Loose Forwards Combination Wrong again- Poor Rucking Performance

 Hieneken Meyer was recorded as saying that most of the Bok internationals are refereed by Northern Hemishpere referees who allow the opposition to contest more on the ground, than the Southern Hemishpere counterpart referees.

What a poor performance by the loose forwards today.

It was like the performance in Medoza last year when the boks drew to Argentina. 

Other tests last year were also clumsy performances at the Ruck, before Vermuelen and Francois Louw for things to improve.

When is Meyer going to learn that we need to either pick a specialst fetcher, or at least have more forwards in our pack who are good at contesing the ball on the ground. 

We need a solid platform to get go forward ball to setup muli-phase play, and then suck in opposition tacklers before going wide for the gaps to start opening up,

The best players the boks have at contesting the ball on the ground are-

1. Francois Louw (specialist Fetcher)

2. Brussouw (not in the squad)

Others in no particular order

Bismaark (Hooker)

Coenie Ostuizen (prop)

Schalk (injured, cant play in any position in the backrow)

Vermuelen ( can play at 8 or 7)

Labaschagne (a 7 who has made more turnovers in SuperXV than many number 6s)

Deon Fourie (Not in the squad) ( not in the same form he was last year)

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When the opposition is dominating possesion, or just not allowing us to recycle our possesion quicly and cleanly,  we need to have more players in the match 23 who are capable of playing onto the ball, and not just carrying.

What good is just have strong cariers, if we can't recycle quickly to obtain quality possesion/front foot ball.

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Kolisi had a decent game today, but he is not very effective on the ground. He is more like a small number 7 playing at 6. 

I would have rather tried Labaschagne at number 6 or had Brussouw in the squad.

Under Northern Hemishpere laws Brussouw will be more effective than in the SuperXV. We need someone who can help us retain the ball, recycle quickly, slow down opposition ball and even winsome more  turnovers.

Coenie and Bismaark both won a turnover each shortly after entering the field.

I would have actually pulled off Cotzee and put Bismaark on the flank to keep Strauss on who was one of the better forwards

Cotzee has proved he is no openside flank.

The breakdown was shambolic, Pienaar looked terribale.

Although if Hougaard was playing it would have been even worse.

Not a nice platform for a scrumhalf to work off

A Loose forward combination must either contain a specialist fetcher or 3 allrounders (Playon to the ball and be a carrier). 

Spies has never won a turnover or helped retain possesion his whole career, so if he is on the pitch a specialist fetcher is required. 

 Sharkbok its difficult for meyer right now with Duane and Alberts out as well as louw for this match. In addiotion someone like Elstadt is also injured.

But a loose trio of Coetzee, Kolisi and Spies has no real clout. Louw and Arno improve things but you still need a Vermuelen type of forward. Kolisi maybe a better 7. Will he be outgunned when it comes to first tier rugby? He is only 101 kg. I dont think he is as skilled or complete a player as Lubbbers. But he did well today can can take pride in his debut.

I think the romance with beast has been long over though some are only now realising he is not up to it. Jannie had to play the whole game and somehow kept going. You want more dynamic props able to drive the ball up. Try Trevor and Coenie. Why give Trevor 3 minutes? 

Juandre covers the ground well but again in the tight loose he is not a force.

As Mallet said the problem in the forwards were the two props Juandre and Spies. Spies did vitually nothing in the second half. I hope Meyer looks at the stats. He said these guys were not cleaing out effectively. 

I am no longer a Pienaar fan - he is only a link these days. I like a scummie to pose a threat and take on the opposition. Kockott may even be an option. He was a feisty customer.

 Beeno 

Injuries are no excuse for Meyer. He needs to select a balanced team with the players he had available to create the right combinations- which clearly is not the case in the loose forwards.

Scotland were missing more players than South Africa to the Britsh Lions and also injuries. Aparrently 10 first choice staring players were missing

Agreed on Jannie and the Beast. Jannie has allways been average and the Beast is no longer a Beast, and more liken to Beauty (an ugly version of Beauty anyway). 

Agreed on Spies who is has his Bulls contract to thank for his playing.

Cotzee is not the same player he was last year either.

Coetzee was never the player he was last year.

