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FORUM / RUGBY /  Lessons from the Bok June tests.

Lessons from the Bok June tests.

Started by Mozart50 REPLIES492 VIEWS· 29 Jun 2014, 16:40
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 Jun 2014, 16:40
#1
29 Jun 2014, 16:40#1

Firstly we have a very good coaching regime in place. Injuries and NH commitments were seamlessly accomodated as players were rotated. Issues were quickly resolved....for example the scrumming deficit against the Worlds was turned into a point of strength a week later. Youngsters all came through the experience well, because they were exposed at a time, and in a way they could handle.

 

 

In terms of players....Willie confirmed his "special player" status. The new Campese, he gives us a weapon which changes the team.

 

Habana, Morne and F du Preez all showed they can still compete. Pienaar is still a good bench choice, covering 3 positions well

 

JP adapted well to the outside centre berth....an Umaga like move.

 

Among the young backs, Mvovo looked great against weak opposition....but he did before and failed. I think he is a better player now but only the RC will tell. Goosen is obviously a major risk....unlikely to ever settle in the Bok 10 jersey. Especially because Pollard is now the putative successor. Cornel is a test wing with good vision.

 

As far as Serf is concerned....he tries very hard. But is simply not fast, elusive or strong enough to test top defences.

 

In the forwards Vermeulen was huge in every game. Schalk was excellent yesterday and Louw was superb. Alberts had a quiet, injury plagued series....Schalk may get the nod for the RC...with Alberts as a lock/flank sub. Coetzee is the forwards version of Serf....a trier who simply doesn't have the one thing to make him special.

 

In the locks everybody did well....Bakkies (MOM against the Worlds), Victor, Lood.....and even Flip apart from his penalties. HM has done a brilliant job of letting the veterans motivate the young chaps. Etzebeth if fit and Victor look like a possible starting pair.

 

In the hookers the Brits myth produced little again and Bismarck/Strauss are the ticket.

 

Props are the concern. Jannie remains a rock. But Coenie and Marcell looked out of their league at tighthead....and then Coenie flopped at loosehead and got hurt again. Gurthro was a force in the scrums and looks a likely starter in the RC. I'm worried about this disk thing that the Beast now has. Scrumming against Heyman will not have caused it....but it can't have helped. 

 

In all, a lot of fun with good results. The coaches will be delighted....they have created several very useful new options and demonstrated the viability of some of our veterans. We played Willie rugby....which is gloriously fast and imaginative. It was a joy to watch.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Jun 2014, 17:34
#2
29 Jun 2014, 17:34#2
 Mozart
In essence you try to summarize issues and in most cases are successful.   However, there are some points where you miss the boat completely:-
*   Pietersen did well enough as a makeshift center - but there are defense deficiencies and he is not really the answer at center.  He looked better yesterday. but ont eh whole was not a successful center.   
*   Serfontein did well enough to cement his place in the match day 23 for the RC.   He is a better proposition than you constantly make him out to be.
*   There is no mention of Morne Steyn - so do you accept that he is not a factor in Springbok selection anymore?
*   Alberts had two full games and was injured in the third game.  In neither of his games did he do anything of substance - so why should he be anywhere near the Springbok team?
*    Bakkies looked good in the first 15 minutes of the World team game and then went into invisible status.  He remained invisible in the first Welsh test and then went off with an injury.    Not suitable anymore - way past his best.
*    Matfield showed again a serious deficiency in physicality and is one-dimensional - looking good in line outs and out of depth in the rest of the game.
*    Steenkamp was a disaster in the first game from a scrummaging perspective and was solid in the second game.  He does nothing utside of scrumming and is not even considered by his Club to be good enough to start.
I admit there are problems with the selection of the props - but that can be sorted out by Meyer.    I think the props for the RC would be -
Tight head  -   Malherbe and Du PlessisLoose head  -  Mtwawarire and a string of loose heads more reliable and better than Steenkamp.        
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 Jun 2014, 22:57
#3
29 Jun 2014, 22:57#3
 Just a small point. Steenkamp. Didn't start in the Worlds match ...that was the Beast. You see it's okay to say a player is a disaster at scrumming.....there is no mathematical proof to the contrary...but when that player wasn't even on park, you run the risk of looking a bit stupid. No need to thank me.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Jun 2014, 23:29
#4
29 Jun 2014, 23:29#4
 Mozart
Sure - but when Steenkamp came on from the bench in that game he was a disaster.  Two scrums - two penalties.
He was on the park - of that everyone is sure about.  Don't thank m e for pointing it out to you.       
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
30 Jun 2014, 11:37
#5
30 Jun 2014, 11:37#5

Sorry Faggot ... promoting the tired, out of sorts elderly may have a few fools like Doos, and your Retarded bumchum convinced ... however the rest of us prefer the younger, better, rightful players as the only way forward.






