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FORUM / RUGBY /  Locks caused the scrum issues....an inconvenient fact

Locks caused the scrum issues....an inconvenient fact

Started by Mozart36 REPLIES318 VIEWS· 10 Jun 2014, 00:41
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Jun 2014, 00:41
#1
10 Jun 2014, 00:41#1

Having been stymied on all their pet theories the dumb three have concluded Victor and Bakkies were causing our scrum problems? However what they fail to mention is Flip Flop a massively strong fella was on from minute 50.. And this was the result.


18 Coenie Oosthuizen (On for Jannie du Plessis, 67 mins)
Went down too often in the scrums but showed his value carrying the ball over the gainline.
6/10
Hahaha....game, set and match.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Jun 2014, 00:49
#2
10 Jun 2014, 00:49#2
Well that idiot who wrote that needs to get his facts straight.......by starting with the culprit that was penalised at scrum time......Steenkamp.........and you are calling people dumb Moz when you cant even get the basics right......let me guess, the ref got it wrong.
Well any pack with a lightweight 37 year old lock in it is bound to struggle at scrum time dont you think......little obvious I'd say.

But more to the point - Coenie came on at minute 67........what exactly was the issue with the scrum prior to that......given you cant blame Coenie for the first 67 min......take your time over the answer Moz.......you have a strange perception of game set and match.......what game you playing?
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Jun 2014, 00:52
#3
10 Jun 2014, 00:52#3
For the record......scrum penalties - Steenkamp 2........Coenie 0, that's ZERO......game set and match as they say......and the game is rugby
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,295 posts
10 Jun 2014, 00:57
#4
10 Jun 2014, 00:57#4
so the poor scrumming is due to the locks not providing enough support, until Steemkamp enters the scene and then it is his fault.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Jun 2014, 01:05
#5
10 Jun 2014, 01:05#5
Haha old Dave can't get past his biases. He is still trying to sell the story Coenie was okay....he wasn't. Jannie was no better with Flip than he was with Bakkies. And then Coenie crashed in spite of having the man mountain behind him.

This whole argument is based on Matfields weight. There is no other point of support.  
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Jun 2014, 01:05
#6
10 Jun 2014, 01:05#6
No you dumb fuck.......Bakkies provides plenty of grunt......Matfield provides zero......Matfield is the weak link ........Steenkamp was on for all of 15 min and conceded 2 scrum penalties.......so to conclude that Coenie was the issue in the scrums smacks of pure ignorance......given he never conceded a single scrum penalty in the same time Steenkamp was on the field........so Matfield and Steenkamp were liabilities in the scrum.....get it, bright spark.
Twatbok, give it up man you are too stupid to compete here.......you keep making your name gat
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Jun 2014, 01:16
#7
10 Jun 2014, 01:16#7
So Bakkies provides plenty of grunt, is fast enough to score on the outside of backline movements....but is too old the play. Yep it's as clear as mud. 
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,295 posts
10 Jun 2014, 01:20
#8
10 Jun 2014, 01:20#8
I did not conclude that Coenie was the issue- the whole scrum was crap, even when the sub lock and props came on.  
i am commentating on how their is no way you know how hard bakkies pushes, or Flip pushes or matfield pushes. 
You have just done your usual- it is never your favourites, instead it is the players that you do not like that caused the issues- Matfield and steenkamp. 







SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Jun 2014, 01:24
#9
10 Jun 2014, 01:24#9
 No Moz, you will find that Coenie never crashed at all......the only guy that crashed while Coenie was on, was Steenkamp with his 2 scrum penalties.

But more to the point, what happened to the scrums in the first 67min......I'm waiting on that one.

Bakkies aged 34 will always provide plenty of grunt for about 15min.......geez just look at the man, he looks like an old hag......sadly most of his grunt is shown in trying to intimidate players.......that worked when he had the game to back it.......that has long gone.

Bakkies should not be smelling the Bok side, Matfield even less so - both are pathetic selections......the worst I have seen in years......along with the return of Fourie, Steenkamp, Pienaar and Morne.

