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FORUM / RUGBY /  Lock a force to be reckoned with; Patrick McKendry NZ Herald

Lock a force to be reckoned with; Patrick McKendry NZ Herald

Started by Just_win34 REPLIES451 VIEWS· 10 Jul 2014, 09:37
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JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
10 Jul 2014, 09:37
#1
10 Jul 2014, 09:37#1
Patrick Tuipulotu showed early promise and then followed through with consistently impressive playPatrick Tuipulotu's bulk and willingness to clatter into defences makes him a high-value impact player. Picture / APN

As the Blues prepare to review a season full of missed opportunities, there will be some bright spots to light the gloom.

Bryn Hall has proven to be a halfback of promise and Jerome Kaino has been immense on his return from Japan when nobody knew how he would cope after two years away. The most significant highlight, though, just might be the rise and rise of lock Patrick Tuipulotu, a quietly-spoken 21-year-old who put his hand up to fill a problem position at the franchise and who forced his way not only into the starting line-up in his first season, but also the All Blacks.

"It's been a stellar year for me," he admitted yesterday. "I never could have predicted this. I've been fast tracked into everything."

Tuipulotu has deserved everything he has received this season, including the award as players' player of the day in the 21-13 defeat to the Crusaders last weekend.

He believed he would only fill a development-type role, even after Culum Retallick was ruled out without playing a match. Down to one fit and experienced lock in Tom Donnelly, the Blues sent an SOS to Hayden Triggs but the former Chiefs and Highlanders player wasn't able to force his way past Tuipulotu for a starting spot.

Tuipulotu's promise could be seen at the second match of the season, when he was a standout in the big victory over the Crusaders at Eden Park and he backed it up throughout the season in an incredibly consistent display despite his relative youth.

At 120kg and nearly 2m tall, Tuipulotu is a big man, but even he is smaller thanWaratahs giants Will Skelton and Kane Douglas. The physical and mental strength to not take a backwards step against men of that size meant his confidence rose exponentially.

"It proved to myself that I belonged here," he said.

Tuipulotu said his gains in pre-season training set the foundation for his form. His performances caught the eye of the coaches early on as he set personal bests in the gym and elsewhere, and he said he was looking forward to building on that work.

However, after his two substitution appearances for the All Blacks in the final two tests against England, Tuipulotu should expect to be involved in the RugbyChampionship and beyond, especially with Luke Romano not likely to be in the frame until the end-of-year tour at the earliest because of his broken ankle. Tuipulotu's bulk and willingness to clatter into well-set defences makes him a high-value impact player.

One Blues player who has only pre-season training to look forward to is captain Luke Braid -- the openside flanker due to have a shoulder operation today which will rule him out of the game for the rest of the year.

It is a sad way to end the season for Braid, a consistently high-class performer despite carrying a rotator cuff problem for most of the year.

Prop Tony Woodcock has also been ruled out of tomorrow's match against the Chiefs at Eden Park because of a shoulder injury, though his is probably just a one-week lay-off.

Sam Prattley will replace Woodcock at loosehead, while Brendon O'Connor comes in for Braid.

JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
10 Jul 2014, 09:40
#2
10 Jul 2014, 09:40#2
 Another lock coming through & looking good.
3K
3ku1Pro2,580 posts
10 Jul 2014, 09:59
#3
10 Jul 2014, 09:59#3
 Haha yes he is ssshh don't tell any sa bloggers
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
10 Jul 2014, 11:28
#4
10 Jul 2014, 11:28#4

3ku1: I will help our SA blogger mates:

 

 "He is too small, he can do the grunt work in the tight five, Etzabeth will kill him, another net ball kiwi player".

 

There that about sums it up from and SA blogger perspective, lol

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
10 Jul 2014, 12:27
#5
10 Jul 2014, 12:27#5
 JW 120 kg of kiwi lard can be reduced by approximately 20% to come to the real weight value.Hope that helps you and the struggling 3 IQ. 
Please note the size of the Oz locks and have the Bledisloe Cupin ready for shipment. 
Ensure adequate supply of salve as Redsman will be over you oaks like a rash! Hahhahaha
My Kbbs friends  will of course have my sincere condolences!!