ST
Sun-TzuClub Pro713 posts
30 Jun 2014, 12:28
#6
30 Jun 2014, 12:28#6
 All I can say is that the seniors jacked up the Boks to another level. Lood is very promising, but better than Bakkies? Younger players are the way forward.... in the long haul, not in the present. Stupidity would allow for a total clear-out, the same stupidity incidentally that wants to pick whoever is the next big thing every season. Stupid is as stupid does.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 Jun 2014, 12:35
#7
30 Jun 2014, 12:35#7

Ha ha Serfontein not strong enough......what a load of shit - he is one of the strongest backs out there.......when he takes contact he makes metres, when he puts in the hits, they are big.

 

This kid is the real deal, a far better prospect than Jean - no contest.......Jan will go down as our best 12 ever.

 

 

As for Coenie and Marcel, again a load of utter shit. The calls by the ref against Coenie were a laugh and Marcel was has solid as a rock in the scrums - one penalty conceded for a bind on the arm - a technical issue.

 

 

Keep making it up Moz, fact is......Morne was pathetic, as was Pienaar. Steenkamp a liability in every way. Bakkies and Matfield are well past it and complete liabilities in the side. Lood showed Bakkies up for the passenger he is. Matfield does nothing test after test

ST
Sun-TzuClub Pro713 posts
30 Jun 2014, 12:38
#8
30 Jun 2014, 12:38#8
 No he isn't. Please review the vid where Frans made him explode! He hasn't gained parity against ANY of the top centres he has encountered so far. Moz posted the stats and they say it all.

"Jan will go down as our best 12 ever"



CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Jun 2014, 12:43
#9
30 Jun 2014, 12:43#9
 Sun Tzu
You must really wake up to cold hard facts.   If you say there is a question mark about whether De Jager is better than Bakkies Botha - then go and look again at the test against Wales - where Bakkies played at lock in the first half of the game and De Jager in the second half.  The difference was like day and night - and the night was in this case Bakkies.   
The issue is not so much " in the long haul, not in the present "  - but whether the older players still perform on the level attained by the younger players.   If you keep older players because of reputation - without regard to present performances - you are indeed stupid and remove competitiveness from the Springbok team.
Nobody wants a clean sweep - but there definitely are players not producing the goo ds anymore and it is way pas time to show them the door after thanking them for services rendered.       
ST
Sun-TzuClub Pro713 posts
30 Jun 2014, 13:24
#10
30 Jun 2014, 13:24#10
You can't compare the two halves without noting the collective intensity of the team. I have no problems with Lood starting, but to say Bakkies is useless is a disgrace. If you are questioning whether the seniors are delivering or not then you simply have no capacity for even the most basic level of analysis. Your prejudice and stubbornness are extraordinary.
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
30 Jun 2014, 13:32
#11
30 Jun 2014, 13:32#11
 
You are a fool, Buggered!!

You and Faggot suit each other perfectly.
ST
Sun-TzuClub Pro713 posts
30 Jun 2014, 13:42
#12
30 Jun 2014, 13:42#12
 Likewise you and Eggman (ClevarMik? )
TT
The_TruthClub Pro471 posts
30 Jun 2014, 14:16
#13
30 Jun 2014, 14:16#13
 "*    Matfield showed again a serious deficiency in physicality and is one-dimensional - looking good in line outs and out of depth in the rest of the game."

