FIXTURESNo upcoming fixtures — check back soon.
FORUM / RUGBY /  Lambie turns back the clock

Lambie turns back the clock

Started by Mozart24 REPLIES431 VIEWS· 19 Oct 2013, 21:11
SHAREXFACEBOOKWHATSAPPTELEGRAMREDDITLINKEDIN
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
19 Oct 2013, 21:11
#1
19 Oct 2013, 21:11#1

Patrick Lambie after an abysmal S15 and bench ridden RC, finally came good today with a classy flyhalf performance. He looked much more like the player who was instrumental in our YE sweep last year. Perhaps the Sharks coaching change will breath confidence back into the young man.

 

It was ironical that Labuschagne was the man he punished for the try that turned the game. I was wrong about Labuschagne disappearing for this game....he appeared for the first 10 minutes, then disappeared.

 

I can't say the Cheetahs without Willie looked like the same team, which shows how much he contributes to freeing up the attack....for the Boks as well.

 

Vaunted players like Coenie , who was badly mauled by Herbst a few times, and Lood really were non factors. Nyakane was under the cosh. Van der Walt was probably their most effective player, along with the maligned Rhule. Goosen looked a bit rusty but healthy....he missed one sitter, but then so did Lambie when the pressure was still on.

 

I'd say the hooker battle was even, except for Bismarck's brainless yellow. What a self indulgent act.

 

For the Sharks I have to say SP looked good again, sorry Draad. And Fransie had a decent game. Reinach was steadier than van Zyl, who made lots of silly mistakes.

 

In the pack Stefanie had a fine game and took up a lot of the hard work when Deysel left.

 

It should be a very even contest next week 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 Oct 2013, 21:26
#2
19 Oct 2013, 21:26#2

Mozart

 

Is lying really your stock in trade - when you hate a player?   Labuchagne never disappeared - and you must really be blind if you do not see the number of ball carries he had where it took two or three defenders to bring him down - as well as his high tackle ratio.   You must have hated it to see the try he scored.  Incidentally you are creating another smokescreen about the Lambie try - but then you are a habitual liar about players you dislike in any event.   Lambie got the ball and ran towards a gap between Labuschagne and a prop on the outside.  He ducked away from Labuschagne who was not at  all near enough to tackle him towards the prop and the prop missed the tackle.   Not much different from the situation involving Morne Steyn and Barrett - except that Morne Steyn was nearer to Barrett and actually slapped him on the back to wish him well on  his way to score the try and Labuschagne was at least two meters further away from Lambie than Steyn was from Barrett.

 

What did Fransie do for the full half he was on?   He was absent from the game for the first 15 minutes - not active at all.  In the remainder of the time he handled the ball four times, where -

 

* he ran straight at the first defender and got tackled - nothing further to report:

 

* ran behind some players - and then got squashed by Labuschagne - nothing further to report;

 

*  and made two aimless kicks.

 

He made in total two good tackles.   It is clear he is not matchfit at all and he remains very slow in speed.  During the interview he looked as if he is still overweight.   What else did he do that makes you say "And Fransie had a decent game"?  

SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
19 Oct 2013, 21:48
#3
19 Oct 2013, 21:48#3
Fransie played as well as any player who has been out for 6 months. 
Labuschagne  had a average game for him, Bok material. Phillip Van Der Walt is also Bok material. Trevor Nyankane is shit, Johan Sadie can't defend. Prinsloo is also shit. Coenie had a bad match, probably due to the constant changing of loose/tighthead. Reinach should be on the EOYT.
Goosen fired the Cheetahs backline, I'm not too sure whether he should go on the EOYT.
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
19 Oct 2013, 21:54
#4
19 Oct 2013, 21:54#4
Mosart describes "Bismark's brain less yellow", what another one? 
Surely Beeno will investigate the ref , lol
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
19 Oct 2013, 21:58
#5
19 Oct 2013, 21:58#5
Labuschagne was the inside man and he swallowed the feint.....Joel described it two or three times. I also agree with the commentator that said Labuschagne wasn't a factor in the second half. I suppose they are both biased as well. As for Fransie he wasn't great, but certainly solid....he ran right over Ebersohn once...you missed that
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 Oct 2013, 23:10
#6
19 Oct 2013, 23:10#6

