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FORUM / RUGBY /  Kriel back at 15 where he belongs

Kriel back at 15 where he belongs

Started by Beeno136 REPLIES968 VIEWS· 06 Jul 2016, 22:03
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BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
06 Jul 2016, 22:03
#1
06 Jul 2016, 22:03#1
Debatable.
odacom Bulls coach Nollis Marais returned Jesse Kriel to fullback and welcomed back Springcaptain Adriaan Strauss as part of seven changes made to the team to face the Sunwolves in their Vodacom Super Rugby match on Saturday.

Kriel returns to fullback for the first time in more than a year after starting his career in Super Rugby in the 15 jersey in a move that is bound to give him more space to showcase his skills.

Strauss returns after being rested for the trip to Argentina where the Bulls lost against the Jaguares and will lead the team into battle in what is now a must win match for the home side.

The Bulls side three points behind the Sharks with two weeks left and other than winning both games will need to hope the Cheetahs cause a shock against the Durban side this weekend if they are to sneak into the playoff rounds as the third South African qualifier.

Some of the changes are enforced, with injuries to Lizo Gqoboka at loosehead and Roelof Smit on the flank, while Bandise Maku has been given family leave to attend to a family bereavement this week.

Others are to bolster the side, such as Renaldo Bothma and Jannes Kirsten’s inclusion in the starting line-up. Bothma has been itching to start a game for a while now while Kirsten – due to the injury crisis – was back-up lock last weekend and sat on the bench in Argentina.

Pierre Schoeman, whose seven caps are all on the bench, gets his first start for the Bulls while Strauss is in Maku’s place at hooker and veteran Werner Kruger returns to play his 118th and last Super Rugby game for the Bulls before taking up a contract in Wales later this year.

Piet van Zyl swops with Rudy Paige behind the scrum, while Dries Swanepoel moves into Kriel’s old 13 jersey after a good performance in Buenos Aires when he came on.

On the bench, Nqoba Mxoli will make his Vodacom Bulls and Super Rugby debut if he takes to the field.

Marais explained some of the choices and his reasoning on them.

“I’m not happy about last weekend, we wanted a result and we didn’t get it. But there are also a few injury changes. Roelof Smit injured his eye in the first minute in Argentina and had an operation on Saturday night there and he had one yesterday again. It is going much better with him now, and he should be ready in a week or two,” he said.

“Then Bandise (Maku) has been released on family responsibility after his mother-in-law passed away. Piet van Zyl and Rudy Paige have been rotated all season as well.”

While Kriel’s move back to fullback is set to be widely welcomed Marais admitted he wanted to put the Springbok into space and didn’t take the national ambitions into consideration when making the move.

“I haven’t discussed it with Allister or anyone and think SP Marais has done well there. But I think Dries (Swanepoel) played well when he came on and he has been waiting his chance as well. We want to beat the Sunwolves this weekend so we cannot play conservatively and Jesse brings that attacking mindset as well. There is a bit more space for him and he is looking forward to being back in the position where he made his debut.

“It’s been a season of a bit of momentum loss. We struggle to get front foot ball and sometimes not enough ball for the backs to attack with. He didn’t get enough space to really attack and if you look at the Burger and Dries combination, they’re quite a good combination together. If Jesse gets the ball from the back in space he will be quite dangerous and we’re looking to do that this coming weekend.

Strauss warned against the Sunwolves.

“They have shown that they play 80 minutes and we had to dig deep last time when we played them away. That said, we owe our fans at home something positive. The season did not always smile upon us, but we are still in the race and that is the focus for the weekend.”

The team (with Super caps) is: Jesse Kriel (29), Travis Ismaiel (15), Dries Swanepoel (5), Burger Odendaal (16), Jamba Ulengo (8), Francois Brummer (18), Piet van Zyl (66), Renaldo Bothma (16), Jannes Kirsten (13), Lappies Labuschagne (48), Jason Jenkins (11), Marvin Orie (8), Werner Kruger (118), Adriaan Strauss (c, 130), Pierre Schoeman (7). Replacements: Jaco Visagie (7), Nqoba Mxoli (0), Marcel van der Merwe (46), Grant Hattingh (53),Arno Botha (44), Rudy Paige (32), Tian Schoeman (20),