This Bok side is going down in a big way this year.....watch this space
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Jun 2014, 01:47
#10
10 Jun 2014, 01:47#10
Well I certainly think playing both is too much of a good thing. And my analysis of Bools loose head penalties suggests they happen more often when Victor plays. So the scrum is worth watching. That said, both these guys played very well on Saturday.
HM has simply started with proven test players rather than unexceptional newbies. If Steenkamp and Matfield have lost it....he will move on. In the meantime what do we do? Start two rookie locks when it is so obvious Victor has lifted the Bools....Lewies, Lood and the rest need to play off the bench and get comfortable with the massive lift in standard over S15.
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
10 Jun 2014, 10:34
#11
10 Jun 2014, 10:34#11
 "Bakkies aged 34 will always provide plenty of grunt for about 15min.......geez just look at the man, he looks like an old hag."

Bakkies in 2011:



Bakkies in 2014...... 32 minutes into the game.....


BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
10 Jun 2014, 10:44
#12
10 Jun 2014, 10:44#12
How would the Bok scrum go if Marcell Coetzee was at lock. At 106 kg he is the same weight as victor. Given he is more compact it could improve matters. Poor Beast what has he done to deserve such a fate! Coenie is just not a strong tighthead. He needs to PROVE otherwise. Meyer should give Lood a chance. Great young 125kg goer. Really puts in the work.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
10 Jun 2014, 14:00
#13
10 Jun 2014, 14:00#13
 Mozart
Who says that Both and Matfield are the best locks available?   Maybe Mayer - who likes his pals - and you.  Problem is that the others have shown strength in all facets of play.  Botha vanishes after 15 minutes and Matfield far sooner.
I saw clearly an incident during the match on Saturday where the two props spoke seriously to Matfield and Botha - and there was no response from them.  Pieter de Villiers was also shown looking pissed off like it is unbelievable.  
It was around minute 25 and thereafter there was no improvement in the scrumming.  I do not think that with the present problems in mind Matfoeld and Botha would last into the RC.   They are just not up to standard to ensure a Tight 5 combination that would work properly and dominate the opposition.    
If Meyer did not paint himself into a corner by picking Matfield as interim captain - he would be on the chopping board first.
I asked a question elsewhere - which you ignored.   Most of the players picked by Meyer was in the Springbok team that failed badly in 2010 and 2011.   What makes you think that three years later they will become world beaters,  bearing in mind that most of them are near to 30 or older?
Players like Francois Steyn was poor in Super 15 and was basically invisible on Saturday - why should he b e selected at all if he cannot do the basic work of a center?       
    
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Jun 2014, 14:05
#14
10 Jun 2014, 14:05#14
Yeah Vlag, that photo confirms Bakkies looks out of gas - more to the point, its those live close ups that tell the story.....Bakkies looks all of 34 and shot  
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
10 Jun 2014, 14:17
#15
10 Jun 2014, 14:17#15
 Had I not told you that the one was from 2011 and the other from 2014, you would  not have known.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Jun 2014, 14:32
#16
10 Jun 2014, 14:32#16
To be honest, photo's tell me nothing really.....it was the close up on Bakkies that painted the true picture - he looks 44  
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
10 Jun 2014, 14:39
#17
10 Jun 2014, 14:39#17
 
Look at Willie jogging besides Bakkies going flat out ... pleading for the ball.

The pensioner's giving it hell for leather.

I guess some of us are happy with snail pace, huh?

I mean the aged can still compete ... right ??

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
10 Jun 2014, 15:03
#18
10 Jun 2014, 15:03#18
 Hahaha. You are fucking hilarious. Do you really believe what you are saying?
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Jun 2014, 16:12
#19
10 Jun 2014, 16:12#19

Here are some facts:

 

1) If Coenie was really solid at tighthead he would be picked on Saturday. Jannie badly needs a break and Coenie is superb in the tightloose. The fact is he is a weak scrummager....the number one point for a tighthead.

 

2) Flip made no difference to our scrumming....which proves:

 a) Bakkies was as effective as Flip...or

 b) Coenie was worse than Jannie

 

....take your pick.