You never saw the first half and Then you comment on a player.   Mow lets get back to that try of Lambie and think back a bit to the Barrett try in the Ellis Park test.  The uinside man in the case of Barrett was Morne Steyn - who was near enough to pat Barrett on his back.   The outside man is JJ Engelbrecht - who missed the tackle.

 

In the case of the Lambie try  - the inside man was Labuschagne - the outside man a Cheeetahs prop.  Labuschagne was about two to three meters away from Lambie as a result of the duck - so he could not get near enough to tackle.

 

Now the Mozart Logic.   Steyn is completely exonerated for his defence in the Ellis Park test and Engelbrecht is totally blamed for the try.   Now Labuschagne could have made an effort to get nearer when Lambie stepped to the outside - he did not.  Now comes the Mozart Logic - Labuschagne is doomed for life because he did not make the tackle.

 

Steyn did squat during the whole first half - I may have missed him getting the better of Ebersohn - because I did not see at all - but I am right about the rest of the Steyn contribution.   He showed zilch during the game and was still what  he was before -  slow and seemingly overweight.   Must really worry you because he is definitely not ready to take over from Engelbrecht.   He has a long way to go - and he may come right in Super 15 next year - but taking into account his speed and contribution today - there are huge question marks about that one.      

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
19 Oct 2013, 23:25
#7
19 Oct 2013, 23:25#7
No Oom I never saw the first about 10 minutes of the half....I certainly saw Lambie bamboozling Lappies to turn the momentum. In any case the commentators saw things just as I did.
 
SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
19 Oct 2013, 23:36
#8
19 Oct 2013, 23:36#8
Watch every match of the Cheetahs in the Super15, you would hear all the commentators praise for Labuschagne. You've got a disliking to him and it's completely dumbfounded. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 Oct 2013, 23:36
#9
19 Oct 2013, 23:36#9

Mozart

 

Similar to Steyn having being bamboozled by Barrett?   That one according to your comment was the match loosing moment at Ellis Park.   So are you ready to accept that in view of the similarity of the cases Steyn made as bad a blunder as Labuschagne?  Still exonerating Morne completely and blaming Engelbrecht 100% for the Barrett try?   Since there are serious similarities in the case where Morne in fact was nearer to Barrett than Labuschagne was to Lambie - why is it that you exonerate Steyn and crucify Labuschagne?    

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
19 Oct 2013, 23:49
#10
19 Oct 2013, 23:49#10
I'm not crucifying him, I just agree with Joel that he was culpable. That said he really is ineffective in protecting the ball. 
Shezza I told you a few days ago, Lappies will be 25 before he plays his next serious game after today..... seems to be the case. This is not a young flank on a step up curve. This is a competent, fast provincial flank, who doesn't quite have the horse power for international rugby.....a Wikus, a Jaques Botes, a Potgieter.

Doesn't mean I dislike the guy....I just don't think he will be a test flank
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 Oct 2013, 23:56
#11
19 Oct 2013, 23:56#11

Mozart

 

And you think at 30 Alberts is a test flank?  

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 Oct 2013, 00:05
#12
20 Oct 2013, 00:05#12
Absolutely.  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Oct 2013, 00:30
#13
20 Oct 2013, 00:30#13

Mozart

 

 

Slow and useless as Alberts is with limited capacity and so only performing 10% of the functions of a loosie - admirable flat earth thinking.

