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FORUM / RUGBY /  Lash out bad but provocation there, by Andrew Mehrtens

Lash out bad but provocation there, by Andrew Mehrtens

Started by Just_win21 REPLIES326 VIEWS· 20 May 2014, 00:50
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JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
20 May 2014, 00:50
#1
20 May 2014, 00:50#1

OPINION: As as it pains me to say this, I'm glad the Sharks didn't pay the ultimate price for the early sending-off of loose forward Jean Deysel in their remarkable victory over the Crusaders at the weekend.

Deysel's boot to the head area of Jordan Taufua looked pretty bad, but it raised one of my pet hates - the guy who starts the niggle getting off scot-free.

Proximity to the head is what got the red card, but Taufua, a young talent I rate very highly, was holding on to Deysel for a long time. The way I saw it his foot was on the shoulder area and he pushed down with unfortunate results.

I know there's a safety issue here, but Taufua was the one provoking it, and Deysel, knowing off-the-ball stuff like that is not going to get picked up, made a natural reaction. Don't get me wrong - this is not directed at Taufua at all, who is a player of immense talent who has performed so well this season.

In the context I could have accepted a yellow card, but the red was harsh. Most big all-ins in rugby are caused by annoying little off-the-ball things, and normally the perpetrators escape unpunished, and the bloke who comes in with the retaliation gets nabbed.

Something's just not right about that order of justice.

I'm not supporting taking the law into your own hands, but I've always thought the harshest punishment in these things that escalate should be dished out to the guy who started it all.

On the whole I'm not a big fan of the TMO sticking his beak in, especially when he hasn't been asked to by the referee.

Yes, we've got to be vigilant on foul play, and I support coming down on that off-the-ball niggle but I'm not sure the TMO needs to be a ref. Otherwise it's a bit like the tail wagging the dog.

As much as my heart is always with the Crusaders, I was glad the Sharks didn't suffer too much. Going down to 14 men seemed to concentrate their minds and their collective will. Any rugby fan has to respect that.

Remember the 2003 English team? That was a line in the sand they drew in Wellington when they lost two players to the bin, and they never looked back.

Watching the Sharks battle through the match down a forward, with Francois Steyn called into the scrum, reminded me of my proudest moment packing down on the side of the All Blacks scrum.We had a move that put Reuben Thorne in at first receiver to get some go-forward at first phase, and I was the one chosen to lend a hand up front. It's almost like I can stand beside Colin Meads over a beer and talk about the scrum.

Even my brief experience confirmed one thing. It's a beautiful battle in there. People would be astounded if they understood the tactics and technique that goes into it.

It's the game within the game and I've always found it cool to ask front-rowers about it. It also helps them feel like you value them.

Think about it - three guys interlocking with three others in a massive battle of wills and strength, with the locks in the engine room behind. No wonder guys like Mike Cron are so passionate about it.

There were three upsets at the weekend and they all had one thing in common. The Sharks, Highlanders and Cheetahs all won because they gutsed it out and showed great team unity and spirit.

Defence is where that manifests itself most - getting up off the ground quicker, getting enthusiastic about getting back in the defensive line and making gang tackles.

On attack it's the support play off the ball and cleanouts. It's the effort areas.

It gets to a point where teams start enjoying being on defence, crowds respond and it develops a life of its own.

Some of our best moments in the Crusaders back in the day were when we spent 10 minutes on our own line repelling attack after attack. You could feel the excitement building in the crowd and finally there would be a turnover, the line cleared and the lift was enormous.

For the Crusaders that defeat will be a reality check. It also reflects the tightness of this competition, and that you only need to be just a little off your game to be knocked over.

They'll analyse why it went wrong, and will have their KPIs that will give them a pretty good indication. We always had about seven, and we'd set them high but achievable. If we hit four or five we'd normally won the game.

Last Saturday night it's hard to think my old team would have hit any.

JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
20 May 2014, 00:54
#2
20 May 2014, 00:54#2
There are a lot of fair-minded kiwi out there

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,295 posts
20 May 2014, 01:03
#3
20 May 2014, 01:03#3
This article completely loses focus. One minute Mertens is discussing off the ball incidents, next minute its a walk down memory lane " the time when he played on the scrum". He then goes on to ramble about some of his other playing experiences......" Its all about me!!"....... I remember the time when I did this, did that... Blah... Blah.. Blah.........

