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FORUM / RUGBY /  Lancaster makes his boldest call; Planet Rugby

Lancaster makes his boldest call; Planet Rugby

Started by Just_win42 REPLIES780 VIEWS· 28 Aug 2015, 14:03
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JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
28 Aug 2015, 14:03
#1
28 Aug 2015, 14:03#1

England's squad might divide opinion but Stuart Lancaster cannot be accused of failing to be bold with his selections.

Sam Burgess and Henry Slade have a grand total of two caps between them yet that matters little to Lancaster based on what the coaches have seen from the duo in training. "They have both trained the house down," being the overwhelming verdict.

The noises out of the England camp on Thursday suggested that Lancaster had been thinking of taking both players for some time, a decision that was only strengthened by their composed outings against France.

Rather than opting somewhat safely for Luther Burrell and Billy Twelvetrees, regulars with England over the last two years, Lancaster has gone with his gut.

That doesn't mean it was an easy move. He admitted to reporters that informing Burrell that he hadn't made it, a player he has known since the centre was 15, ranked as one of the tougher moments in his coaching career and that tears were shed.

But, the virtues of going with Burgess and Slade outweigh those moments a coach must dread, enough anyway for the normally pragmatic Lancaster to make the biggest call of his career.

Burgess has only played six games as a centre for Bath and now one for England but has swayed the coaching staff to plump for what he can offer with his power and leadership. Now he has to persuade everyone else, with Lancaster extolling the subtleties of his game as much as his obvious force.

"Sam certainly brings physicality at 116kgs (18st 3lb), and is as quick as any of our centres, except for Jonathan Joseph, and is certainly as quick as Luther. He is powerful, and understands and reads defences very well," he told the Telegraph.

“He is a very aggressive tackler but one of the main attributes that goes unnoticed more than anything else is that he runs effective lines, even when he doesn’t get the ball.

“There was a try in Wednesday’s training in which he was a big part and didn’t get the ball, when he ran the line he did, and three good defenders stopped because they thought he was getting the ball and Alex Goode ran round the back and in for a try. It is that threat at the line, and the ability to change the line, that has put him in the picture.”

Going with Burgess has in some way taken the attention off Slade, who feels like the rough diamond in England's backline after his confident debut. The 22-year-old's playmaking ability can transform England's attack much in the same way Jonathan Joseph did during the Six Nations.

The selection of Slade and Burgess shows not only that it's never too late to make a World Cup squad, but also highlights England's general low figures in terms of age and caps.

This is England's youngest-ever World Cup squad at an average age of 26.2, with their lowest number of average caps at 24.8 since 1995. They are some way off the desired total of 600 caps Lancaster had targeted by the tournament when he took up the role in 2012.

Two of his late calls, in opting for George Kruis over Dave Attwood and Kieran Brookes over Alex Corbisiero, were by slim margins. Deciding to select Ben Morgan over Nick Easter was simply down to whether the Gloucester number eight would be fit enough after shattering his ankle in January.

Danny Cipriani as discussed before the squad announcement has made huge strides, but there is no room for him at full-back or fly-half ahead of the chosen duo in each position. Watching him kick on and maximise his talent has been in many ways a success story, but he has just fallen short.

Those debates are all settled, much to Lancaster's relief given the date for his decision had been in his mind for two years. 

Now the real work begins, which sounds absurd given England have already been in camp for ten weeks. The biggest decisions are yet to be made.

by Ben Coles

JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
28 Aug 2015, 14:07
#2
28 Aug 2015, 14:07#2
 "Rather than opting somewhat safely for Luther Burrell and Billy Twelvetrees, regulars with England over the last two years, Lancaster has gone with his gut."
Teams that know they are not at the needed level will take some gambles on their selections & they on the day can get surprise wins. This adds to the strange unpredictable nature of the RWC.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Aug 2015, 14:09
#3
28 Aug 2015, 14:09#3
Camp for 10 weeks.....the Poms are a hoot.  
AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
28 Aug 2015, 15:23
#4
28 Aug 2015, 15:23#4
 "This is England's youngest-ever World Cup squad at an average age of 26.2, with their lowest number of average caps at 24.8 since 1995. They are some way off the desired total of 600 caps"

This is a big handicap for the English. Experience is vital in a WC and in this case besides its lack is located mainly in the backline. They don't have any very experienced backline player who can guide the youngs.

Their main problem, the lack of quality hookers to replace Hartley, is still unsolved and hardly will be for the WC. Tom Youngs, their first choice, is simply not up to test level, a hooker that cannot throw a lineout or scrummage correctly can never be a test hooker. Webber and George are inexperienced (13 caps but mainly from the bench and 1 from the bench). If Lancaster don't get that one of the last 2 could fill the spot with a minimum consistency his whole gameplan can collapse as it happened last weekend with Youngs playing.