 

By the way the best loosie we have in protecting balls at breakdowns is Labuschagne - do you miss it every time when he stands over a tackled player and protect him so as to allow him to place the ball without interference?   You have never seen it?   Just one thing - tell me - how do you watch games?  I really want to hear how a person is able to see one thing of  every ten things that happen on the field of play and then make value-assessment on that basis. 

SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
20 Oct 2013, 00:40
#14
20 Oct 2013, 00:40#14
Ben Smith is 27 and this season became a regular for the All Blacks.
SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
20 Oct 2013, 00:50
#15
20 Oct 2013, 00:50#15
 Labuschagne is 24.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Oct 2013, 01:04
#16
20 Oct 2013, 01:04#16

Shezza

 

I am always discussing players with Mozart.  There is one absolute that no factual information would change - if he likes or prefers a player that player can do no wrong - if he dislikes a player he would criticize him endlessly with no factual basis.

 

I tried to clarify one thing by referring to the similarities between the Barrett and Lambie tries  and asked him how he can exonerate Steyn and blame Labuschagne.   He has been writing books about how Steyn is blameless and when queried did not comment on the Steyn issue - but still went on blaming Labuschagne.   That is typical Mozart and illustrate his approach to players 100%. 

 

Facts and stats count for nothing with Mozart - if he cannot find a real reason for criticising a player he would come up with something like Labuschagne is 25 next year - he is too old - but Alberts is 30 next year and he is not.       

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,297 posts
20 Oct 2013, 01:20
#17
20 Oct 2013, 01:20#17
Labuschagne had an excellant season for the Cheetas, especially in the latter half. He probably got the most turnovers for a blind side flank in SuperXV. His tackle count was maybe the highest of any player. 
I would like to see him tried as an openside flank at Springbok level. He is probably too small for a blindside flank at bok level. 
His stats for much of the SuperXV showed him to be one of the best if not the best loose forward in SuperXV.



SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
20 Oct 2013, 01:22
#18
20 Oct 2013, 01:22#18
Doubt his opinion will change, but his constant disliking of good players and biased opinion of bad players gets tiring. 
Just like to revive the moment when Mozart said Botha is better than Lappies because he has a bigger frame, when in reality Labuschagne is bigger.
SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
20 Oct 2013, 02:18
#19
20 Oct 2013, 02:18#19
Pieter Labuchagne : Weight = 105kg                               Height = 6ft 2"
Steven Luatua       : Weight = 109kg                              Height = 6ft 4"
There's not that much difference in size with these too, Luatua has had a good season for the All Blacks and I can see Labuschagne playing better for the Boks than Luatua for the All Blacks.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 Oct 2013, 02:53
#20
20 Oct 2013, 02:53#20
Seriously guys you are free to like Lappies. Free to believe the national coaches are fools for not even considering him. Free to believe he was influential today. You don't need my permission.
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,297 posts
20 Oct 2013, 03:49
#21
20 Oct 2013, 03:49#21
I don't recall saying that the national coaches are fools.It is personal opinion of an individual player, nothing less and nothing more.Disagreeing with one selection is just that. 
It is like if you would prefer having a certain player like say Aplon over Kirchner, it does not mean that you are a fool, or Meyer is a fool.
A fool would be to disagree with the majority of the Springbok squad, or certain selections like Habana at wing, Etzebeth at lock etc- World class players.
I would like to see Meyer have a backup plan at 6 if the boks are losing at the breakdown. Having another fetcher on the bench could give more options.
Although Deon Fourie would be my first choice as a back up fetcher on the bench, with Labershagne still in the squad.
He is probably a fringe Bok player, and perhaps if he was playing at 6 he would have allready been chosen.

He was less influential today, just like towards the end of the SuperXV.
However his stats in the earlier part(70%) of SuperXV are hard disprove anything other than exceptional.

