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Lions player ratingsfrom Rugby24

Started by Mozart15 REPLIES704 VIEWS· 04 Aug 2018, 19:54
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
04 Aug 2018, 19:54
#1
04 Aug 2018, 19:54#1
Lions in Christchurch: Andries Coetzee: 5.5 Generally error-free showing by the fullback, who made his aerial claims assuredly. Carried the ball up spiritedly once or twice, but no surprise elements from him, either. Ruan Combrinck: 6 Slightly patchy showing from a man keen to regain the Springbok No 14 berth, though one of the more dangerous Lions back-liners on the night. Made one beautiful bust through the middle in the first half, and found a pleasingly long touch from a penalty. Some gremlins on defence, and a pass straight into touch. Lionel Mapoe: 5.5 Policed the outside centre channel reasonably well, though few opportunities with ball in hand. Superb track-back tackle on Jack Goodhue … but it still didn’t prevent a try, and he’d also just been beaten in an aerial 50-50 that sparked the ‘Saders attack. Harold Vorster: 6 Took a few intelligent options, including a smart grubber toward the corner flag on attack in first half. Surrendered a maul turnover. Courtnall Skosan: 5.5 Some plucky tackles, though fatally “sucked in” for Seta Tamanivalu’s try. Engineered one decent counter-raid from deep. Elton Jantjies: 4.5 Sadly, for all his talent, another too clearly error-laden performance on one of rugby’s more testing stages. Played too much in the pocket, even when Lions had generous ball and real estate. Made a pass to nowhere, overcooked some hoists expensively to hand back possession, and decision-making was ropey. Consummately outplayed at ten by the outstanding Richie Mo’unga. Ross Cronje: 5 You couldn’t complain too much about his basics, including mostly delivering accurate passes. But also short of X-factor and sometimes swamped before he could release the “pill”. Warren Whiteley: 5.5 Cool enough head in leadership terms, but personal showing little more than average. One clever pass out of a tackle, but another that went astray. Cyle Brink: 6 Struggled initially to put a stamp on things, including penalty giveaway for not rolling. But earns a mark-up for his sensational break out of two attempted tackles to streak away for Lions’ first try. (Justin Marshall praised his “honest, brutal power” in doing so.) Kwagga Smith: 4.5 Would have hoped for a better showing after his red card against the same foes in last year’s showpiece. But little to no impact in scavenging terms, and missed a couple of costly tackles. Franco Mostert: 7 A heart-and-soul swansong for the Lions: no more than you’d expect from their ever-consistent warhorse? Scrapped earnestly at coalface, and was twice (once in a try-saving sense) the last Lions defender at the corner flag to confirm his overall energy. Marvin Orie: 5.5 Has had eye-opening, constructive fire in his belly for much of the season, but here he just fell short of more customary standards in 2018, by my book. Ruan Dreyer: 4.5 Very effective earlier in the knockout phase, here the tighthead anchor couldn’t assert himself at scrum time. Won one penalty as rival Joe Moody lost bind, but also leaked two, plus spilled a ball in contact. Malcolm Marx: 6 Seemed a little muted in first half, though Crusaders were also watching the No 2 dangerman like a hawk. Came much more strongly into his own after break, including typically muscular barge over line for 68th-minute try that (very briefly) gave his team unlikely game-snatch hope. Jacques van Rooyen: 5 Scrum was one area Lions had hoped to slightly edge; it didn’t happen and Van Rooyen laboured for any truly assertive heaves. Standout substitute: Aphiwe Dyantyi: 6.5 Replaced Skosan in 53rd minute and immediately looked lively, slippery. Also put in one courageous high-ball challenge where he got the better of the much brawnier Tamanivalu, forcing an error.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
04 Aug 2018, 19:56
#2
04 Aug 2018, 19:56#2

Combrinck was no better than Jantjies...4.5

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
04 Aug 2018, 19:59
#3
04 Aug 2018, 19:59#3
Agreed. Nor was Harold Vorster a 6.
CH
ChippoPro3,372 posts
04 Aug 2018, 20:59
#4
04 Aug 2018, 20:59#4
Well done to a truly world class crusaders team. It's no easy feat shutting out the Lions. They managed to do it. The poor Lions ratings is more testiment to the outstanding opponents than it is to the Lions actual performance on the day.
AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
05 Aug 2018, 01:55
#5
05 Aug 2018, 01:55#5

Rugby is a game of collisions, and if you lose those, the game becomes much more difficult. The Lions were outgunned physically. Expecting a few individuals to break the game open Was always going to be a very tall order. The only breakdown menace I have ever seen who can dominate the opposition, even in a beaten pack, is Brussow. The only man in all of rugby past and present. Yesterday, even that wouldn't have been enough. The better team won. 

As far as ratings. I don't think I'd change very much. Which is rare. 