If we sum some dubious calls as including Burgess who hasn't complete his adaptation to union (it took 3 years to SBW) or leaving Cipriani out while taking Goode, the only reason for still considering England as fav is the home advantage.
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
28 Aug 2015, 16:33
#5
28 Aug 2015, 16:33#5
Some points of fact: Burrell has been very poor for the entirety of the past Season, for Club ( my Club ) and Country. He had one chance to prove he should be selected ahead of Burgess, last Saturday night, and he failed dismally. He failed to make tackles, dropped balls and, I say this as no fan of Burgess and a severe critic of cross code players, Burgess did more with his one Cap than Burrell did in that match and most of the past Seasons. The players have taken to him in Camp, his advice and mentality has been quite useful and has been deemed to be most important during the coming weeks. He has trained well and formed a very good partnership with Henry Slade, another debutant. 
The pitch was dismal, so poor that, if I had been the Ref or the Coach, I would have refused to kick off. It was the worst I have ever seen a French pitch and that is saying something. They need fining, sanctioning and told that this is unacceptable. If they wish to play a professional game, they provide their visiting teams with a professional playing surface. It has gone on for too long now and someone will get hurt. The Scrums were unable to get a foothold, so that was part of the issue, and it certainly caused great problems indeed. 
As for the Line Outs.....let's have a little think, shall we ? Launchbury, playing his first game, after neck surgery, for 18 months. Bit rusty and a fragile pitch to boot. Courtney Lawes, ended the Season with head issues following the time out after ankle surgery/shoulder issues. Rusty, fragile pitch and never quite able to cope as well if Hartley isn't lobbing the ball to him, for some reason. Those two were also, of course, locking our Scrum, weren't they ? Yes ? 
Mike Brown: first game since March. Out with severe Concussion. Played very well, under the circumstances. Danny Cipriani has been with the Squad for a few weeks and came on in a couple of cameos. He was never going to make the cut, but is on the reserve list. He's being a grown up about it, why aren't the rest of you ? 
George Ford was a main reason why we struggled so badly on Saturday. He failed to exert any control whatsoever, yet again, and was quite poor when he needed to show he was up to the task. Like his woeful performance in Dublin, he again failed when it mattered most. 
England will do what they do. I wouldn't let it worry you all too much.You have your own teams to concern you !! 
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
28 Aug 2015, 17:23
#6
28 Aug 2015, 17:23#6

Burgess is utterly useless and Slade is far too small for centre. England have one quality centre in Joseph and that's where it ends.


Barritt is as boring as they come at 12


Leaving the creative Cipriani out is a joke, as is Parling or Kruis ahead of Attwood.


Leaving their best loosehead out in Corb is another huge mistake


Leaving their best openside in Armitage is another poor call. Robshaw is not an opensides backside.


