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FORUM / RUGBY /  Lets wwake up to some facts in the RC last year

Lets wwake up to some facts in the RC last year

Started by clevermike13 REPLIES261 VIEWS· 01 Jul 2014, 13:09
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Jul 2014, 13:09
#1
01 Jul 2014, 13:09#1

If one analyses the results of the RC last year and effectively looks at performances - there are some issues that stood out.   


Argentina Tests


If one looks at the local test first - there was a problem in the first half of the game and we were not entirely on top of the situation - leading by 6-3 up to just before half time..   However, just before half time SA threatened to score and a Puma player made a deliberate knock down of the ball..  A penalty try and yellow card followed.


That really was the end of the game for the Pumas - especially when another player was yellow carded as well.   With 14 men on the field for virtually 20 minutes of the second half - the Pumas never showed and they were beaten with ease.


However, it was the away test that really showed deficiencies in the Springbok side.  Ball handling was poor and some players were bad in capital letters.   In the poor categoory of players can be included -


*   Morne Steyn clueless in execution;

*   JJ Engelbrecht - poor in both defense and attack;

*   Jannie du Plessis - poor in scrumming and defense.


Like in 2012 in 2013 the Argentinians were poor in the June tests.  They have  a habit of selecting fringe players for the June tests - often players part of the Pampas Vodacom Cup side and then select their front line internationals for the RC. 


We were bloody lucky to win that Mendoza test and that is a fact.   It was equal to what happened in the away test in 2012.   What is further extremely bothersome is while we struggled to beat them away last year - while the AB's and Wallabies had bonus point wins in Argentina.  


Can we have decent at home and away wins with bonus points against Argentina this year?    I m not so sure about that one.  The team this year is in some respects weaker than they were last year - and stronger in other respects.  Morne Steyn will probably be still in the team and that means no improvement in that component of the game.   The selection of Matfield  will weaken the Tight 5  considerably compared to last year. 


It all depends on the players selected by Meyer.  If he sticks with players like Matfield, Alberts and Morne Steyn we will be weaker than last year - so if we want to get the bonus points win - both in the local and away games - we need some real workers to see us through - not some reputation players.


Australian Tests


The Walalbies were weak last year was in the throws of change of the coach.  Like Meyer did after his appointment - McKenzie selected basiclly players from the Queensland Reds side and they proved to be not good enough.  Australian rugby last year - after a very opoor performance - especially in the third Lions test - really was in the doldrums.   


Bearing in mind that fact - coupled to their team selection -  we and the ALL Blacks beat them easily - both at home and away.   There were signs of serious change when the Wallabies beat the Pumas away from home by a huge margin.


This year McKenzie managed to turn the team around.   He looked at performances in Super 15 this year and made some really major changes to the team.  The result was two huge wins against the French and a major improvement in their performances.     


From a Wallaby perspective McKenzie decided there were no "holy cows" anymore and players like Genia, Cooper, Alexander, Robinson and Horwell  were not in the starting teamhe played this year.   The improvement was massive and unlike last year - the Wallabies will be hard to beat this year.


Can the Springboks beat them away and at home.   If we look at what happened in the second Welsh test in particular - the answer becomes problematic.   Unless there are some major changes in the team we field against the Wallabies - we have no chance of beating them.   We know that De Villiers and Etzebeth will be brought back in - but that is not the real answer.   It still leaves us with gaping holes and limited players like Morne Steyn, Willem Alberts, Victor Matfield and a questionable tight head prop.   


My guess is that we will lose the away game b ya substantial margin - which will force Meyer in making changes - which could result in a at home win.   


The All Blacks


We all know that a major problem last year was the mistake of Poite in carding Bismarck, but we ignore the other najor problem at Eden Park and that was embodied in the person of one player - Morne Steyn.


