes the things that I say are things that people don't want to hear and sometimes they are.

"I've got no issues with Gareth but I can only do one thing - tell people the truth the way I see it.

"Did I make a mistake axing Gareth? Possibly. He had a good season at fullback and I'm really looking forward to seeing him playing 10 for the Chiefs."

Kirwan also poured water on rumours that Ma'a Nonu had influenced Anscombe's axing before he reneged on a handshake agreement to sign for the Highlanders instead.

The 87-Test veteran, who was granted permission by the NZRU to find a temporary home overseas, has since recommitted to the Blues but is no longer in a position to make such demands.

"I take advice from a lot of people but then it's my decision in the end. I was pretty clear," Kirwan said.

Kirwan first met Anscombe in 2011 when the latter helped the New Zealand Under 20 side win its fourth consecutive world championship in Italy. Back then he was full of praise for the North Harbour, Blues and New Zealand schools representative but believed stronger leadership qualities were needed to make the step up to Super Rugby.

Kirwan said the idea behind dropping Anscombe was 'to see how he would respond to pressure' and hoped he would remain in the side's wider training group. His methods were lost on Anscombe, who instead felt unfairly treated and went about proving his worth in a rival team.

"Sometimes the truth hurts and you can't package it. So I understand he's a young man and that would hurt. And I did it to other people as well, and it's a tough part of our job," Kirwan added.
"I was pretty tough on him but this is a tough industry.

"He had been signed to us on a deal that was a mature deal. So it was about saying to him 'I need you to improve here, I want you to stay a part of the wider training group but if you want to go I understand'.

"If the player hasn't received the message that I intended him to get, like if he's really upset and offended by it, then he didn't hear the messages that I wanted to give him.

"It's not personal. I'm really happy that Gareth has been successful and if he wants to come back I'm happy to have him.

"But none of his people have spoken to me."

While Anscombe's return would seem like the logical option for both parties, a significant amount of water needs to go under the bridge before that happens.
MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
05 Nov 2013, 20:04
#2
05 Nov 2013, 20:04#2
some interesting comments -

"JK basically said to Gareth 'you lack courage and you've got no clue about how to run a football team'. He even told Gareth to go and have a look at Chris Noakes' defensive statistics to justify why he had been dropped.

"I've got no issues with Gareth but I can only do one thing - tell people the truth the way I see it.
"Did I make a mistake axing Gareth? Possibly. He had a good season at fullback and I'm really looking forward to seeing him playing 10 for the Chiefs."

"Kirwan said the idea behind dropping Anscombe was 'to see how he would respond to pressure' and hoped he would remain in the side's wider training group. His methods were lost on Anscombe, who instead felt unfairly treated and went about proving his worth in a rival team"

"He had been signed to us on a deal that was a mature deal. So it was about saying to him 'I need you to improve here, I want you to stay a part of the wider training group but if you want to go I understand'.

"If the player hasn't received the message that I intended him to get, like if he's really upset and offended by it, then he didn't hear the messages that I wanted to give him."

MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
05 Nov 2013, 20:10
#3
05 Nov 2013, 20:10#3
no offence kirwan, but need to stop talking out ur arse.

i followed the blues and all NZ teams for that matter with a microscope and i can recall a comment made by kirwan after anscombe signed with the chiefs that he wishe him well, but it was no loss.

its BS to say that he wanted to see how anscombe would respond fater being dropped from the blues.

clearly after rennie took anscombe the frog and turned him into a spXV prince kirwan is doing some backtracking to try and get one of the chiefs 2013 finds of the year back into his team.

IMO anscombe needs to stick with the chiefs and rennie, the team and coach who believed in him from the get go.

the mental thing is there was nothing wrong with kirwan dropping anscombe, he was kak all year in 2012 under lam who was a horrible coach.
i dont think kirwan is a horrible coach, but hes done a lot of negative things which IMO outweigh the positives at the moment.

great players dont always make great coaches, look at blackadder and jamie jospeh.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
05 Nov 2013, 21:39
#4
05 Nov 2013, 21:39#4

Sasue

 

Ancombe really produced the goods for the Chiefs and Kirwan's favourites were nowhere as good as he was.