GR
GronNewbie8 posts
10 Jul 2014, 12:31
#6
10 Jul 2014, 12:31#6
Okay.  Thanks for helping.
Don't really know how that is relevant to SA bloggers.  Size is only an issue for the boks, and I doubt he's aiming to play for the Springboks.
Etzabeth needs to actually play rugby to get a chance to 'kill him'.
PS: 1.98cm is my length as well.... still not 2m.  Luckily!  Most door-entrances are 2m, thus we don't have to bend to enter a room.   But we can't have mohawks.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
10 Jul 2014, 12:49
#7
10 Jul 2014, 12:49#7
 Gron exactly so. tui poo lotto will be a lottery in the lineouts. 
Too short really. Locks are over 2 m these days. Old man woodcock will find him a bit heavy to lift as well. Mealamu will miss with his throw ins due to failing eyesight. A shambles in short.




JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
10 Jul 2014, 13:06
#8
10 Jul 2014, 13:06#8

 Beeno: please engage brain before trotting out the usual SA single-minded approach to the lock position.

 

Visualisation provide to improve effectiveness

 

As usual kiwis have their own approach to defining what is needed in each postion of rugby, e.g. first-five; the back three; loose forwards; and now locks and hookers.  You guys just want big guys who can punish, there is no emphasis on mobility or ball handling skills. Listen to our good friend CleverMike on the loose forwards (disregard his views on the tight five though, lol)

 

Gron: welcome to the forum!

 

 

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
10 Jul 2014, 13:13
#9
10 Jul 2014, 13:13#9
 Yes a hearty welcome to Gron - another kiwi to educate it appears! Sigh.
JW Mike is just picking up on my view mentioned last year and even before tha etc that on the highveldt we need a pacier loose trio. Meyer has yet to twigg but hopefully the penny will drop.
As for size well we cant help it that our guys are just naturally bigger etc. Let's not let the green eyed monster possess us like as in ou saSUE case kbbs (kiwi bird brains). 


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
10 Jul 2014, 13:26
#10
10 Jul 2014, 13:26#10
The New Zealand teams are so thin on the ground insofar as locks are concerned - that even a very average lock produces waves of praise singing in that country.   They have four locks they write stories about - Retallick, Sam Whitelock, Bird and now this one - with Luke Romano virtually never playing this year.
All theri locks are no good in tight 5 play - they all are quasi-loosies - and the fans think that is all that is required from a lock.   Prsonally  think they need a lock development programme and should - like the Aussies - goo hunting for players from the Pacific Islands.  They have not had a lock of substance in their Under 20 squad for years - and that is a fact.  
A player like Scickerling is better than naything they have in senior ranks and he is only 18 years of age.   That is the real weak point in AB rugby and the situation is not improving    
MO
moolaaPro2,380 posts
10 Jul 2014, 13:56
#11
10 Jul 2014, 13:56#11
 Mike, your continued assertion that NZ locks are weak is debatable.If I was you I'd be more worried about the positions from 9-14 in SA rugby where you are very weak. Look at the fuss being made of Pollard who had an unspectacular debut against that power house of rugby, Scotland!!
ST
Sun-TzuClub Pro713 posts
10 Jul 2014, 14:02
#12
10 Jul 2014, 14:02#12
 Lock is not a strength of New Zealand rugby, so I don't expect very much from Tui. Moolaa, Pollard did things in that test that Beauden and Cruden have never done, will never do... namely, burst through multiple defenders. He has physicality on his side, speed and good in general playy; already he is a more complete player. New Zealand will be searching for their next Carter for the next few decades. Once McCaw retires... no more freebies at the breakdown either. You have your own troubles to contend with.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
10 Jul 2014, 15:19
#13
10 Jul 2014, 15:19#13
moolaa
I would say I agree about some f your comments  on weaknesses in the Springbok team - but I think you are wrong about the Springbok backline potential - there are enough candidates that can fill the holes and do better than you think they will do.  However, I do believe that on the whole the NZ backline player situation is better than their SA counterparts.  
The discussion here - I believe is around the NZ Tight 5 situation.  That is and will remain a serious headache for the AB's.   They really have no answer in that case.  They have two excellent loosies - McCaw is definitely not a factor anymore.  For the rest I do not think a single New Zealand forw ard is better than their SA counterparts - that is if Meyer is not stupid enough to select Matfield at lock.   
In the Ellis Park test last year the NZ backline only managed to get 40% ball possession - this year with the right selections it will be less.   A backline cannot function without good balls to play with.    The problem last year for the  Springboks were the putrid defense and the clueless game of Morne Sten and players like Willem Alberts.   It is unlikely that the AB's will have those privileges again this year. 
     