The All Blacks were penalized in our 22 and Steyn failed to find touch - the ball being caught on the halfway line and the AB's having space at their disposal - ran at the Springboks and ended up scoring one of their tries.   As i that was not enough - Morne had t take a penalty on the half way line and kicked it over the dead ball line.  Scrum on hte ahalfway line - the AB's got possession from teh scrum - Nonu broke the Morne Steyn tackle attempt and another AB try followed.   


With Bismarck off it would have been a miracle if we won that fame - but any idea of limiting the damage went out of the window because of Morne Steyn's pathetic performance.


The Ellis Park test could have been won by the Springboks - but for the pathetic defense of players like Engelbrecht, Morne Steyn and Willem Alberts - who gifted tries to the AB's.  The AB's was helped along by the inability of Alberts to make a tackle ball recovery a meter from where he fell over his own feet and idiotic play by Morne Steyn in not kicking the ball out seconds before the half time hooter.   


Can we beat the AB's this year?   It depends entirely on the player selection by Meyer.  Keeping handicaps like Morne Steyn, Alberts and Matfield in the team will definitely mean a loss for the Springboks - both away and at home.


Meyer will have to sharpen up his selections and will have to select players capable of performance and not select non-performing players based on experience and reputation only - otherwise losses in the RC are to be expected.                            


    

ST
Sun-TzuClub Pro713 posts
01 Jul 2014, 13:34
#2
01 Jul 2014, 13:34#2
You really are disgusting Michael. Morné made 100% of his tackles, two of which were try saving, but I already posted the footage. A good portion of his tackles were covering after Jannie, Duane, Eben, Jean and Habana slipped theirs! Ultimately he prevented New Zealand piling what could have been a record score on us. On attack? He was very good . What ultimately cost the Boks was a frenetic approach that demanded running from deep inside our half; New Zealand on the otherhand kicked for territory after each turnover and attacked from the red zone or just outside of it. Jean made the crucial defensive lapse which gifted New Zealand the bonus point and JJ was the very last man in that movement who was feeling Beauden up instead of trying to stop him. Your dishonesty is utterly repugnant. You even told me that video footage is a wild fabrication of the truth, that stats are only where the truth can be found (you conveniently moved away from that when I posted Frans' 2013 stats, which are in fact superior to Serfontein's 2014 stats!). A double-minded man is unstable in all his ways, how very true.

"If we look at what happened in the second Welsh test in particular - the answer becomes problematic."

Australia haven't had big runners since the days of Horan and Herbert! You cannot compare these two teams at all. Wales base their entire patterns and set plays off of the size of these men. Australia rely exclusively on space being available. The French test has proven practically nothing, especially in view of the fact that we had the best opposition of the three SANZAR giants. Australia are an inferior side under Ewan, Deans having kept Australia punching above their weight for many years. If we get sloppy, yes they can hurt us, but we have superiority at the breakdown and a vastly improved lineout from last year. Overall, it's a better balance and we have another quality wing besides Habana. It all depends on the starting centre pair and particularly solidity in the 13 channel, which was a problem throughout 2013 before the EOYT.

Argentina

You fail to acknowledge the collective intensity of the Argie side once on home soil - a place they traditionally step up their game. We always have them first up when they are fresh (more arrangements to suit Australia and New Zealand), the second test was all about Argentina gaining parity in the collisions and breakown. That in fact has a role to play in disrupting the quality and fluency of possession. But you never played rugby, so wouldn't understand these things - so you blame Morné as per usual.