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
20 May 2014, 01:41
#4
20 May 2014, 01:41#4
 Well said Andrew an unexpected bit of honesty from someone in addition to Justin Marshall the sole other honest kiwi I know besides Cloudy. Cloudy is always honest although often mistaken. Very noble of you JW to post this but in truth the game was up as beeno had already spilled the beans. Everyone knows taufua was the real culprit although some boneheads did not agree.  Now lets see what the disciplinary panel does.
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
20 May 2014, 02:10
#5
20 May 2014, 02:10#5
I preferred the version of beeno in his pink slippers (even if pink is often not seen as being a manly color ), he seemed to have integrity & a certain amount of mental balance (well there was that one post). But I guess we are back to the blue-slippered Beeno, aka "it's the ref's fault".
Our mate Sasuke san is compiling evidence of all off-the-ball incidents by the SA players. It may take a while though (it's not a short list). In the spirit of cooperation please send in your lists in now.
BO
BoklogicPro1,978 posts
20 May 2014, 11:09
#6
20 May 2014, 11:09#6
One thing is for sure..Its gona be a sad day when this super rugby format changes. I think we can all agree that its the games like we saw between the Sharks and Crusaders on Saturday that we all wana see. Kiwi's vs Saffa's vs Aussies. Thats what we want. How I wish we could drop back to super12/14 where each team plays every other team once in a pool stage and top 4 contest the semi's...
We dont wana see SA vs SA every week.
AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
20 May 2014, 16:12
#7
20 May 2014, 16:12#7
 This article is pure BS from the begginning till the end.
An infringment is an infringment no matter what has happened before. This so postmodern removing or reducing the relevance of the issues is an intellectual fraud, always has been.
This is a very dangerous path to open because once opened everything is justified unless you make a completely new and extensive ruling. If stomping the face is permtted (or the punishment reduced) after a rival's holding, what else is permitted? eye gouging?
If players can react to a holding why not to a shove? what is permitted in this case? punching the face? throwing him to the ground and breaking him an arm? where do we put the limits?
Pure BS. And the one who writes the article knows it perfectly well. He's all the time justifying himself:

"I know there's a safety issue here, but...."

"In the context I could have accepted a yellow card, but... "

"I'm not supporting taking the law into your own hands, but..." 
well, then shut the f*ck up because you are precisely doing it, supporting to take the law into your hands, etc.

And the ultimate and complete joke this guy has become is shown when he writes:

" I've always thought the harshest punishment in these things that escalate should be dished out to the guy who started it all."

really? so if someone shove a rival and then this last gouge the other's eyes, the one who has shoved must receive the hardest punishment? BS!!!!!!!

An infringment is an infringment and all the arguments posed in this article cannot be seriously defended.



SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
20 May 2014, 16:20
#8
20 May 2014, 16:20#8
As I said before, Taufua did not deserve a boot to the face, 3 or 4 punches to the face would have been the perfect answer  
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
20 May 2014, 16:36
#9
20 May 2014, 16:36#9
 
Why stop there ... a small piece of his ear would surely not have been missed ... would it?
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
20 May 2014, 16:41
#10
20 May 2014, 16:41#10
If that's your way Clown.......then feel free.......about sound right for a man of your standing........Tyson a hero of yours then?  
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
20 May 2014, 16:58
#11
20 May 2014, 16:58#11
 The key to all this is the word " provocation ". He is experienced enough to know he should not have reacted in that way, certainly not to such a minor provocation....if he was being punched or stamped on himself ? Well, sometimes it is understandable to react in kind. But being held back ? Or impeded ? It was out of proportion to the illegality of the players act against him in the first instance and a really nasty reaction.
Players are getting pretty ratty these days all round. I don't think the Psych's are doing a very good job with them, are they ?  
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
20 May 2014, 17:08
#12
20 May 2014, 17:08#12
If taufau had really been hurt there would have been pictures plastered on the fron page of every kiwi newspaper as they would have milked the situation for all they were worth.
Kiwis like to start things and then hope the ref cards the retalia ting player. Mehrtens thinks this is wrong as do all folk of sound mind. Clealry ou ab ass in quite unhinged!
 the boots JW are red not pink.  You need to upgrade that computer of yours - Bwahahahhahahaha
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
20 May 2014, 17:11
#13
20 May 2014, 17:11#13
 Bok log I have to agree with you. We have the queens to thank for this debacle.Only good is that our teams dont travel as much.
The rubber will hit the roa d if we only get 3 teams in the final stages. Argies could field a very good side - maybe their test tream or thereabouts?
AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
20 May 2014, 18:37
#14
20 May 2014, 18:37#14
 @beeno,
"Kiwis like to start things and then hope the ref cards the retaliating player. Mehrtens thinks this is wrong as do all folk of sound mind"