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
05 Aug 2018, 09:45
#6
05 Aug 2018, 09:45#6
Orie was utterly useless as he has been all season. It’s pathetic that the talented Erasmus is not ahead of him, clearly a bloody quota selection. Marx, Vorster, Mostert, Brink and Combrink were good. Cronje is the worst 9 I have seen in a long time. Cost the Lions a try after the Combrink break. Was too slow to take advantage of the scrambled defence. Am a big fan of Jantjies but he has been average this year. Gone are his sublime touches putting players into space, now he tends to just shuffle it on. Saders played it smart committing very few to the breakdown keeping numbers to defend and took their limited opportunities on attack to make it count. Their coach is the best in the business you can tell the team love him he is one of the lads. The surfer
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
05 Aug 2018, 10:47
#7
05 Aug 2018, 10:47#7

Dave

Jantjies has been poor all through this year,   Put under pressure he folds badly.   He has develoed a technique of making hospital passes - must have learnt that from Morne Steyn.   There technique differed though - Morne stood deep in the pocket and his passes were slow, because of the fact he never attacked the gain line the defenders  went for the potential recipient.   Jantjies ran a few steps to the recipient and then passed when the defenders are on the recipient. 

However, I still rate Morne below Jantjies at flyhalf.    

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
05 Aug 2018, 12:21
#8
05 Aug 2018, 12:21#8

Morné's passes were fast and long. Cite one hospital pass that he threw. I already debunked your myth about him never attacking the gainline, yet here you are, spouting the same nonsense again!

Jantjies had some good and bad moments. It wasn't entirely bad. However he does things, like Cooper, that you really wish he didn't. Struggles to make the right decision in key moments. He certainly wasn't "standing in the pocket" all game, he played quite flat at times and made some good surges into the line. This notion that a player either plays flat all game or is too deep all game is very telling about certain individual's ability to read the game accurately. 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
05 Aug 2018, 13:54
#9
05 Aug 2018, 13:54#9
In Tokkieland Morne Steyn couldn't pass and Jordaan didn't sink the Sharks by missing Read. It's a nice alternative universe.
AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
05 Aug 2018, 15:10
#10
05 Aug 2018, 15:10#10

I've noticed a pattern. There is a player he hates. That player is the worst in his position in rugby history. There is then an alternative that is the Jesus of his position and the best in world rugby.

Frans sucks; Damian is awesome

That kind of thing. But he often contradicts himself. Jake and Meyer are the worst coaches in Rugby history. Morné and Jantjies are the worst 10s in Rugby history. Shall we add Du Preez as the worst 9 in Rugby history? 

When I asked questions about defensive assignments, patterns and plays he said I was using make believe terms. If I didn't know better I'd think Clever Mike was a cartoon character. It's the context which makes sense to me. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
05 Aug 2018, 17:27
#11
05 Aug 2018, 17:27#11

I have heard about the theory of Morne's  wonderful  passes dreamed up by Lurker all the time, but it never happened.   When Morne passed balls it essentially were hospital passes - nothing more. 

Frans shucks - sure he did constantly since his return from France in 2012 in horrible physical condition.  I said clearly that De Allende is the best of a very average lot - but still 10 times the center Fat Franie was since 2012.

I never said Jake was the worst - he was not the wonder coach you make him out to be - but he was a passable coach with some limitations like a problematic knowledge of backline play.   Meyer was just the second bottom of the lot as a coach = no - game plan - and his record since November 2014 stank to high heaven. 

Problem is you and Mozart has one thing in common - scoring of tries does not count at all - the only things counting in your book is defense and kicking.   But then you cannot understand the difference between BS out of hand kicking and strategic kicking.   And your quoting of defensive patterns from the coach handbook is total BS.  Each circumstance may have different connotations in practice, but the patterns itself is not static and can never be.   What counts is whether tackles are effectively made or not and that is not the result of a pattern - but the defensive abilities of players.   Let me be explicit players fan out to cover the opposition and then advance to make tackles - miss them as frequently as Morne and Fat Fransie did and there is a problem which no plan can solve. .     

   

  

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
05 Aug 2018, 18:06
#12
05 Aug 2018, 18:06#12
Morne was as utterly useless as Cronje is. Both lack basic rugby talent
AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
05 Aug 2018, 18:28
#13
05 Aug 2018, 18:28#13

Then it will be easy to recount one hospital pass. Go on Clever Mike, the floor or yours.

And the most ignorant thing of all,. claiming that Meyer had no game plan. Every coach has a game plan you ninconpoop! Do you honestly believe that a Super rugby winning coach, who built an entire team from rubble, will send players onto the field with literally zero preparation? That's unbelievably ignorant. The level of a small child to be perfectly honest. 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
05 Aug 2018, 20:23
#14
05 Aug 2018, 20:23#14
Let's have the hospital passes Tokkie...put up or shut up.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
05 Aug 2018, 20:43
#15
05 Aug 2018, 20:43#15

Trust everyone saw Kwagga's rating and will now acknowledge Plum and i were totally correct about Kwagga needing to play center.

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
05 Aug 2018, 21:57
#16
05 Aug 2018, 21:57#16

Kwagga has no future at centre. It would be on par with Mallet's Bergamasco experiment. 

— END OF THREAD —

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