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
10 Jul 2014, 15:48
#14
10 Jul 2014, 15:48#14
Most NZ teams live off less than 50% of the ball from set piece. ABs & other kiwi teams find other ways to get the ball & make sure they use it effectively when they do. We have traded big player for not as big but more mobile & skilled players. Usually a winning formula but sometimes the opposition shuts us down. Those are the trade-offs. 
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
10 Jul 2014, 16:16
#15
10 Jul 2014, 16:16#15
 Not traded as there were none to trade. But yes Jw your skills levels have been good.
Ours are being upped but man it is a strange thing as one doesnt even have to reinvent the wheel. One can simply study the opposition moves.
I would say the skills levels in the Lions and Cheetahs are fine (But lack squad depth). Sharks average to slightly above. Stormers average but improving and bulle less than average.
I do believe however all SA sides are moving to a better balanced game. Trouble is our playing stocks are being raided mercilessly.



AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
10 Jul 2014, 16:23
#16
10 Jul 2014, 16:23#16
 @mike,

"The discussion here - I believe is around the NZ Tight 5 situation.  That is and will remain a serious headache for the AB's. They really have no answer in that case."

a serious headache? no answer? really?
this tight 5 has won everything since the WC, everything. And you think that it's a headache?
Not only they've won everything but they also gave a masterclass in the recent series against England on how to play the modern game. They all five were outstanding during the 3 matches but specially in the last one. Watch this match again if you want to see how the total rugby is played and pay special attention to Franks and Woodcock, it's really worthy to see.
They all move all around the park like loosies which doesn't mean that they play like loosies. They keep doing their jobs and their work rate is miles and miles away from that of the boks.

Talking about locks, it seems that you saffas only look after the strenght carrying the ball and yes, in this chapter probably Etzebeth is the best though he cannot rest on his laurels with Skelton coming so strong.
But the current AB locks are more complete beeing better than the SA locks in every other facet of the game, with Sam Whitelock beeing the most complete and therefore the best in the world.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
10 Jul 2014, 16:38
#17
10 Jul 2014, 16:38#17
 abass you need to see a shrink who specialises in helping severely brain washed oaks.Invite ou JW and 3 IQ along with you please.Thanks
Do you recall the severe spanking the Poms gave you in the UK?Do you recall how the English second string outplayed you etc etc. 
How does one assist one so lost? 





JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
10 Jul 2014, 16:57
#18
10 Jul 2014, 16:57#18

Beeno: you have to harp back in history to 2012 to find a game the ABs lost, lol

 

As stated in my post above, sometimes the opposition shuts us down. This was such a case but the ABs have devised a winning formula. Bok fans have perfected a whining formula. Cloudy proved that (with the assistance of the self proclaimed genius Dr Moz).

 

Sure the Boks are gradually stumbling into a strategy of the modern rugby era but knowing what to do & having the players to execute it are two different things.