"Bakkies and Matfield are well past it and complete liabilities in the side. "


Whatever.... Matfield made 32 cleans at the rucks...
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Jun 2014, 14:40
#14
30 Jun 2014, 14:40#14
 The Trooth Fairy
"Whatever.... Matfield made 32 cleans at the rucks."
Never mentioned by the commentator - so I am really amazed at that one.  Saw nothing of the kind either.   So when did it happen?  
TT
The_TruthClub Pro471 posts
30 Jun 2014, 15:11
#15
30 Jun 2014, 15:11#15
"So did it happen?"

There is a pretty decent chance that it happened during the match, because that is the official stats the Springbok coaching team have/use.

Plank!
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Jun 2014, 15:23
#16
30 Jun 2014, 15:23#16
 Where did you get that stats from - I would like to know for future reference.   However, that is hardly likely to have happened in any event - so maybe that would help me to look at the game again and see what role Matfield in fact played.   
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 Jun 2014, 15:32
#17
30 Jun 2014, 15:32#17

Oh what complete rubbish......Jan owned Roberts in the first test and completely dominated his opposite number on Sat.

 

No centre has got the better of Jan, that will never happen.

 

Sadly Jean returns from injury shortly and it will be back to the old man at 12 with Fourie to partner him once he has recovered from injury - what an insult that is going to be.

 

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,295 posts
30 Jun 2014, 15:37
#18
30 Jun 2014, 15:37#18
I would have to agree with the Truth.
I watched the game for a 2nd time and noticed that Matfield had a very high work rate. He was like an open side flanker often the 1st player to ruck. He was constantly clearing out and securing clean ball for his scrumhalf. 
Matfield reads the game very well. He is a nuisance to the opposition. 
Burger also had a very high work rate and was allways on the ball as well.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 Jun 2014, 15:42
#19
30 Jun 2014, 15:42#19

Shark and therein lies your rugby ignorance - since when is it the locks job to play as a flanker.......we need our locks doing the hard work.........geez, Victor gets owned in contact and that's why he spends his time running around like a back

 

Wake up man   

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Jun 2014, 15:46
#20
30 Jun 2014, 15:46#20
 Matfield has had a superb ser ies....our best forward by a mile.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Jun 2014, 15:50
#21
30 Jun 2014, 15:50#21
Coenie can't scrum....Marcell probably cant scrum  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Jun 2014, 15:52
#22
30 Jun 2014, 15:52#22
Mozart
Based on what did Matfield have had a superb serie and ebing our bst forward by a mile?  Explanation please.   
Easy to make sweeping statements - but some explanation of how you arrived at that deduction seems necessary.    
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Jun 2014, 15:53
#23
30 Jun 2014, 15:53#23
Jan is a bog ordinary centre who hasn't created one try this year....for the Bools or the Boks. Anybody who says he is going to be the best Bok 12 of all time, should be on medication. E specially when the same fool said JJ was going to be our best 13 since Danie Gerber.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Jun 2014, 15:54
#24
30 Jun 2014, 15:54#24
 All these guys who are suddenly pro Pollard, were massively pro Goosen 4 weeks ago.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Jun 2014, 15:56
#25
30 Jun 2014, 15:56#25
Marcel Coetzee is playing exactly the same game he was two years ago when we had to bring in Louw to shore up our loosie play....why anybody thinks he will be anything but a process contributor against NZ/OZ beats me. Did he turn over one ball on Saturday?  
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Jun 2014, 15:57
#26
30 Jun 2014, 15:57#26
Does Marcell van der Merwe weigh 129 KGs. If he does he has lead in his bones....he looked smaller than Bismarck.  
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Jun 2014, 15:58
#27
30 Jun 2014, 15:58#27
Steenkamp was the only prop in our 4 matches who put pressure on the opposing scrum....fact.  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Jun 2014, 15:59
#28
30 Jun 2014, 15:59#28
 Mozart
About Serfontein - Why male sweeping and unsubstantiated comments - when you cannot support your statements factually?
All the guys who supported Goosen - was because they were against the Stade Francais reject as our test flyhalf.   Comprehende?    
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Jun 2014, 15:59
#29
30 Jun 2014, 15:59#29
Hougaard's passes still bounce along the ground....and he still cant pick the ball up without the occasional knock....the ref  missed one on Saturday.  
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Jun 2014, 16:04
#30
30 Jun 2014, 16:04#30
SA Moms in the 4 match series...Bakkies, Willie, JP....foreign player MOMs Alex Cuthbert.....new player MOMS  none.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Jun 2014, 16:05
#31
30 Jun 2014, 16:05#31
 Mozart
At last we have something we can agree on.  Hougaard's performance on Saturday was substandard.  Incidentally I also thought thare was a knock - one missed by the ref - but what happened was Hougaard trie d to free the ball and it went backward hitting his foot. and going forward as a result.  It was thus not really a knock-on and it happened straight in front of the ref - so he did not miss the incident.   
However, Hougaard's service was poor than poor - so i do agree with you - he is clueless.      
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Jun 2014, 16:06
#32
30 Jun 2014, 16:06#32
"No centre has got the better of Jan....that will never happen" ....tell t hat to Alwyn Hollenbach.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Jun 2014, 16:35
#33
30 Jun 2014, 16:35#33
Jan Serfontein is no more effective a runner than de Wet Barrie, who he emulates with his inside step....but can't tackle nearly as well.  
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,295 posts
30 Jun 2014, 16:46
#34
30 Jun 2014, 16:46#34
The players should be adaptable to the situation so that the opposition cant get under our skin, especially with Northern Hemisphere refs that seem to allow players to enter rucks from the side. 

