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FORUM / RUGBY /  Law Discussion: That conversion (Lions loss to the Landers)

Law Discussion: That conversion (Lions loss to the Landers)

Started by Just_win10 REPLIES220 VIEWS· 13 May 2014, 09:00
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JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
13 May 2014, 09:00
#1
13 May 2014, 09:00#1

When the Lions played the Highlanders in Dunedin the match ended with a one-point victory for the home side. The last act of the match was a conversion attempt.

Should it have been the last action of the match?

The Highlanders led 23-0 at half-time, but then the Lions came back strongly and just before the end wing Courtnall Skosan scored a try. The conversion would have won the game for the Lions, but the conversion by Elton Jantjies hit the upright and bounced back. The referee ended the game.

Should he have?

Before he kicks, Jantjies goes through his routine of looking at the posts, bending his knees and clasping his hands as if at prayer. Several of the Highlanders charge, one getting about 15 metres from Jantjies. The referee sends them back. Jantjies comes forward to kick, and the Highlanders charge. The kick is not successful and the referee ends the match.

The law involved here is ancient and clear.

In olden days the goal counted, not the try. The goal counted - kicking the ball over the crossbar. The try did what it suggests - gave the team a chance to try (attempt) to improve on the try (convert) by kicking the ball over.

The charge is impliciti in the laws (called rules then) as written in 1846 for the first time and is clearly allowed in the 1866 version. But a sanction against getting the charge wrong was first explicit in 1883.

In those days the kicker did not place the ball. He had a holder who lay down and, when the kicker was ready, lowered the ball to the ground.

In 1883 the Law said: 'The defending team may charge as soon as the ball touches the ground.'

In 1892 the law said that in the case of a premature charge, 'the charge may be disallowed.'

In 1899 the law said that the referee could order 'no charge'. If the kicker's kick is unsuccessful while the illegal charge is happening, the kicker should be allowed to take the kick again - and then the kick is regarded as a new kick.

There is more to it but it is clear that the law is old. It certainly is older than other complications like running around, swimming around, side entry, standing up under pressure. It is also an uncluttered situation.

In the matter of an early charge the law is clear and an infringement is clear. It is not an area of complicated law or difficult processing. It happens out in the open.

This is the Law in 2014, the one that applied to Super Rugby last weekend.

Law 9.B.3 THE OPPOSING TEAM
(a) All players of the opposing team must retire to their goal-line and must not overstep that line until the kicker begins the approach to kick or starts to kick. When the kicker does this, they may charge or jump to prevent a goal but must not be physically supported by other players in these actions.
Sanction: If the opposing team infringes but the kick is successful, the goal stands.
If the kick is unsuccessful, the kicker may take another kick and the opposing team is not allowed to charge.
When another kick is allowed, the kicker may repeat all the preparations. The kicker may change the type of kick.

Did Jantjies begin his approach to kick? No.

Did the Highlanders charge before Jantjies had begun his approach? Yes.

Was the kick successful? No.

And so the Lions should have been allowed a chance to kick again without any charge by the Highlanders.

It is not fanciful to suggest that the early charge was made in order to put the kicker off. If it is to be played out as it was in Dunedin on Saturday, it may become standard practice.

By Paul Dobson

JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
13 May 2014, 09:04
#2
13 May 2014, 09:04#2
 Hard to disagree with this conclusion.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
13 May 2014, 14:32
#3
13 May 2014, 14:32#3
 As I understand it - the referee fouled up here and he is in hot water.  Another referee that will be given an enforced holiday  to read and study the law - it seems to me.
GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
13 May 2014, 15:03
#4
13 May 2014, 15:03#4
9.b.3...MUST NOT OVERSTEP...there is a huge difference between the word MUST and MAY in law...the ref made a huge blunder...these type of errors should have a penalty (punishment or recourse in some way)...the sad thing is the side disadvantaged is the biggest loser through no fault. 
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
13 May 2014, 15:25
#5
13 May 2014, 15:25#5
 Referees will always cock up as did this one , these days I cant be arsed worrying about it as its just not worth the effort.
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
13 May 2014, 15:38
#6
13 May 2014, 15:38#6
 
It's a pity it went the way it did. The Lions deserved the win.

It would have done their confidence the world of good.

I reckon though it's actually par for the course as we received the refs favour at home at least on one occasion.





 
3K
3ku1Pro2,580 posts
13 May 2014, 15:58
#7
13 May 2014, 15:58#7
 I don't think any refs favor any teams, they are trained professionals after all. Law was not implemented, but after all Lions were down 23-0 at HT, their own fault.
MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
13 May 2014, 21:28
#8
13 May 2014, 21:28#8
gardener Fd big time, i dont think it was intentional, just incompetence on gardners part.

it was clear that the lions should have been given an other chance, and its quite baffaling to understand why, unless ur one of those mongs who thinks NZ rugby teams get preferential treatment form the IRB and the illumanati.

it was a horrible ending to a game of two halves, and i would have loved to see the outcome had it been officiated properly, regardless of the result it would have been fair, cos 1st half went the landerts, but the 2nd was lions.

i think gardner was one of the three refs who was stood down earlier this season, but cant i cant quite rememeber,,,,,
if he was, then surely he has reffed his last spXV game???
AJ
Arthur JohnPro1,748 posts
13 May 2014, 21:32
#9
13 May 2014, 21:32#9
 To late for tears......just another show of the refs blunders that we have to endure each week.
Shocking that they don't hit these guys with fines for their blunders.
GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
14 May 2014, 00:48
#10
14 May 2014, 00:48#10

 What made it horrible is that it was contaminated by both sides ...no decent side wants to win by crooked or deficient decisions ...there is no pride or confidence in this.

Anyhow Lions take this as a win...shows that refs don't control the result but integrity does...Lions just keep it up and don't bow to crooked or weak decisions...keep on playing good rugby...eventually the right results will come.

MO
moolaaPro2,380 posts
14 May 2014, 01:35
#11
14 May 2014, 01:35#11

 The mistake (if you can call it that) Jantjies made was not following through immediately as the Landers were rushing at him and attempting the kick (as Cruden did vs Ireland last year). He basically didn't move and appeared to reset himself before kicking at goal.

Perhaps the ref was confused by this and thought that by Jantjies resetting himself, then it was ok to just allow only one attempt. Clearly this was wrong after reading the law however it may go some way in explaining why he messed up.

Refs have been making massive errors all season and it doesn't look like it's going to improve any time soon!

— END OF THREAD —

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