Kitshoff hasn't completed his apprenticeship

Feted at the RWC Kitshoff was drilled by WP Nel in scrum after scrum today. The Loosehead should be applying the pressure.....not the tighthead. WP Nel is now after three or so years looking like Bok material. He worked Greyling last week and Kitshoff today.

Kolisi also showed why he isn't there yet. Two silly penalties at the end of the game could have cost his side a draw. And that hospital pass to de Villiers....eina. All these youngsters need time. Even Etzebeth. Only Marcel Coetzee is showing the mental maturity needed.

Joe  at the back made a series of dumb mistakes. Aplon, Habana and de Jongh made great efforts. Aplon showed his nous by gliding into one dangerous Cheetahs overlap and preventing the pass. Grant was a rock. Bekker did well. I still can see what the fuss is about Elstadt.

For the Cheetahs, Brussouw was massive. WP Nel superb.

The  game was a mess. I'm only pleased no key player was hurt.

 Again complete nonsense, the only thing that got the better of the scrums were the conditions. WP Nel did not dominate Greyling or Kitshoff. One has to put the Stormers scrum into perspective as well. They lack an enforcer lock, with Eben out and in Fourie they have an average scrummaging hooker. That Stormers pack lacked grunt, so the pressure had stuff all to do with individuals like Kitshoff and Malherbe and everything do to with the rain and an under par Stormers pack.

Kolisi was huge and a must for the Boks. We need forwards that are physically dominant, forwards that break tackles with ball in hand, forwards that impose themselves - Kolisi is one of them as are Beast, Bismark, Coenie, Etzebeth, Steph du Toit, Coetzee and Elstadt - these are our Bok forwards moving forward. Add Brussouw and A.Strauss plus the likes of Kitshoff

Give me a Bok pack of 1. Beast 2. Bismark 3. Coenie 4. Etzebeth 5. Steph du Toit 6. Kolisi 7. Elstadt 8. Coetzee

Of course the commentators were talking about bringing on Carstens for Kitshoff.....but, I know, that's because Kitshoff was doing so well.

Yes the wonderful Campo made that call but he made it saying they needed Cartsens experience and fresh legs to close off the game......there was never an issue with Kitshoff, he had another solid game

I am going to make one true statement here and three controversial ones.   Coetzee as coach of the Stormers is a complete idiot.     The second issue is the selection of Fourie as the hooker in the starting line up.   Ever since Coetzee used Fourie in the starting line up - the Stormers scrummaging collapsed.   I suspect he is not supporting the props in their scrumming effort.

Fourie looks beuatiful in open play - put is he only a hooker with no impact on the scrummaging?   That I believe is the key issue here.  

The third issue is the performancce of the locks.   I think Etzebeth - despite his youth is our best lock at present and his support in scrum situations helped the Sormers when he was in fact playing.   

Although I like Kolisi as a flank - he did three atrocious things today.   He gave away two penalties in the defence play (ie tackling) and throwing that pass against the leg of the receiving player is just not on.   He has a lot to learn before he can get into the Springbok squad.

Having taken care of Saffex;s statement on Kolisi - I now think that the proposed loosies - with Coetzee as an 8 is a non-starter.    Leave Coetzee to play in his natural position as a 6 - and do not move him to 8 to allow for finding a position for Kolisi - it will not be in either player's best interests.     We have a variety of other players for the no 's  7 and 8.   You - Saffex - said elsewhere that Alberts blow hot and cold at 7 - but when he played for the Springboks he always blew hot.    I would pick vermeulen as no 8 before anyone else.

Now for the finale - does anyone really know whether Coenie will get over his neck injury?   Van Biljon could not and until Oosthuizen start playing again - nobody would know.   Hope he does and I would be one of the first to support his inclusion. 

Wrong Kolisi is ready for test rugby now. He makes an impression in every game he plays, much like Coetzee does

Sffex

Kolisi is as reeady fpor tst rugby is really a joke - he would be destroyed in the test environment.   let him develop further till he is ready for higher honours.   If he has it in him - he will make the grade.

You said nothing about the rest of my statements - do you agree or disagree?   By the way - I may be wrong but is Bekker a strong scrumming lock or not? 

If Coetzee is ready for test rugby then so is Kolisi. One cant really judge the strength of a lock as a scrummager can one, not without being close to the action. I'm sure bulk is an important prerequisite for a strong scrummaging lock.

I do think Fourie is a good player, but he is a liability in the scrums.

Hopefully Coenie will be ok

Kolisi has shown dominant strength with the ball and in the tackle, not what I saw from Steph du Toit - agree he is ready for the next level, unlike du Toit

 Moz I am with Saf here, there is no way in hell you can judge the scrums off that muck with wet underfoot. what was apparent and what i will give is that taken the conditions into account as well as performances from last week I would tend to go with WP Nel as our current in form tighthead. But i no one can judge if he had the better of kitshoff or not, as everyone was slipping.

Moz you are totall ycorrect in saying that neither Kitshoff or Zkolis is ready for test rugby. In Kitshoff case the barely 20 years old loosehaed is 120 kg and will only get better.. I have pointed out on a number of occassiosn that Tthe WP scrum needed Liebenberg t ostart. Mike is correct in saying Alistair really has little clue. Roux and liebenberg should have started. H ecould hav e palyed Kolisi at 8 and Deaon Fourie at 6.

WP had the better of Kitshoff but there were mitigating circumstances - Deon Fourie at hooker and the weather. The weather was the same for both of them so perhaps only Liebenberg is a genuine mitigation.

As for Kolisi well ou snapster imagines this guy at 101 kg dominates in tackles etc (He is a monster in snapster's feverish mind!!) and is a must for the Boks. bwahahahhahahahahahaha hilarious stuff from snapster. This lightweight is far from ready and  not in the class even of Brussouw!! Please try and keep it real snapster!!!!
The Stormers need  their big guns back and on form (and that includes Etzebeth, Schalk and Vermulen) if they hope to win this. Koster would also be a welcome back.

its all about player development. in terms of his own development he had a great year already and a bright future. as long as he learns then he will become better over the years. props as per rule only get better with age so his potential to develop is rather scary seeing he is so young.

Wp drilled him yes but wp is coached by OS du randt so i dont think that is very fair contest to be honest.