Michael, your bleatings are becoming boring, please sing another tine for once.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Jul 2014, 14:05
#3
01 Jul 2014, 14:05#3
 Dim Sun
What test are you referring to insofar as the AB's are concerned when dealing with Morne Steyn's tackling?    What you blame on a host of other players is Morne's poor defense in those two tests - he made 16 tackles - missing 5.  That was a problem you keep on prattling about - denying that it did not happen.   It did and that was a fact.  Lies and deception on your part will not change the fact. 
"What ultimately cost the Boks was a frenetic approach that demanded running from deep inside our half"       BALLS - ATTACKING RUGBY DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU NEED TO THROUGH DEFENSE OUT OF THE WINDOW AS HAPPENED IN THAT TEST AS EMBODIED IN THE PLAYER CALLED MORNE STEYN.
 "The French test has proven practically nothing, especially in view of the fact that we had the best opposition of the three SANZAR giants."   Are you nuts or something - the Welsh side was poor in the 6 Nations - so what makes them the best opposition to play against?  Another statement - the Aussies score more tries with their present backline than they did in the past if they do not have running backline players - but then your take on Israel Folau is so pathetic - it really is unbelievable.  
"You ail to acknowledge the collective intensity of the Argie side once on home soil - a place they traditionally step up their game. "   Just one question - why do they colelctively intensify their game against us - and not against the AB's and the Wallabies?   
I will never wear away from reality and that remains a fact.  The dream of playing non-performers in tests will always be to our disadvantage and that remains a fact.    
ST
Sun-TzuClub Pro713 posts
01 Jul 2014, 14:21
#4
01 Jul 2014, 14:21#4
You are a disgrace Michael. Your little bleatings have already been debunked earlier this year.

"BALLS - ATTACKING RUGBY DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU NEED TO THROUGH DEFENSE OUT OF THE WINDOW AS HAPPENED IN THAT TEST AS EMBODIED IN THE PLAYER CALLED MORNE STEYN."

Balls? Did I say defence must go out of the window? I said what ultimately cost the Boks i.e., things which ended up damaging our chances of winning! And as it happened we played too quickly too often which strains the attack and plays into the defensive line's hands. Which resulted in turnovers and been kicked deep into our own half where we decided to run from deep time and again. You don't know it, but that's what really happened.

"
Are you nuts or something - the Welsh side was poor in the 6 Nation"

Are you seriously telling me that France and England played better in the Southern Hemisphere? I think perhaps you cannot understand either one because you lack two yourself (brain matter that is). It's been unanimously spoken that we faced the toughest examination. Australia scored more try against a very poor team. That French side was worse than the one the Boks destroyed with a 42 point score - we all know how that Tri Nations turned out *rolls eyes*. Australia have the same old problem, they cannot score if you do not give them space. A lack hard running going forward through the gainline means they cannot create space like the teams if the Golden Era of Aussie rugby. This was seen in their 6-0 win in the second test; hardly a demonstration of cutting edge attack now is it?

"Just one question - why do they colelctively intensify their game against us - and not against the AB's and the Wallabies"

Are you an actual South African? You don't sound like one at all, a turncoat without the courage to admit it? As it happens they have stood up to both of them before. They actually completely dominated Australia when the Aussies salvaged an undeserved 14-13 victory last year. Remember that? Or how they gave New Zealand a scare? Of course not, because that would scupper your anti-Bok stance. The big difference is that Argentina do not have the stamina yet to last an entire RC; having them fresh in the first two games means we get the full intensity. And that's no doubt the very reason why our friends across the pond would have them face us first every year.


As per Morné's defence? I'm going to post another vid of it and I'm going to completely make a fool of your anti-Morné tripe. I've collected your post here and will reference it in future encounters with you.
CH
ChippoPro3,372 posts
01 Jul 2014, 14:25
#5
01 Jul 2014, 14:25#5
 M ichael you are a filthy pig
ST
Sun-TzuClub Pro713 posts
01 Jul 2014, 14:28
#6
01 Jul 2014, 14:28#6
Note that what Michael considers a miss is Morné chasing the ball carrier from behind. Not once did he miss even one of his tackles when the ball carrier was ahead of him. He put locks and props to ground easily and even ran over Retallick. He played with the heart and spirit of a true Bok.
CH
ChippoPro3,372 posts
01 Jul 2014, 14:50
#7
01 Jul 2014, 14:50#7
 Michael is pathetic

He states nonsensical facts based on his limited vision and low IQ.
His ridiulous rants over how useless certain players are, are quite frankly absurd.
if one goes back to 2012, we will find that he has been ranting on about the same 3 players (Willem, Frans and Morne) since then, even though he has been proven wrong time and time again. (though i do feel that Morne has been playing on borrowed time).