this is pure trolling and provoking. I'm not going to waste my time answering as it deserves
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 May 2014, 18:52
#15
20 May 2014, 18:52#15
Is there anybody out there asking Basque to answer a question.....no....odd, this clown seems to think somebody is interested in his pompous point of view.  
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
20 May 2014, 21:31
#16
20 May 2014, 21:31#16
Moz: I am interested in abasquefan's point of view He knows a lot about rugby even if he is not a kiwi, lol 
He is not a native English speaker so perhaps you could elaborate on the meaning of pompous. You have been accused of this trait by many on this site
Moz' Pomposity index score: & the fair-minded kiwi said: but it is a perfect 10 he should be congratulated  
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
21 May 2014, 00:36
#17
21 May 2014, 00:36#17
Beeno: your delusional euphoria over finally seeing a SA team pull off a great victory has resulted in you condoning a player kicking another player when he is down. But don't worry no one could take such statements seriously - it's too crazy - just irrational exuberance (but no stock-market trades or money involved I trust).
On the booties you are wearing (as shown above), perhaps in the spirit of compromise we can agree they are a reddish pink? You have been watching too much ladies tennis mate.
MO
moolaaPro2,380 posts
21 May 2014, 01:57
#18
21 May 2014, 01:57#18

 Mehrtens is a clown. His understanding of the human anatomy is skewed a tad if he thinks stamping on someone's face is "in the shoulder area". He's rapidly becoming another sychophant like Justin Marshall and Tony Johnstone. SA supporters should be intelligent enough to realise that Marshall only says what you blokes want to hear 'cos he knows you're listening! Similarly with Johnstone who writes a weekly column for Supersport heavily weighted in favour of all things South African. He writes what they want to hear and then all the thick supporters comment on how marvellous he is! Dumbness in the extreme and gullibility at it's best.

@ Hasbeeno; there was TV footage of Taufua's stitches inside his bottom lip shown in NZ but I suppose that footage was lost in transit to SA.

Couldn't agree more with ABasquefan....NO possible excuse for what Deysel did despite all SA supporters' protestations. He's hopefully gone for the rest of the season the low life.

And Moz, a bit rich commenting on ABasquefan's "pompous point of view" when we've had to endure 6899 (and counting!) of yours to date.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 May 2014, 02:57
#19
21 May 2014, 02:57#19
 moolaa 
I do not think anybody is justifying what Deysel did.  That is not the point.  The point is that it is becoming clear that New Zealand players apparently are coached to bend the rules in every way they can and hope the referees do not penalize it.   When there is a reaction then cry foul.
If there was not an initial transgression of the laws there would not have been a sequal.  Be it as it may - the incident started off with an illegality on the part of a Crusaders player and the feeling is that the referees should handle such incidents more strictly and there would not be repercussions.  The ref in this case will probably get a few weeks holiday to study the rules and start blowing games correctly.           
MO
moolaaPro2,380 posts
21 May 2014, 03:58
#20
21 May 2014, 03:58#20
 Mike, SA players do not have halos! They interfere with the opposition continually as well,  although our players don't resort to thuggish retaliation like Deysel, Bakkies, Greyling, Johan Le Roux etc, etc etc! Do I need to name more??
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,295 posts
21 May 2014, 15:37
#21
21 May 2014, 15:37#21
Bakkies and Greyling was all handbag stuff. No one was actually injured.  
Unlike All Blacks Andrew Hore who put a  Welsh test player in hospital. The Welsh Coaching staff allmost filed a charge of assault against him.
Deysel was more reckless and stupid but players use plastic studs these days, not the steel studs of the old days.

MO
moolaaPro2,380 posts
22 May 2014, 21:33
#22
22 May 2014, 21:33#22
So Sharkbok, it would've been ok for a plastic sprig to blind Taufua instead of a metal one? Get your head out of your arse and stop making excuses for what Thug Deysel did!  
— END OF THREAD —

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