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
07 Jul 2016, 01:08
#2
07 Jul 2016, 01:08#2
 Reality finally sets in....Kriel is not robust enough to play test centre. He is much better with space. Why does it take so long to learn these simple, simple things that are so painfully obvious. We wasted a whole rugby year....compromised our WC trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. We have to be smarter.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
07 Jul 2016, 01:37
#3
07 Jul 2016, 01:37#3
 I see Arno Botha and Marcel Van Der Merwe have also been benched
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,265 posts
07 Jul 2016, 02:46
#4
07 Jul 2016, 02:46#4
Super Marvin One replaced Arno Schwartzer .
Arno is on the bench and to drive the injury buggy. 
Arno "Schwarzenegger" self-terminator now has a remote control to cart himself off when he gets injured- to save the medical team the effort
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,265 posts
07 Jul 2016, 02:49
#5
07 Jul 2016, 02:49#5
He is decent in space. he might have noticed how poor Leroux has been at 15. 
I would rather put Leroux on the left wing, with the boot of Combrink at 15 and JP on the right wing. Kriel could be a decent impact player. 
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
07 Jul 2016, 13:18
#6
07 Jul 2016, 13:18#6

Bullshit, Jessie Kriel belongs at 13, his move to 15 is a stop gap until the impressive Gelant returns from injury. SP Marais has been playing 15 but he has been crap....makes sense to move Jessie to 15 and have both Odendaal and Swanepoel in the starting 15 at centre......given how average SP is.


You clowns should learn the art of this game.


Maybe if you actually read the articles relating to selections it might actually save you all from speaking utter shit.


Kirsten and Bothma were on the bench last week, rotation sees them starting with Arno moving to the bench.


Its average Werner Kruger's last game for the Bulls hence his start given the occasion......glad to be of service

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
07 Jul 2016, 14:15
#7
07 Jul 2016, 14:15#7
 Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 15411 RE: Kriel back at 15 where he belongs
July 07, 2016, 13:18:59
Bull[removed], Jessie Kriel belongs at 13, his move to 15 is a stop gap until the impressive Gelant returns from injury.

Kriel played his best rugby for the Bulls at 15. It was based upon his game at 15 that he got included in the Bok squad and then he had to fill a void at 13. Unfortunately for him, he scored a brilliant try in his first test, IIRC, and "Kriel, the Saviour at 13" was born.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
07 Jul 2016, 14:33
#8
07 Jul 2016, 14:33#8
 The art of the game is repeating the JJ experiment at 13....with Kriel his physical twin. Dave perhaps you can explain why Kriel is better than JJ either defensively or on attack.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
07 Jul 2016, 15:22
#9
07 Jul 2016, 15:22#9

The difference between Kriel and JJ is that Kriel has a harder edge to him. Meyer killed JJ off with his disgraceful dropping of him for useless Jaques Fourie.


Jessie Kriel along with Fekitoa are by far the best young prospects at 13 in the game......Kriel proved that last year in the RC, and was good in the WC with the most clean breaks.


I good coach invests in that safe in the knowledge that everytime a 13 gets the ball at test level he is not going to score a try.....its about investment in a partnership.....de Allende and Kriel have already proved they have it.......this time last year they were the talk of the rugby world.....only fools would conclude that all of a sudden they have lost that x factor and equally they would realise that no test centre in the game is ripping defences apart unless you are suggesting......Roberts/Davies, Farrell/Joseph, Fofana/Basteraud, Tomua/Kurendrani and Crotty/Fekitoa are doing just that?


Get real

CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
07 Jul 2016, 16:38
#10
07 Jul 2016, 16:38#10
 Kriel is about as pathetic a center as they come.
Your other first choice center (JJ) was just as big a flop. He was supposed to be the next Gerber wasn't he? ... well we're still waiting ... and waiting ... and I think we'll be waiting a lot longer. 
Perhaps they look like prospects after a few whiskeys and a little double vision ... but when one looks at them through sober eyes one realises that neither possess the necessary skill set to play there. 
Sorry, Dave ... but it was never a case of either of them possessing the so called "x factor" ... are you kidding me. LOL!!!
You throw that word around way too easily. 
De Allende is a defensive liability and so is Kriel. Why on earth would you want two sieves playing side by side. Have you lost your mind?