Michael you are so pathetic.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Jul 2014, 15:02
#8
01 Jul 2014, 15:02#8
Sun Tzu
How many balls were turned over by the AB's in teh Ellis Park test - stemming fronm us playing too quick?   I can remember just one and that came from idiocy by Morne in not kicking the ball out seconds before halftime.   The other problems stem not for us playing too quick - but from very poor defense of which Morne, Alberts and Engelbrecht was really to blame for.   And the aimless kicking was less than it was in other games - but still account for return kicks by the AB's   
England beat the Welsh easily in teh 5 nations and played very well against the AB's but for the third test - where the steam ran out.  The would beat the Welsh easily in any game played and that is a fact.  The French played well in the second test against the Aussies - but in the other two tests they were pathetic.   But it is a known fact - you never know with the French which team is turning up on the match day - so there can be know doubt a reason for their unpredictability. 

Are you nuts of something?   Lets ook at the esults of the Argentina home games in RC last yearL-
SA  -   22 -17AB's -   33-15Australia -  54-17
"You fail to acknowledge the collective intensity of the Argie side once on home soil - a place they traditionally step up their game."   I ask again - why did they not up their game against New Zealand and Australia - both having bonus point wins - and we were sav by the bell from losing?  Ultinmately two penalty kicks saved us from a disgusting loss.
THE ISSUE YOU RAISED WAS THE HOME GAMES OF THE PUMAS - NOT THE AWAY GAMES.
I have no anti Bok stance.  Matter of fact I want to see the Springbok side selection being improved and the passengers removed from the team.  

Ag foeitog - poor Morne so crudekly attacked by me for being a poor defender.  He has been a poor player (inclusive of defense)  throughout his career and the Stade Francais Management found that out quickly enough.    It really is amazing that people refuse to admit that fact.
  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Jul 2014, 15:20
#9
01 Jul 2014, 15:20#9
 Chippo


You must realize that half my rants on this site is to upset Mozart and Sun Tzu - they are such easy fish to catch.
Mozart is obsessed with Francois Steyn, Morne Steyn, Alberts and Matfuield ( he cooled down a little bit about Bakkies Botha lately) and Sun Tzu really has some nutty ideas about Morne Steyn, Israel Folau and a few others.  So they go on the rampage with floral statements that makes me laugh all the time.
I think you are correct about Morne, Francois Steyn has cooked his own goose - so there will only be two other players Alberts and matfield - for em to make merry about.  What a loss!!!!!  
In a way I believe some of Saffex statements are correct - others ridiculous.  However, in the case of Mozart - he is always insisting on players who years ago was at their peak and at this stage is not showing anything.   For instance he would say "The poor opposition by the Scot last Saturday allowed Serontein and De jager to look good".   That opens up a question - why was Matfield not similarly good against the self-same poor opposition?  Is that not logical.
However, I really am worried about the Argentina issue.  I death in detail with that one - since for two years we struggled playing them in Argentina.  They played us according to our own game - and they come very close to beating us at our game.  Against them you need to play a wider game - which did not happen in either 2012 and 2013.   We play a wder game against them at home and all of that goes out of the window in the away games.   Why?   The answer is simple = it centers around backline deficiencies and the lack of ability of our Tight 5 to  really get the upper hand against them when they up their game.   We need to play a different game against them - up the strength of our Tight 5 and play a wider attacking game.   That basically is the reason why I feel that changes need to be made to deal with that issue.  
CH
ChippoPro3,372 posts
01 Jul 2014, 16:46
#10
01 Jul 2014, 16:46#10
 Michael
Look i agree with you on Morne.
But lets chat honestly about Willem.
His work rate is actually fairly high. Watch him closely when he plays.
His work at ruck time is pretty apparent.
He carries well.
And he certainly does put in some massive hits.