 

You do not treat a player the way he treated Anscombe and now he apparently wants him back  Kirwan deserve to be given the finger-up and Anscombe should tell him to F-off. Sorry about the bad language - but take it from an A nscombe admirer.

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
05 Nov 2013, 22:44
#5
05 Nov 2013, 22:44#5
Hmmm . . . I reckon if I was the Blues CEO and I was offered the services of John Kirwan as a coach or Gareth Anscombe as a player, I'd go with Kirwan. 
Kirwan did a decent job as Italian coach and he had a promising first season for the Blues. I have a feeling his best coaching years are still ahead of him. Anscombe never looked much chop at flyhalf and there's no way he was better than Charles Piutau as a fullback in this year's S15. Don't think the Blues missed out on much . . . but they do need a quality 2nd 5. Chris Noakes was average at best.  
BO
BoklogicPro1,978 posts
06 Nov 2013, 01:24
#6
06 Nov 2013, 01:24#6

 You got put things into perspective. Anscombe played 15 for a championship side that was high on confidence from finishing top of class in 2012. Not 10 for a side that lacked confidence and finished with the dregs the year prior.

JK was completely justified for his reasons for not wanting him.

Also, what are the Chiefs going to do with Robbie Robinson? He is better than Anscombe and obviously Cruden will play 10 if he is fit.

 

Anscombe might find that he has to go back to the Blues if he wants some extended game time.

HA
hakwaPro4,146 posts
06 Nov 2013, 04:37
#7
06 Nov 2013, 04:37#7
 Sorry to say this but Sir JK is a very bad coach. Great player and a legend as a player but lousy coach. He is probably worse than Pat Lam. Some of his selections and decisions this year were just plain stupid. Case in point, Anscombe. I totally understand where you are coming from Mike.
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
06 Nov 2013, 10:00
#8
06 Nov 2013, 10:00#8
 
Seems to me the problem at the Blues is Sir John Kirwan. 

An arrogant prick that has no clue how to work with the talent around him.

I expected a lot from the Blues this season and can now understand why they had such an inconsistent season.

Anscombe should stay where he is.
BR
BrycyPro4,671 posts
06 Nov 2013, 11:23
#9
06 Nov 2013, 11:23#9

Jk has admitted on reflection he made a blue dumping Anscombe - but that horse has bolted now...

 

...the real test of his coaching will be how the Blues go with a new and improved backline next year...

 

...the combination of Wepu, Benji Marshall and Nonu, Piutau, Saili and Halai looks v strong on paper...pity Ranger got away as that would've been the icing on the cake but JK 's Blues have the potential to upset a few applecarts next year...

 

..it's a team stacked with talented individuals but those city slickers will never be able to replicate the team culture of their country cousins down the other end of the Gt South Rd...which is why Anscombe feels right at home at the Chiefs...

 

BR
BrycyPro4,671 posts
06 Nov 2013, 11:23
#10
06 Nov 2013, 11:23#10

... and looking forward to the battle of the Bombay hills where arguably two of the best backlines in Super XV rugby will go head to head..

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
06 Nov 2013, 12:47
#11
06 Nov 2013, 12:47#11

Brycy

 

The Blues backline seems in order - not over-powering, but OK - the top player is only Piutau .   It is their forwards that needs serious help - with only Braid, Luatua and Charles as real quality players.   Weak in that Department and consequently unlikely to make any impression.

BR
BrycyPro4,671 posts
06 Nov 2013, 13:21
#12
06 Nov 2013, 13:21#12

 not so clever mike there are another 4 of 5 All Blacks in the forwards you failed to mention that bolster the pack...Faumauina for example at ellis park was solid when the ABs kicked yr yarpy butts...

... Kaino is back so you need to factor him in to your equation as well...

...all in all the blues forwards are as good if not better than any SA team i can think of... i think the Blues are gunna suprise a few people but i always expected you to be the skeptic..

 

CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
06 Nov 2013, 13:38
#13
06 Nov 2013, 13:38#13
 
Brycy ... I expected them to be a finalist this year. Especially with the way they started. In fact I lost 100 bucks on them, so they owe me. 

I have no doubt they're capable of taking their challenge to the next level. Especially with Kaino back in the mix.

Consistency week in week out is what's needed. They blew hot and cold all season long and fell short of what I thought was their potential.


— END OF THREAD —

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