Lancaster is as poor as Meyer  

BE
becsPro4,378 posts
28 Aug 2015, 17:50
#7
28 Aug 2015, 17:50#7
Slade is exceptional, Kruis has been fantastic ( Parling is helpful in dealing with the issues we will face having changed Hooker...he and Youngs can help the rest if the Forwards get up to speed ), Corbisiero is permanently injured and has been poor when he has played last Season and shut the hell up about the little mercenary quisling that is Armitage, please. He is a non issue and always was. 
Oh and love you lots, Saffex ( just to counteract the abuse I am about to endure from you !! )  
KI
KitchenerClub Pro612 posts
28 Aug 2015, 20:32
#8
28 Aug 2015, 20:32#8
I say, this Saffex bounder does sound like a bit of a rum cove, what? 
Bit rich seeing a bally boer of all people calling an Englishman 'useless'. We're not talking about your president now, chaps, we're talking about an Englishman, by Jove - and yes, even if he does happen to be an ex-League convert. 
Poor form, Saffex!
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
28 Aug 2015, 20:45
#9
28 Aug 2015, 20:45#9
 Kitchener,  I propose a name and pic change.  Hitler would be less offensive!  What was your previous nic,  I  see you are 600 + post strong.  FUCK OFF DOOS!!! 
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
28 Aug 2015, 20:47
#10
28 Aug 2015, 20:47#10
 Oh,  Saf is not a Boer,  but a soutie. No problem.  You,  however,  is a 888 S!  Google  it. 
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
28 Aug 2015, 20:48
#11
28 Aug 2015, 20:48#11
 It's the first time I've come across Kitchener, I have to say 
KI
KitchenerClub Pro612 posts
28 Aug 2015, 20:51
#12
28 Aug 2015, 20:51#12
Goodness me, steady on old boy. Why on earth would you have an issue with one of the great historical heroes?
As for my post count, I was here about 4 years ago for the last Rugger WC. It was a lot quieter back then. I remember a chap called Ekk or something like that who also took issue with my name. He didn't know much about rugger either. Do you have anything to say about rugger DBdrad or are you just another boer who can't forget how your ancestors were given a jolly good beasting by the British?
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
28 Aug 2015, 21:20
#13
28 Aug 2015, 21:20#13
 F. u. c. k off TROLLL! 
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
29 Aug 2015, 00:30
#14
29 Aug 2015, 00:30#14
Slade is exceptional bwhaaahaaaaa. ....joke of the month. Corb has not been poor....he is far far better than Marler who got owned by the French, not to mention fat Mako who is utterly useless.
Kruis is average done nothing of note. Parling is useless.
The England squad is as crap as the Bok one in fact it is worse.
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
29 Aug 2015, 01:08
#15
29 Aug 2015, 01:08#15
 How often have you seen Slade ? I won't accept " I have seen enough " as your answer, Saffex. Corbisiero has been poor. He has given away a huge amount of Penalties this past Season and we have already dealt with the pitch and lock issues the team had to deal with against France. That was a blip. 
Kruis is not average. He is very good and far better than Attwood. 
Is is " as crap " as your side or is " it worse " ? It can't be both  
AG
AgPleezDeddyClub Pro900 posts
29 Aug 2015, 01:09
#16
29 Aug 2015, 01:09#16
 Who that hasn't been included in the England squad would you have liked to have seen, Becs?
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
29 Aug 2015, 01:27
#17
29 Aug 2015, 01:27#17
 Oh dear, quite a few players really, APD ! Elliot Daly and Joe Simpson, but the latter is only just recovering from a serious knee injury and neither have really ever been included in the main Squad. I think that has been an error, but they are seen as very much " ones for the future " Then again, so was Slade. I think Maro Itoje might have made a last ditch grab for a Flanker spot ( plays lock too ) but he too is one for the future. Cipriani was unlucky not to make the cut, and I am no fan of his, but he will be ready to pop in if needs be. 