Sharkbok

With Vermeulen and Botha both injured and Spies and Coetzee being sub-standard - we have a serious loosie problem.  If  Botha was available - which I do not think would be soon - I would have played him at 8 for the Springboks.

I do not understand how Meyer can pick players on reputation and those purely with Blue Bulls contracts.   Spies has a record of under-performance at both national and Super 15 level.   The other Meyer favourite amongst the loosies is Alberts.   The latter in 2011 developed an image of a strong ball carrier and a strong tackler.  However - if a person in fact study his stats for 2012 - he is reasonably good in that regard agaibst weaker opposition and useless against stronger teams.   Problem is his defence is also suspect - he made some hard tackles but his speed is too slow and he missed more tackles than is acceptable.  Ids he capable to compete for the Ball on the ground and the answer really is no - he is too slow and arrive too late for that.   He is on par with players like Van der Merwe speedwise and definitely slower than Etzebeth and Bismarck.   However, I doubt not that Meyer would select him at 7 for the test next week and his contribution would be near to zero.

Bearing in mind the injury to Botha and the totl ineffectiveness of Spies - if I was in Meyer's Position I would call up Philip van der Walt of the Cheetahs and field the following loosie combination:-

6   Louw

7   Labuschagne

8   Van der Walt

Labuschagne is a very good all round player useful in line-outs and making more turnovers in possession than any other SA loosie - and also a very good ball carrier, but for some reason or another Meyer apparently does not regard him as an option.   The reason probably is that Meyer would not veer much from the EOYT squad he selected last year.   In fact the only exceptions are Le Roux and Van Zyl (basically because his favoured players are all injured) and Serfontein.   Since Labuschagne was not in that squad he is not selectable for the Springbok team.

I do not put much beyond Meyer though - he has made some monstrous selection errors - so I think that he will call up Kankowski  to join the squad.  The latter is not good enough to make the Sharks team - but the fact that he was a Springbok in the past will count in his favour.   He is better than Spies - but so is every other half-decent 8 in SA.

My contention is that even though Meyer is aware of the problem - the players he select for the loosie position is never going to solve it.     

We won 94 percent of our rucks. You are confusing the ability to win the ruck with predictability. If the defense see what is coming every time they can pick and choose what rucks to compete in. We are using sledgehammers which knows only one thing. Stand off flat and bash.

 Spoony no their is no confusion on my part. Meyer for what its worth after I wrote this thread, has also stated that the rucking performance was poor and the main problem. Even when the boks are predictable it is effective because of the power of the ball carriers. When the boks fall apart it is because they cant at the very least use the strong ball carriers due to not being able to setup quick multiphase play

 South Africa sent a flat line of forward runners promoting themselves to receive the ball and a deep line of backs to get the ball behind the forwards. This made it too obvious which group was getting the ball, and allowed defenders to smash the forward runners or slide off on second-man plays to cut down backs or, at worst, end up pushing the outside backs to the sideline where the Bok wingers were always confronted with 2-3 efenders.

Get that idea of "power" out of your head. No matter how strong ball carrier you are you are never going to win a battle vs 2 guys. We should be seeking the earth only when there is no other option; releasing players from consistent “pod” play to support and run as ball carriers; passing in or before contact then supporting the man who receives the pass. 

But I see that is going to take a 100 years probably cause here we still believe in xxx weight and xxx size is much better than a lighter guy who run at the line but actually passes and offloads. Just look at a Rassie Erasmus. The defense never knew what he going to do next. He gets gang tackled he still gets a offload away and someone (usually Joost) was in space. 

Mike have you seen our schools rugby. Most teams are concerned about defensive structures and pod play. Trying to pass a hole rather than creating it. I can only think of Bishops who basically are comitted to a total different attitude no matter what. And they are always playing in a mud bath. 

At school level and craven week having a 100kg center is going to cause problems or having huge guys are going to to be a advantage but soon at higher levels where the courage goes up and the smaller blokes brings them

 Clumsy play at the rucks has been a hallmark for much of the Meyer era so far. 

Slow ball is the norm, as it fumbling at the base of rucks and the scrumhalf having to dig themselves to get the ball out.

Opposition teams must obviously be targetting the rucks against the boks

He needs to sort it out or it is going to be his undoing.