 

 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
10 Jun 2014, 16:23
#20
10 Jun 2014, 16:23#20
 Mozart
Daydreaming again.  When Bakkies left Beast was much more solid with Flippe behind him.  When Matfield was on - both Du Plessis and Steenkamp was bad.    There is no choice here - both locks were  scrumming disasters.
It shows again that Meyer painted himself into a corner with his lock selection and he can pick any props and with those two behind them - they will inevitably fail.   Those are facts.
By the way - how the hell can Meyer pick a Toulouse bench player for the 23 match day squad?   Was it because the bench player was a previous Blue Bull coached by him? That type of thing makes him look like an absolute fool  in any event.     


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Jun 2014, 16:27
#21
10 Jun 2014, 16:27#21
Er scumbag,  Victor was behind the Beast. Care to change your story? 
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
10 Jun 2014, 16:32
#22
10 Jun 2014, 16:32#22

mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7116 RE: Locks caused the scrum issues....an inconvenient fact
June 10, 2014, 14:27:06 Er scumbag,  Victor was behind the Beast. Care to change your story?   
What are the chances?

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Jun 2014, 16:35
#23
10 Jun 2014, 16:35#23

This disgusting liar will just ignore the whole thing now. He built a whole case on Victor scrumming behind the tighthead....poor dumb plank. 

 

The good news is we can now talk on this string without his silly contributions.

CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
10 Jun 2014, 16:38
#24
10 Jun 2014, 16:38#24
 
I saw a cameraman jogging backwards down the side of the pitch, focusing his camera on Bakkies ...obviously wanting to get as best a frontal pic as he could.

He had to slow down every now and then cause he kept on running away from his target.

He's slower than a large prop.


 

 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Jun 2014, 16:49
#25
10 Jun 2014, 16:49#25
 Oh look it's genecut taking time away from his busy schedule to give us his unique hee haw humour.
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
10 Jun 2014, 17:05
#26
10 Jun 2014, 17:05#26
 
It's comical to see these two idiots supporting Meyer's Goats.

The one loves the fact that the Bulls have a grip on the Boks now in Meyer, Victor, Du Preez, Gurthro and Bakkies ... while the other enjoys that the aged are been given a shot ... funny enough, also Victor, Bakkies, Gurthro and Du Preez.

Oh, I nearly forgot Morne Steyn.

We were freight trained at scrum time and guess who was responsible ... these very same aged Bulls. Go figure.

Now they're each coming up with all kinds of horseshit to defend there respective causes .... the Bulls and the Aged.

A strange pair but so well suited .

A poef and his doffie

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahaaaaaa!!!




MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Jun 2014, 17:12
#27
10 Jun 2014, 17:12#27
So  the Bools were all over the front row....ummm let's see....the Beast, Bismarck and Jannie.  That's about as stupid as Bakkies scrumming behind the Beast.
Look Gene  you guys predicted we would lose....you have egg slathered all over your bald pate. 
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
10 Jun 2014, 17:23
#28
10 Jun 2014, 17:23#28
 
Try to keep up will ya, poefter?




MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Jun 2014, 17:49
#29
10 Jun 2014, 17:49#29
 Bakkies has a lot more hair than you Baldy...you call him a geriatric ....hahaha. A late middle aged failure.
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
10 Jun 2014, 18:20
#30
10 Jun 2014, 18:20#30
And still Ou CC keep on dancing around the one simple question. Oh wait, I forgot. Ou Maaikie explained it so nicely. The Beast was more solid when Bakkies, who was scrumming behind Jannie, was replaced by Flip vd Merwe.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Jun 2014, 19:13
#31
10 Jun 2014, 19:13#31
Moz you seem to think that Meyer is making the correct calls.......the fact that Coenie is not selected ahead of Jannie has stuff all to do with Coenie's credentials and everything to do with our ignorant coach who, lets face it has made some shocking calls this year.....the man has not even got 50% of his selection correct  
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Jun 2014, 19:48
#32
10 Jun 2014, 19:48#32
Believe me Dave if Meyer and Pieter de Villiers a very experienced "technical" international prop thought Coenie could survive....he would be in there in a flash. They don't. And they have tons of experience and data you are missing. Leave it to the experts old chap. 
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
10 Jun 2014, 21:19
#33
10 Jun 2014, 21:19#33
 The facts are very simple and very obvious.
One never really sees Beast in trouble at scrum time. Against the world 15 he struggled because he was supported by a 106 kg stringbean lock.Coenie has not come to the party at scrum time for the Cheetas. On Saturday he and Guthrow or struggled against Ferrerai and Cilliers - very average props!!! Guthro of course had pap victor behind him at lock. Coenie had no such excuse.
It is very sad that Coenie is not cutting it at tighthead as otherwise he is very good.
I hope the weak links are fully exposed against Wales. We need to quickly settle on real candidates for the next WC!!!


sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,295 posts
10 Jun 2014, 21:25
#34
10 Jun 2014, 21:25#34
Coenie has struggled with the transition to tighthead. Many experts in the game have stated this (i.e- retired Springbok tighthead props). 
In general play Coenie might be the best prop in the world, but if is an average scrummager he is not going to get much game time.

OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
10 Jun 2014, 21:25
#35
10 Jun 2014, 21:25#35
Tank Lanning on Coenie after the French test last year:

A final word on Coenie Oosthuizen at tighthead … The man did well, especially in that one power Bok scrum that splintered the French completely, and bloody good on him for that.

Not yet able to dominate on his own ball, or disrupt on opposition ball, but certainly able to do a job, and perhaps that is what you want from your backup tighthead, especially if he offers so much around the park – like Oosthuizen does.

His technique was simple, and relatively effective on the day – Stick to Bismarck like glue. Based on the premise that two people are stronger than one, it did mean that he went in on the angle on occasion, and will be blown for “Not offering a shoulder” to the loosehead should it become his primary scrumming method.

It leaves the loosehead with two options – either to follow the tighthead in and risk being penalised for scrumming in (should the ref not spot the tighthead doing it first), or splinter with your hooker and risk your pack being dominated like in the one big scrum the Boks got going.

Penalised for collapsing, and short armed twice for going early, together with the pitch playing it’s part as it forced both sides to scrum high, I am yet to be 100% convinced re Coenie being a tighthead, but I am certainly willing to call the jury together again.

He now needs to start at 3 for the Cheetahs during Super Rugby, and see how he goes without the likes of Eben Etzebeth and Bakkies Botha behind him. Question is, will Saturday’s 74 minutes have convinced Cheetahs coach Naka Drotske enough to risk it?


Tank's thoughts prior to the World XV Test


Jannie du Plessis has started every single Super Rugby game this year, yet here he is again, starting for the Boks in this exhibition game, together with the misfiring project that sees Coenie Oosthuizen as his backup at tighthead. Why not give the man a break and let Marcel van der Merwe, who was brilliant for the Bulls in a rare start against the Lions, have a run?

The same could be said for Beast Mtawarira, who is also massively overplayed. And with so much loosehead talent in the country, why are we calling up Gurthro Steenkamp from France as Beast’s backup? Why not give Trevor Nyakane or Morne Mellett a run with Beast on the bench?

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
10 Jun 2014, 21:38
#36
10 Jun 2014, 21:38#36
 Like to see Tank's view on the scrum after the match.Yes I agree and have said as much Sharkbok. The tighthead is the conerstone of the pack after all. 
Pieter de Villers if anybody should be able to correct any technical flaws in his scrumming. I have more faith in Pieter that Os who probably got by by brute strength. D e Villiers was a small prop who got by on technique. France do not field big packs but usually scrum above their weight. 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Jun 2014, 21:41
#37
10 Jun 2014, 21:41#37

 In the battle of the van der Merwes ....Schalk prevailed over Marcel, who was subbed at minute 53 for Wobbling Werner. Not a big vote of confidence. Marcel....like Coenie...was brilliant ball in hand, not in the scrums.

 

As for Coenie he did well in the French test. But clearly the Worlds had him figured out....and he has had another neck episode since then. This is not a long term answer.

 

All these "obvious" choices are not so obvious.

— END OF THREAD —

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