It is a case of whether can get that form back and maintain it.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 Oct 2013, 04:28
#22
20 Oct 2013, 04:28#22
Okay I was a bit intemperate. I apologize. My point is test rugby is a step up. It sets the bar higher in terms of speed, strength and decision making. Things happen faster. Some guys who are very good in the S15, like Coetzee was last year, fail at this level. This applies particularly to players who are "effort" players....who shine because they try harder. In tests suddenly everybody tries hard.
To succeed a player needs some form of competitive advantage which is highly relevant to his role, and an absence of "knock out" weaknesses.


So in that light, let's compare say Juan Smith and Lappies. Lappies is faster, even than the young Smith. But the amount of times that speed differential would count are very few. For the rest, Smith would be stronger, a better runner in traffic, a heavier takckler. His physicalty , which is a relevant competitive advantage, allows him to compete effectively with opponents a lot of the time. 
Lappies would use his pace more effectively if he could corner flag like Big Joe. But Joe could still take the ball off the back of the scrum and make hard yards....I don't see Lappies doing that in big games, making hard yards I mean.

So I see a guy who is fast and has good hands, but a player who becomes less relevant the more physical and "test like" a match becomes. My guess is thats why Meyer doesn't pick him.
BO
BoklogicPro1,978 posts
20 Oct 2013, 08:34
#23
20 Oct 2013, 08:34#23
 Lets not take away from the topic..Its a tribute to Lambie who showed today why he needs to play at 10 much more often for the Boks. Great display. I was starting to doubt the man as I had not seen him play in months and he looked average last game but today he stepped up and showed what a class act he is.
I hope he is entrusted with the Bok 10 jersey from now and up to the world cup. He is the best we have and we must treat him like it and show faith in him.
If he is not going to play, leave him in the Currie cup!
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Oct 2013, 09:21
#24
20 Oct 2013, 09:21#24

Mozart

 

What I cannot understand you is the Alberts situation - he has no speed and his hard yards is limited to about 2 meters per carry - two carries per match.  That is hardly a recommendation for hard yards.   He is also a very low ratio tackler around the fringes - nothing wider out and his tackles are bog ordinary and not "bone-crushing as you would make anyone believe.   Miss tackles on a lot of players where tries have been scored because they are two fast for him to get to - examples to tries in the Samoa test and the Reid case in Ellis Park.   is a complete no-no in breakdown ball recovery.  What makes him such a strong candidate?

 

You also make reference to big Joe and Juan Smith - both were at their peak many years ago and is no candidate for the present.  World class players at their time - but the issue is - are their any big Joes and Smiths around these days in the SA Rugby set up?   Since they are both past tense - what use is them being used as an argument in a present rugby discussion?  I know you love some past players - but that makes for nothing at present.

 

I mean I can also say Honiball was better than Morne Steyn - mind you virtually everybody was except for Braam van Straaten who was on par with what he is at present - but of what use is that argument in the discussion of the present rugby environment?           

 

 

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
21 Oct 2013, 15:33
#25
21 Oct 2013, 15:33#25

Moz as per usual your take is slanted against the young players you do not rate or like for some unknown reason.

 

For a start Lambie never had a bad S15, he had a solid one playing in a Sharks side that was poor. Lambie showed in that semi exactly what we have missed at 10 for the Boks and why it is so important to have a pivot who ignites those outside him. Labascagne was not the man who missed Lambie.

 

 

The scrums were poorly reffed, neither Coenie nor Nkanyane were dominated, much like Herbst and Chadwick weren't. There was nothing in the scrums, other than the ref failing to ping Chadwick for scrumming in as the commentators observed at one point, the ref penalising Nkanyane for slipping when Chadwick was hinging.

 

 

In fact in the second half the Cheetahs scrum started to dominate if anything. The scrums were generally poorly policed by the ref.

 

Lood had yet another good game as he always does, plenty of line out takes and carries.

 

PSDT was very good, that hit he put into Lood and was it Ebersohn........much like the one big hit Frans put it

 

 

— END OF THREAD —

More from Rugby

More news