We've been quite unsettled for a number of years, really, so it was more or less a case of taking who we have integrated into the England set up. They just need to play to their potential and they are a better bunch of players than many give them credit for.
There's always a couple of bolters ( Burgess and Slade, in this instance ! ) but you can't have a team full !! 
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
29 Aug 2015, 01:35
#18
29 Aug 2015, 01:35#18
 I have seen plenty of Slade at 10 and he was ok there....there is no way in hell he will make it as a 13 it's a bloody joke. My son weighs more than he does.
Absolute bullshit that Corb has been poor....he has never been poor. You want to see poor look no further than Marler getting his arse kicked against France.
Kruis is average, Parling is useless - another physical liability. Attwood is far better than both.
You are speaking crap as usual 
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
29 Aug 2015, 01:48
#19
29 Aug 2015, 01:48#19
Size, size, size......blah de blah de blah ! Will you change the record ?! He has the skill and he is a very good player with a good skill set and is a very good prospect. He copes even better considering he has Diabetes. I am very pleased he's having a shot at things, even if you aren't !! 
Corbisiero was a Penalty machine for us last Season, when he played. That is the truth. 
Attwood is not in the Squad, Kruis and Parling are. The former is a far better player than you are giving him credit for and I know you hate Parling. 
I am not speaking " crap as usual " 
AG
AgPleezDeddyClub Pro900 posts
29 Aug 2015, 01:51
#20
29 Aug 2015, 01:51#20
 Fair enough, I haven't seen much English domestic rugby this year so I wasn't sure if there were any controversial people who didn't make the cut. 
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
29 Aug 2015, 02:04
#21
29 Aug 2015, 02:04#21
 Well, there are those who think Kyle Eastmond and Christian Wade should be there.Both are far too small for Saffex !! But they are both talented players. 
Cowan-Dickie is the Hooker to miss the cut and gained his first Cap as a Sub in the first French Test. He struggled when the Forwards lost the plot and his Line Out work was poor. But he is still a kid and a good prospect. 
Everyone you speak to will have an opinion on what is wrong with the Squad. I say bring back Will Carling  
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 Aug 2015, 02:06
#22
29 Aug 2015, 02:06#22
Why not Richard Sharpe?  
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
29 Aug 2015, 02:32
#23
29 Aug 2015, 02:32#23
 Richard Sharp ? Have them both. But I would still have Will as Captain. 
KI
KitchenerClub Pro612 posts
29 Aug 2015, 07:35
#24
29 Aug 2015, 07:35#24
Richard Hill is the chap I'd bring back from the past with Martin Johnson a close second.  
BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
29 Aug 2015, 08:10
#25
29 Aug 2015, 08:10#25
 Kitchener ?  A regular on the old Keo board ?
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
29 Aug 2015, 09:16
#26
29 Aug 2015, 09:16#26
Becs your rugby ignorance is shinning bright.
Size counts unless you can show me another 87kg centre playing test rugby.
As for Corb costing you penalties that's a lie.....did he all of a sudden develop a weakness as a scrummager
KI
KitchenerClub Pro612 posts
29 Aug 2015, 09:50
#27
29 Aug 2015, 09:50#27
Well I posted on the Keo board some years ago but I'm not sure one could call me a regular as I only posted there for a few months. There were a few chaps on the there who didn't like me very much. I posted on the Sport24 blogs for a lot longer until they rather mucked it up.
Please tell me the fellow above talking about ignorance 'shinning' bright is taking the mickey!
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
29 Aug 2015, 11:19
#28
29 Aug 2015, 11:19#28
 No, Saffex, it is doing nothing of the sort. We both know you are obsessed with size and weight. I see you are not mentioning your hated Jack Nowell here....he gets a reprieve as you pick on Henry Slade instead !! 
It is not a lie, it is a fact. He gave away myriad Scrum penalties every time he played. He has been injured for too long and is struggling. 
But you always know best, even when you don't actually watch the matches, it seems !! 
And don't you dare call me ignorant again. 
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
29 Aug 2015, 12:25
#29
29 Aug 2015, 12:25#29
 Kitchener,  just for you. 
Edit : Removed pick
KI
KitchenerClub Pro612 posts
29 Aug 2015, 12:37
#30
29 Aug 2015, 12:37#30
Really? For me? Gosh! 
I suspect you're trying to make some obscure point but if not then thanks awfully, old sport.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
29 Aug 2015, 13:21
#31
29 Aug 2015, 13:21#31
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
29 Aug 2015, 13:32
#32
29 Aug 2015, 13:32#32
 Nothing obscure. You deliberately  chose your nick and profile pic and then open with a "Boer" slur after an aledged absence of years from the board. Bloody ignorant bigot! 
KI
KitchenerClub Pro612 posts
29 Aug 2015, 13:43
#33
29 Aug 2015, 13:43#33
Good heavens, has the word 'boer' become a slur since I was last here? Awfully sorry, I didn't know. Not really that surprised though. Thanks for the heads-up, old fruit. I will be more careful in future.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
29 Aug 2015, 13:44
#34
29 Aug 2015, 13:44#34
 Link to the result of your hero's actions.
Interestingly you Poms had seperate camps for white and African people.  The true architects of Apartheid.  I'm truly sad and embarrassed  that my ancestors bought into the shamefull ideology... now go jumo into a volcano before you procreate. Or is it too late already? 
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
29 Aug 2015, 13:53
#35
29 Aug 2015, 13:53#35
"as the word 'boer' become a slur since I was last here? Awfully sorry, I didn't know. "Context,  Doos,  context. You know exactly what you did, just as I'm fully aware that I took the bait. I know well enough that this is the net and some idiots get off on flaming others,  but hell its fun to be able to call a doos what he is. Face to face would have been better,  but we can't have it all now,  can we? 
KI
KitchenerClub Pro612 posts
29 Aug 2015, 14:00
#36
29 Aug 2015, 14:00#36
People flaming others? You mean like you've been doing on this thread?
Poor form, old sport, but not entirely unexpected. I know you colonial chappies tend to lack a bit of breeding.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
29 Aug 2015, 14:50
#37
29 Aug 2015, 14:50#37
 I responded to your crap and like I said,  I'm fully aware that I descended to the gutter to converse with you. Never said I was a role model for social media behaviour.  Colonial types?  Lack of breeding? lol.  At least I'm  not from the stock of the lot that nearly fucked up the world completely. 
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
29 Aug 2015, 20:20
#38
29 Aug 2015, 20:20#38
 Agh,  well,  I hope he comes back to play tomorrow. 
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
29 Aug 2015, 23:56
#39
29 Aug 2015, 23:56#39
 Kombuis
what is a ...."I say, this Saffex bounder does sound like a bit of a rum cove, what?"
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
30 Aug 2015, 00:10
#40
30 Aug 2015, 00:10#40
 Apparently it means "excellent rogue" but who knows what this Kitchener bloke means when he uses it.
There is also the phrase "rum duke" which means a strange unaccountable person. Could Kitchener be Duke?
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