 

So, the kiwi idea of a lock's responsibilities & that of the tight 5 are different (our tight five has double duty, i.e. set piece and open play) but which team is winning? 

 

No need to feel bad Beeno you can always become an AB supporter

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
10 Jul 2014, 17:07
#19
10 Jul 2014, 17:07#19
 RAWs dont count. Hence JW your real win % is about 50% - being generous here.
Next
JW I am working on finding a team I can support the abs against. Its hard work but I am persevering.
AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
10 Jul 2014, 17:38
#20
10 Jul 2014, 17:38#20
  I'm lost?
well, that's what was choosen as team of the week for the june window's last week in Rugby365, a SA site:

5 - Will Skelton (Australia):
The find of the international season, living up to the promise he showed in Super Rugby.
Bubbling under:
Sam Whitelock (New Zealand)

4 - Brodie Retallick (New Zealand):
The best enforcer around.
Bubbling under: Rob Simmons (Australia)

3 - Owen Franks (New Zealand):
Powerful scrumming, good carries and flawless on defence.
Bubbling under: Jannie du Plessis (South Africa)

2 - Tatafu Polota-Nau (Australia):
Still the most reckless, but at the same time effective, defender.
Bubbling under: Dane Coles (New Zealand)

1 - Tony Woodcock (New Zealand):
Probably his best game at Test level in years.
Bubbling under: James Slipper (Australia)


As you can see all the AB tight 5 is in it. I could't find the team of the second week but I'm sure there were at least 2 or 3 AB tight5 players.

The AB outplayed? you still live in your fantasy planet of Denial where the shrinks are more needed
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,294 posts
10 Jul 2014, 18:19
#21
10 Jul 2014, 18:19#21
 ABasquefan
 
Status: Baby Bok 
Posts: 252RE: Lock a force to be reckoned with; Patrick McKendry NZ Herald
July 10, 2014, 14:23:45a serious headache? no answer? really? 
this tight 5 has won everything since the WC, everything. 
I think more credit should go to the backline for winning, not the tight five. This tight five was bullied all over the park on the end of the year tour and scraped wins against all the N.Hemishpere teams. 
If rugby games were 60 minutes and not 80 minutes, the All Blacks could potentially have lost all the games they played in.The ABS are most dangerous in the last 20 minutes when space opens up and they can exploit this with their superior backline passing skills. 
Credit where credit is due, their backline is phenomenal and can win games with less possesion, but their tight five was slapped around so much at the EOYT that they all wished their were married to Julian Savea. 
The Springbok forwards on the other hand smashed the opposition by dominating the collisions first before going wide. A player like Fat Albert becomes very effective on the softer pitches. 
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
10 Jul 2014, 18:19
#22
10 Jul 2014, 18:19#22

Beeno: some clarification on our evolving terminology:

 

You may notice that our list of acronyms includes more than RAWS. For example there is FACT (Ficiticous Analysis Contrary to the Truth) - please note capitalisation is critical to avoid confusion, lol (Moz is often accusing CleverMike of FACTS).

 

I beleive your FACTs are up to the normal standard on this thread. High in FACTs but low on facts.

 

Clarification on RAWs. These are usually identified by sore losers and it is not a term a person with high standards of sportsmanship should be associated.

 

Hopefully you are now totally confused

 

 

JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
10 Jul 2014, 18:24
#23
10 Jul 2014, 18:24#23

Sharkbok: if the credit goes to the backs and not the tight five as you claim, this would mean the tight five are not as important as some claim & that the AB strategy is the right one.

 

In anycase, my view is that both an effective tight 5 and an effective backline are needed to be no. 1 in the world & this is the case with the ABs.