Frans...
I used to be a massive fan.
But his attitude doesnt seem to match his natural ability.
Why is it only he who has this apparent contractual issue? And even so, it should have been sorted out behidn closed doors.
In saying that, he is still a good option at 12. I've watched his play closely this year. He actually does distribute well.

I too have my best and worst players, but I like to admit when i'm wrong...
IE: I thought JJ would be our best 13 for many years to come... i am now beginning to have my doubts over his temprament
Similarly, i have never been a FLO fan... yet now i see him as one of the Boks biggest assets.
I used to think Duane was an absolute joke... I was wrong.

I think we need to be humble and man enough at times to admit when we get things wrong.

Cheers mate.
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
01 Jul 2014, 16:56
#11
01 Jul 2014, 16:56#11
 
issue.  


Chippo

Status: Squad member
Posts: 506 RE: Lets wwake up to some facts in the RC last year
July 01, 2014, 14:46:55 
But lets chat honestly about Willem.
His work rate is actually fairly high. Watch him closely when he plays.
His work at ruck time is pretty apparent.
He carries well.
And he certainly does put in some massive hits.


That type of argument does  not work well in Maaikie's books. ESPN do not have any stats on that.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Jul 2014, 17:02
#12
01 Jul 2014, 17:02#12
 Chippo
Like anybody else I have likes and dislikes of players.   I am a big fan of Jean de Villiers - always have been.  Same with Flo.  I also saw Le Roux playing for the Cheetahs in 2012 and thought he was special -even mentioned him as having a bright future at the end of 2012.
My problem with Willem Alberts is his deficiency in ball protection and recovery and his inability to catry balls in open field play and link in with the backline.   Those to my mind are serious limitations insofar as loosies are concerned.   He also have a speed deficiency - which limits his defense.   Already over 30 years of age - I think White is taking out insurance by tryiing to sign up Lappies Labuschagne to play for the Sharks.  If that signing is finalized I cannot see Alberts starting as a loosie for the Sharks next year.
I also thjought well of JJ at one stage - but I think the same as you do.  My problem with him is his inability to read the game and be effective in attacking play.  He is too much of a "running straight at the first defender" player t be effective.  
With du Preez out - who do you see as the scrummie to be going into the squad?             
CH
ChippoPro3,372 posts
01 Jul 2014, 17:25
#13
01 Jul 2014, 17:25#13
Lets agree to disagree on Willem.
  1. I find his line breaking to be fantastic.
  2. His bone crunching tackles are also well documented.
  3. As for his speed, i will put my bottom dollar on it that he would be quicker than Duane over 30m!

Regarding 9 for next year... man I dont know what they don't see in Reinach. I'm a big fan. He is quick, his pass is spot on and he has a good boot.... and he has a massive heart!
I really would like Hougie to come right. I think that he is a fantastic game breaker but unfortunately his form has been poor recently. He was ourr answer to FDP at one stage. He also acts on instinct 100% of the time as opposed to mixing logic and calmness with it. But he could still come good with age in my opinion.

What about little Faf? The kid can play. He is just a bit light at 68kgs.


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Jul 2014, 17:36
#14
01 Jul 2014, 17:36#14
 Chippo
I like Faf a heck of a lot - but cannot understand what Ackerman is up to - playing him from the bench.   In my opinion he is better than Cronje.   However - if he keeps on being on the bench - he is not going to make Meyer's shortlist.  
The only two scrummies as candidates at this stage is to my mind Reinach and Nic Groom - I think Schreuder is a show pony - nice for the teeny-bobbers to drool about. 
There is something amiss in the top storey of Hougaard.  Maybe he is not thinking rugby?  Do not know whether the Reena Steenkamp murder issue is still troubling him.   He is not performing like he did earlier and it cannot be a physical issue - it is something else.  At one stage I said he should go and get scrummie coaching from an expert - like Divan Serfontein - that may help him.        
— END OF THREAD —

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