And no, Dave ... no-one was talking about them last year ... no-one in this country ... and most definitely no-one abroad. Haaaaaaaaaahahahahaa!!! Why would they? 
A good coach invests in a talented player. The partnership develops on its own.  


PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
07 Jul 2016, 16:54
#11
07 Jul 2016, 16:54#11
Yes, there were the talk of the rugby world. Like Gordon D'Arcy here telling us exactly why Kriel is not a 13 after the Japan fiasco.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
07 Jul 2016, 17:06
#12
07 Jul 2016, 17:06#12

Oh what utter crap, so because of one missed tackle by Kriel, stupid Gordon is defining him as not a 13.....so Pakie dear are you saying that de Allende and Kriel were not the talk of last years RC huh? 


By the way dumbass, your link says fuck all.....try again

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
07 Jul 2016, 17:51
#13
07 Jul 2016, 17:51#13
 Correct. What does Gordon D'Arcy know about centre play. He is as thick as a brick. Nobody knows more about centre play than Dawie Kabouter. He has way more experience in centre play than D'Arcy in any case. That is now the very same D'Arcy who has aprtnered one of the best outside centres of modern rugby in numerous internationals.

What is interesting from the article that Pakie has quoted is the emphasis that D'Arcy places on the difference between tackling and defending. I can recall numerous arguments about defencive play and how many times the familiar and monotonous little strings of stats were brought out to "confirm" certain viewpoints.

Fact is that it goes way beyond checking the number of missed or made tackles. It is all about "organising the defence". That, Dave, is where "useless" Jaques Fourrie was miles ahead of both JJ and Kriel.  A number of us have said many times that Kriel is no number 13 but hey, what do we know. We should just ask you for your guidance. Is that why you think that D'Arcy is stupid? Because he seems to differ from you when he says: "If you dive into that hole and don’t make a clean tackle you disappear from view and it looks like someone else has missed a tackle. Your team-mates know who is to blame. So does your coach.
So, probably, did Eddie Jones. Kriel is 21 and a genuine talent who has played a lot of rugby at fullback or wing. It showed."

That, my friend highlights one of the reasons we lost against Japan. Don't you think that Eddie Jones have not identified the same weakness in the Kriel that D'Arcy was talking about? Of course he did and he set up his plans to exploit that.

Now, before you start throwing your normal Tourette's tantrums again, read carefully what D'Arcy has said. He did not rubbish your little hero. Not in the least. He said: "..Kriel is 21 and a genuine talent....." and then he goes on to say "who has played a lot of rugby at fullback or wing. It showed."

Your issue is that when someone does not fully agree with every letter of what you say, it means that that someone is an idiot and is in fact rubbishing "your player". The same happened with, for instance, Goosen on so many occasions. When some of us criticised his flyhalf play and said that he should rather be a fullback, it was immediately brushed aside as ignorance and a sign that we were rubbishing Goosen as a player. Nowadays Goosen, who is also four years older and obviously more mature than what he was early in 2012 and who has found his feet and have his issues sorted out, he is coming back into the picture again. But.... not as a flyhalf. And... I have not seen a single post saying that his RM coach a stupid, idiot who is "rugby ignorant" for not playing him at 10. Strange, isn't it Dawie?
 
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
07 Jul 2016, 18:00
#14
07 Jul 2016, 18:00#14
 Something else that D'Arcy said at the end of that article:

"I do feel for Jesse Kriel. The ramifications of missing your read at outside centre are more punishing than anywhere else on the field. He now knows just how unforgiving life as an internatio nal centre can be."

PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
07 Jul 2016, 18:02
#15
07 Jul 2016, 18:02#15
D'Arcy's analysis is just a bit of a jab, not intended as knockout. It highlights the dangers of pushing a guy into a position he has no feel for. 
Dave, you're one of a fast dwindling group who still rates Serfontein and Kriel. And you're welcome to it. Serfontein is still the "boy wonder" in your eyes because you haven't woken up to the fact that he has not brought his age group promise into the higher levels.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
07 Jul 2016, 18:13
#16
07 Jul 2016, 18:13#16
 "Always two they are. Master and apprentice, but which was revealed,  the master or the apprentice? " Same with center parings, the one makes the other. We need to find the master and then select the best apprentice. 
PS, neither has been revealed.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
07 Jul 2016, 20:07
#17
07 Jul 2016, 20:07#17
 Well I'm pretty much on the same page as D'Arcy. None of JJ, Step, Kriel or Mapoe have really been convincing. Allende has all the physical tools, but can't put them to use. Very disappointing. Jean was very effective....Fury not as productive, but compared to our current lot a giant among centres.
Dave it's nice you think Step is Wonder Boy, who is the tooth fairy?
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
08 Jul 2016, 10:02
#18
08 Jul 2016, 10:02#18
 Who can forget the way the Bok backline shredded the wee abs in South Africa only to lose the test due to mccheat cheating?Allende and Kriel were outstanding that day ripping the wee abs apart.
As per usual the oaks forget that the Lions have the only functioning backline in Sa including the Boks. One wonders how kriel would go in the Lions backline. He is hugely talented. Allende too suffers from a malfunctioning backline. They all suffer.
We may need Jesse at 15 more though so have an open mind oaks. Nevertheless those trashing Kriel at center are all at sea on the topic . 
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
08 Jul 2016, 10:03
#19
08 Jul 2016, 10:03#19
 Excellent posts, Ceradyne!!!
A great read.

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
08 Jul 2016, 10:09
#20
08 Jul 2016, 10:09#20
 So the oaks trash a very young center of great talent for a missed tackle. D"Arcy I would think is not trashing Kreil. Bwahahhahahahahaahaha great comic value!
It's like those trashing young Lood - 2015 Sa player of they year. I think we have too many P De Villiers types here. 
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
08 Jul 2016, 10:28
#21
08 Jul 2016, 10:28#21
 No dumbass ... he isn't a center ... that's the point, you stupid man!!!
Try to keep up.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
08 Jul 2016, 13:45
#22
08 Jul 2016, 13:45#22
No halfway decent centre plays a whole S15 with nothing to show for it.....real competitors make things happen, they aren't spectators. Kriel is another myth.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
08 Jul 2016, 14:21
#23
08 Jul 2016, 14:21#23
 They all remember this:


Oh. My. Word. Springboks attacking from halfway and Handre Pollard feeds a flat pass to Jesse Kriel on an angle to scythe through three All Blacks and then power to the tryline under the black dot. Truly we have scene the emergence in the past two weeks of a special talent in Jesse Kriel, and the foundation of a brilliant midfield partnership.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
08 Jul 2016, 14:23
#24
08 Jul 2016, 14:23#24
 But conveniently forget this:
All Blacks attack through phase play from a scrum and Malakai Fekitoa steps his midfield rivals to creat a gap that Dane Coles powers through for the equalising score.
PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
08 Jul 2016, 17:09
#25
08 Jul 2016, 17:09#25
Coles' try was essentially the same as Kriel's - a well timed angle run set up by an inside man holding up the defence. 
Pollard took it to the line, held up the defence by engaging Whitelock and Nonu before passing to Kriel coming on the angle to slip between the two All Black centers. 
In the same way Fekitoa took it to the line, engaged Pollard before giving it Coles to run into a big gap next to a frozen Kriel. 
We're missing Pollard bigtime.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
08 Jul 2016, 22:05
#26
08 Jul 2016, 22:05#26
 Spot on Pakie....that try could just as easily have been scored by Willie running onto the pass, or by a wing. Or by Kriel playing fullback. It showcased a talented runner, not necessarily a centre. The fact that Coles a hooker scored an exactly similar try underlines the point.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Jul 2016, 09:10
#27
09 Jul 2016, 09:10#27
 It became clear over the last season that Kriel did not perform well enough to be an outside center and even though there were initial signs of success - the moving of him to center was another Meyer misadventure as a result of the latter's inability to make logical selections of performing players.   As per normal - the situation is that instead of investing in a functioning 13 Meyer tried his best to shy away from performing players and select a player on an emergency basis when his initial selection - Jaque Fourie - turned up at a training camp in such a bad physical condition that even Meyer could not continue with him.    It caused massive career and image damage to Kriel as a player.  We will struggle for years to come to get over the damage Meyer caused to rugby and to get away from his prejudiced reputation selections - as well as his stupid game plan.  One can only hope that Pollard - who was initially very good - did not suffer unrepairable damage at the hands of Meyer and Ludeke.          
PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
09 Jul 2016, 11:11
#28
09 Jul 2016, 11:11#28
It caused massive career and image damage to Kriel as a player.
Really? And you spoke to Jesse Kriel about this...when?
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Jul 2016, 12:47
#29
09 Jul 2016, 12:47#29
 Pakie - stop talking BS as per normal.  You have not seen the amount of criticism of Kriel on this site ever since the WC? Nobody with any sense would deny that it was just another BS story of Meyer and that the move was not really in the interest of Kriel's career as a rugby player.  Just plain for any intelligent person to realize - but unfortunately you do fall in the desperately low level of moronic intelligence.    
PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
09 Jul 2016, 14:33
#30
09 Jul 2016, 14:33#30
I didn't hear anyone complaining about Kriel's move to 13 at the time. Hell, after his try against Australia even I had hope that we may have stumbled onto something good. Fact is, you and most other people were calling for these youngsters to be blooded. Fact 2, we were thin at 13 back then, and we are still thin now. We have almost no viable test options there.
It's easy to blame Meyer in hindsight. Show me that you opposed Kriel being moved to 13 back when Meyer picked him there and I may take you seriously.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Jul 2016, 15:27
#31
09 Jul 2016, 15:27#31
All these sensitive souls who are damaged by the coach ....Kriel and JJ are given a red carpet ride to Bok 13.....but somehow they are the victims.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Jul 2016, 16:52
#32
09 Jul 2016, 16:52#32
 Mozart - getting a red carpet to play for the Sprngboks without regard to performance is what Meyer is all about.   He wss the one who failed to built up a squad for the 2015 WC - using mostly useless reputation players.    When he got caught out by the Fourie saga he was in a mess,   So he decided on Kriel - who has not played at center for more than a year - be selected at center.   Is that what you call proper evaluation of players?   It was the same deficient stuff he professed when he decided that the Lions players are not to be considered as WC squad prospects.   No back to Kriel - he was initially quite good in one or two matches at center - but in the long run it did not work out.   However, one also have to bear in mind that no backline player had any chance of performing in the backline based on Meyer's game plan.         
PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
09 Jul 2016, 16:54
#33
09 Jul 2016, 16:54#33
Being a test player (well, I guess succeeding at any sport) is not just about your physical ability, it is about mental strength as well. The will to compete. After being dropped, JJ disappeared from the scene. A serious competitor with the mental strength to succeed at that level would have fought his way back, not faded into the ether. A guy like Andre Snyman broke first one ankle and then another and every time fought his way back into the Bok side. Pollard walks in a raw rookie and spearheads a victory over the All Blacks, calm as you like. 
Then you have the likes of Gaffie du Toit way back, and now JJ...plenty of talent, not enough mettle. First bit of quicksand, they sink.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Jul 2016, 16:56
#34
09 Jul 2016, 16:56#34
 Pakie - how can anybody see the future?   In a case like Kriel you have to wait and see whether the change worked out and then be objective.  It was clear that it was not a successful move - as was so many of Meyer's other bugger-ups.  
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Jul 2016, 17:54
#35
09 Jul 2016, 17:54#35
 clevermike
 
Status: Hall Of Fame 
Posts: 23581RE: Mozart is always wrong - so what else is new
July 08, 2015, 18:12:46

 Ceradyne


I did not fault Dave when he mentioned Kriel as a center and in fact supported him in view of Kriel's excellent performance in the JWC - where he played at 13.   
I think that the era of De Villiers, Fourie, Frans Steyn, etc is past tense and our future as to centers rests with players like De Allende, Kriel and Vorster.    


  •  0 Likes
 good old Mike on Kriel a year ago....fully supporting HM's decision to bring in Kriel....now he is dumping on that decision. Pathetic hypocrite.

PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
10 Jul 2016, 00:31
#36
10 Jul 2016, 00:31#36
No surprise there. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
10 Jul 2016, 00:39
#37
10 Jul 2016, 00:39#37
 That was my initial reaction - unlike you lot I want to see performance - if that is missing - my support is gone.   The difference is that I want to see whether things work out - if they did not I change my mind.  Unlike you who are stuck with hasbeens whose bugger-ups you constantly try to hide.     I have said earlier this year I am not happy with Kriel's performance and even today at full back he was not a house on fire - matter of fact Marais did more than Kriel did when he came from the bench.     
— END OF THREAD —

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