South Africa teams usually have lots of ball carriers to dominate the collisions, be it at SuperXV or Bok level . 
Where opposing forwards gain parity is at the breakdown. Look at Scotland last year, they were all over the breakdown in South Africa an the scoreline was close. 
Scotland tried the same thing over the weekend but Matfield and Co were much better at protecting the ball and offside line. Often Matfield was the first on the ball controlling the ball with his feet until the scrumhalf was in position to clear. 
Look at the New Zealand forwards. They have minimal ball carriers that dominate the advantage line, but they are all good at the breakdown as fetchers- even the locks.
Effecting ruck play is about controlling the offside line to prevent the opposition getting turn overs, slowing possession or putting pressure on the scrummie.
Matfield does play more like a loosie than a carrier, but with loosies like Alberts, Vermuelen the balance works out fine. 
When England beat the All Blacks in 2012, they won the battle of the breakdown. The English forwards were more physical and winning the collisions but as the All Black forwards do when losing the physicality stake- they hit the rucks really low and are all over the ball.  The English were able to control the offside line with good cleanouts, and this paved the way to the win.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 Jun 2014, 16:49
#35
30 Jun 2014, 16:49#35

Hollenbach did not come close to dominating Jan.......never beat him once - FACT

 

 

Its already been evidenced that Jan is more than capable of beating his man on the outside. At least Jan has a step, something Jean has NEVER had.

 

 

At the same age, Jan is clearly a far better prospect than Jean ever was. He will dominate at 12 once established as a test starter

 

 

JWC player of the tournament, now a Bok starter - onwards and upwards

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 Jun 2014, 16:50
#36
30 Jun 2014, 16:50#36
Mike stop speaking complete and utter shit about Hougaards service, his service was spot on apart from 1 poor pass - catch a bloody wake up  
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Jun 2014, 16:59
#37
30 Jun 2014, 16:59#37

Hollenbach outplayed Serf....fact. Serf never outplayed Roberts....he never beat his tackle once....despite  getting much better ball.

 

Cuthbert ran over Serf and stepped him all in one short set of phases...fact. Just as Speight gassed Serfontein in about 2 metres of space a few weeks back. He is a reasonable process tackler, but not somebody you want to rely on for crucial open field tackles. To compare this kid with a legend like Jean is hi larious.

 

 

And who the hell is JWC....and where the hell is JJ...both figments of your imagination?

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Jun 2014, 17:01
#38
30 Jun 2014, 17:01#38
Hougaard's service was inaccurate but slow. Still he did look about as muscled as Marcell van der Merwe....what a tiny frame that chap has.....but I forgot, lead in the pipes.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Jun 2014, 18:23
#39
30 Jun 2014, 18:23#39
Saffex
It was not only the one pass - he knocked balls on a couple of times and was in the main clueless.   I do niot think Hougaard should be anywhere near the Springbok side - he is just not good enough. 
 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Jun 2014, 18:25
#40
30 Jun 2014, 18:25#40
 Mozart
Have you never ever heard of the Junior World Cup?   It is not who the hell JWC is - so here is the answer.
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