Lack of Depth costing SA in Europe

This is an old one but just wondered how much better we would have been if we had all our top 60 players play in SA. We would be walking Europe right now.

A bit arrogant to say that. I mean sure they would be stronger, but to say they would walk it. I mean if you a look at it from the perspective that the Springboks are a team that in theory consists of the best SA has to offer, and while you could make an argument that they are the best team in the world at the moment you would hardly say they would walk over France and Ireland. Why would it be any different at club level.

I thought that we would have more money now that we joined the URC.

I don't know, no ones seems to have produce any numbers.

But money talks and we are in Europe but don't have the money to compete and hold onto our own players

Its a number of factors and money is a factor but so is coaching, the academies, creating depth and resource management. Its going take some time for the SA teams to figure out the best way of balancing URC, Champions Cup and Currie Cup.

South Africa is not a thought leader. If all of our players played in South Africa, they'd be hamstrung by very poor coaching and our player base would be drastically diminished. We might have a somewhat stronger presence at the domestic level in that we'd have a more concentrated collection of talent, but would that translate to a stronger Springbok side? I don't think so. We will always have the talent pool to play better than what we have under Erasputin, especially last year's hideous monstrosity of performance, irrespective of how great that talent pool is, but will we have the political freedom of choosing it? Will we have the intellectual capacity to choose it? The love of the likes of Erasputin, Steph, Kolisi et al shows me that we have never been further from that ideal in all of our rugby history. 

The server crash ate up a few posts that distinguished the ability to tell and enjoy tales.

SA rugby players are indeed guns for hire. That said, money is not enough to  turn people into mercenaries.

Globalism has promoted the greediest among the greedy and SA is a poster child of globalists' social engineering.

The only way SA rugby would not lose players is that they are able to offer the most money relatively to play time to each player. Any offer down by one dollar compared by any offer coming from elsewhere would be turned down.

It is not only about the money. There is a mentality, a mindset.

France, England and Australia are all on the the Pacific conveyor belt, which has vastly improved their physicality.

It is one of another tale.

It seems that their rivalry with NZ and the inferiority complex that followed up is sumed up to NZ was better only because they had PI players input.

Not dismissing what PI players may bring to the table but the same line of non arguments was made about the EC games and checking the line up showed for example the french side pointed out as being boosted by PI input has one player in the pack and another in the back line.

Certainly not enough to explain the way SA rugby teams were manhandled.

I don’t know if anyone watched Leinster v Lions yesterday, but the had a 20 year old playing at 10. On face value he looks average and at 65 min he was breathing heavy, but he still had the presence of mind to land a perfect pin point 50/22 which led to a try and them coming back to win the game. 

What I did notice that they were banking on individual players where Leinster have a playing style. Their back line has good depth on attack, players run smart angles, don’t hold on for too long and passes the ball into space. They do it really fast, quick ruck time and quick alignment. 

Our guys are way too flat or run out of ideas. 

So I think we have fantastic individuals but we still haven’t figured how to get the to play in a structure that is effective

That was literally a match winning  50/22 ….perhaps that kid is Sexton’s natural successor.

So I think we have fantastic individuals but we still haven’t figured how to get the to play in a structure that is effective

Yet the OP assumptions are based on calling back fantastic (sic) individuals would be enough to be walking Europe.

HICK!!!

The players missing interpretation is misleading.

All those players exist from an external demand, they would not be without it.

Rugby in SA is conceived as a ticket out of SA, one way to avoid facing the burden  of the past.

Trad factor in the sum of the square of the other two sides to equate the existentialism towards a mitigationable solution to the conundrum .

Saffex, nice list of players there. Ja, with so many quality and experience players. We could easily field 6 teams in the URC. 

We have some guys like, Ruan Botha and Scheckeling formers stormers locks now making decent cash in Japan and prolonging their rugby careers. They just hit 30 but in lock terms they are just the right age and can easily play for another 5 years. 

Ja, Rikus is a big loss for the Stormers. Just imagine him and Du Plesis linking up or Hartzenberg. 

So our Franchises have R65millon which is roughly £3 million a year to spend on players. The prem has a limit of £6 million. I think Whales is about £5 million per team and no idea on the Irish teams. 

In France they easily burn through £30 million a year. Not sure what the budget is in Japan but I know those guys are coining it. 

We know that Pollard is on about £600 k at Leicester. Which makes it R12 million per season in SA. He was on a million at Montpellier . Then we have Willemse at about R5 million a year at the Stormers. 

I think what the Sharks did was right offering key players 5 year contracts at almost European rates. It gives the players security and it also ensures the unions look after the players.

I also know SA rugby has this Poni scheme which the top the players salary up to help with players in SA. 

I think if our rugby teams want to compete then we to spend R100 000 on player wages. The off set is that we can get youngsters for much cheaper than in Europe but also keep the big contracts for our top 75 players. 

This brings me back to Fantasy rugby, who should we invest in at that budget. 

But R30 million will only get you 3 Pollards. But you can get 6 Willemse players for that amount. 

So it is juggling act of getting 45 professional players into R100 million. 

Estimated salary cap: (in £M)

SR (NZ,AU) :3.2

SC:4.2

WA: 5

EN: 5 (down from 6.4)

IR: 6.6

FR: 10 (going down by £ 300K by year over 4 years)

Shows it is not a SC issue.

What is going on: EN rugby is contracting both in terms of SC and numbers of clubs. Must be one of the first destinations for SA rugby players.

FR rugby is contracting and may not be that a host destination, meaning their SA is not that important as it is not driven to attract SA rugby.

Instead of wishing others to sacrifice themselves (victim executioner) mentality, SA rugby could go national by building a domestic league (maybe keeping their participation in ECs)

Ten clubs, each of them with a 6 £M salary cup. It is enough to attract all the SA rugby so called talents.

Finaancial muscle is easy enough to find: the wealthiest man in the world is a SA man and is in bitcoins (can ring fence the competition from the ANC clutches, no more rands)

The result: best league in the world, best games played, best stadium attendances, best viewership, best shows, best TV fees and dominating the ECs (multiple winners each year, SA competition from the semi finals) etc

But this would take to get out the globalistic mindset that is ingrained in SA as it built it.

Wont happen.