 

Anyway you look at it the ABs are winning & that is a fact

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,294 posts
10 Jul 2014, 18:36
#24
10 Jul 2014, 18:36#24
Just_win, having tight forwards that are for the most part not strong ball carriers is working for the All Blacks. Their tight forwards are more playing towards a loose forward role with being the first to a ruck etc.
The All Blacks strategy is either kick for position or they spread the ball wide even off first phase. Rarely do they carry straight through the middle by drives or pick and carries, they actually look to avoid the trench warfare and battle of the collisions.
Having tight forwards whom are more like loosies that are competitive at the breakdown works for the ABS because it leans towards the strength of their backs. 
This is especially effective on the harder pitches.Running the ball from side to side will result in more rucks away from the first phase contact point, and this requires more fetchers to be at the point of breakdown. This is good in SUPERXV, and for 4nations on harder pitches. South Africa would most likely do better against the ABS at sea level than on the high-veld. 
World Cups are more often tighter affairs, as are games played on softer pitches. I do not see the All Blacks winning the World Cup in the Northern Hemisphere soon, and if the ABS play the same way as last year on the EOYT I expected them to take at least one loss.
I believe if SA had played the ABS last year on the EOYT, the boks would have won. 
A forward pack of strong ball carriers can keep it tight through many phases before going wide. This will also result in penalties which the Boks can use the dominate the territorial game and convert into 3 pointers as well. 
As long as they are effective at the breakdown closer to the set pieces, then the ABS are going to be in trouble. The breakdown out wide is going to be more of a lottery if the defence is not sucked in first.
Driving Mauls, along with pick and carries with quick recycling will have the ABS on the back foot and their defense will crack. It will suck in defenders and disorganize the defence as the boks can go straight through the middle, or go wide with someone like Willie Leroux coming in at 2nd receiver. 
AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
10 Jul 2014, 19:32
#25
10 Jul 2014, 19:32#25
 @sharkbok,
"This tight five was bullied all over the park on the end of the year tour"

that is completely false, it didn't happen except in your biassed mind.

"The Springbok forwards on the other hand smashed the opposition"

That's very funny. Since you bring the EOYT to the table we should begin to talk about who the opposition were.
The AB contested Ireland and England, first and second in the last 6nations and 4th and 5th in the IRB rankings, plus france. While the springboks played Wales, France and Scotland. There's not possible comparisson.
The only SA contender who could bring a part of the thread the Irish and English represent was Wales.
And how did you win them? After 2 tries in the first minutes, the springboks were outplayed and outscored for the next 60 minutes and this welsh dominance was only stopped by a blatant mistake of the ref who conceded a try to Jaque Fourie when he was 2 meters before the kicker, du Preez I thin k. That mistake changed the whole dynamic of the game and stopped the welsh reaction when they were just 1 or 2 points behind.
And yes, you smashed Scotland but not so much France. But Scotland....
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
10 Jul 2014, 19:50
#26
10 Jul 2014, 19:50#26
 Sharkbok: the ABs continue to evolve their game & now you see them use the rolling maul. Just like years ago when a deans coaxed oxide team outplayed the ABs with strategic kicking & superior high ball catching, the ABs learned this & it is now a major strength. 
They have used the pick & go for sometime now. They don't have an over reliance on these two plays though - unlike the Boks who while still trying to diversify have not achieved it yet. 
The RC will be great this year as both teams are improving.
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,294 posts
10 Jul 2014, 19:50
#27
10 Jul 2014, 19:50#27
@basquefan,
I do not see much difference between Wales and Ireland. I believe they are 2 teams of similar ability. They could play each other 10 times and either could win 5 times. Yes Ireland better in the piss nations last yea, but look at Wales record over the last few years and it is better than Ireland. I would say that Wales are marginally the better team.
To me the only teams from the N Hemishpere ever capable of winning a World Cup are England and France.Although now days France are useless compared to the team they used to be, and even Wales and Ireland are better. Not sure if this is going to be permanent or if it is just a blip on the history of French rugby.
Didnt the Boks have 2 tries disallowed against Wales that were 50/50 calls, and at no time did Wales look like they were contendes in the game.
Scotland are a non factor. 
However comparing apples with Apples- France vs Boks, or France vs ABS- it was clear who was the tougher opposition. At no time in that game were the Boks pushed by France, but the ABS were.


JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
10 Jul 2014, 19:57
#28
10 Jul 2014, 19:57#28
Head-to- head is the best measure. When was the last time the Boks beat the ABs?  
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,294 posts
10 Jul 2014, 20:12
#29
10 Jul 2014, 20:12#29
@Just_win. I believe this is down to the ABS having a quality coaching team for going on 12 years now.
Jake White's teams usually beat the All Blacks in SA, but he never managed to do so in New Zealand. Jake White inherited a shambles from the previous coach (Staulie) who was worse than useless.
In 2008 the clown Pdivvy inherited Jake Whites young but experienced world cup winning team. These contained some of the best players in their positions in their world, and in their prime. 
Pdivvy Boks managed to beat the ABS allot, but lost to Australia more than any other bok coach- but the wins were more in despite of him.
Then in 2012 Hieneke Meyer inherited them shambles from Pdivyy. Their is no doubt that the Bok team is getting better each year with a settled and professional coaching staff.
The All Blacks had Graeme Henry for 8 years, and then the assistant coach took over. This is allot of continuity from a very good coaching outfit. 
Jake White should have continued after 2007 or Meyer should have got the job. 
I am pretty sure that chopping and changing coaches is bad for a team. It is good to get the best available and not fire them. The Boks may have Meyer for another 4 more years. 
Pdivvy is currently the coach of an amateur university club r ugby team
MO
moolaaPro2,380 posts
10 Jul 2014, 23:52
#30
10 Jul 2014, 23:52#30
 Sun Tzu, what a short memory you have! Remember Beauden Barrett bursting through 3 tackles last year at Ellis Park to score a brilliant individual try?I watched the entire SA vs Scotland game and don't recall Pollard doing much "bursting" at all! You must have watched a different game mate! He's a younger version of Morne; solid but no flair.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
11 Jul 2014, 00:05
#31
11 Jul 2014, 00:05#31
 abass you are quoting a nz journo. what hope have you of getting the truth and not delusional material I ask with tears in my eyes! 
Keep telling em Sharkbok. The soil though is rocky. Skulls are thick and brain cells at a premium! 



JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
11 Jul 2014, 00:41
#32
11 Jul 2014, 00:41#32
Beeno: your brain has come unplugged again, please plug it in; Thanks
Illustration provided as a courtesy
AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
11 Jul 2014, 00:53
#33
11 Jul 2014, 00:53#33
 And for you that's the main point of the discussion, where the web is from, isn't it? always staring at the finger that points to the moon instead of looking the moon itself
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,294 posts
11 Jul 2014, 01:03
#34
11 Jul 2014, 01:03#34
Abasque fan, I do not quite understand the riddle about the Moon, but the moon is not made of green cheese.
However what I can say is that the Boks rank number two in the world,  and they have been the team that have beaten the All Blacks the most, a lot more than other teams.
For the last 20 years or so the ABS have been a better team for most of the time. Sometimes the gap has been close and sometimes wide. The gap has certainly closed over the last 2 years with Meyer in charge. Being 2nd best is a hell of allot better than getting beat by Ireland and Wales. Ireland have a population of about 4 million people- how can you live with them beating France? Do you still support France, or have you just become a fan boy of New Zealand?
The Boks are on the up- their can be no doubt about that.The French team is of no match for Bok power.
France however has just become a retirement village for South African players to cash in on. 
PO
polyboyClub Pro601 posts
11 Jul 2014, 01:17
#35
11 Jul 2014, 01:17#35
Clevermike Kaino is better 6 than whoever u use.  The only bok forward I would concede u have better is BDP.  Your in  fantasy world about the AB 5. You believe what u want to believe the AB record speaks for itself the AB forwards hold no fear for the boks. If your analysis about the AB  forwards was credible the boks would be winning day in and day out but they don't.
— END OF THREAD —

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