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FORUM / RUGBY /  Marcell Coetzee

Marcell Coetzee

Started by Beeno114 REPLIES647 VIEWS· 19 Sept 2012, 16:53
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BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
19 Sept 2012, 16:53
#1
19 Sept 2012, 16:53#1

Ex sport 24

Cape Town – Is Marcell Coetzee, one of the brighter young guns introduced by Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer this season, destined to suddenly become a “supersub”?

It would be cruel if that is the sort of role he inherits in the short- to medium-term, because it would be at least partly attributable to the commendable versatility he offers – a loose forward capable of operating seamlessly at any of No 8 and open-side and blindside flank is always going to be an asset in bench terms.

At the same time, Meyer will be acutely aware that the 21-year-old has been one of his most full-blooded and energetic forwards as a member of the starting XV in all but one of the Test matches in 2012 thus far.

The situation is complicated a little, however, by the fact that the Sharks player, in all that time, was also acclimatising to the hitherto fairly unfamiliar role of No 6, when most of his early first-class career for the Sharks has been predominantly in a blindsider capacity.

In a nutshell, Coetzee has looked as though he can tick most of the overall skills boxes required of an international loose forward -- with sound temperament into the bargain -- but is also perhaps not best suited to being the designated, primary fetcher.

When he was “demoted” to the bench for the first time by Meyer for the Castle Rugby Championship match against the All Blacks in Dunedin last Saturday, the coach rightly made it clear that Coetzee had played a lot of rugby and travelled more kilometres than most this season – clearly implying that there was a strong rotational element to his decision to field Francois Louw instead in the No 6 shirt.

Subsequently, of course, a pleasant predicament has been created: Louw, Willem Alberts and Duane Vermeulen dovetailed pretty effectively as the loose trio against the world champions, and as part of a Bok pack which broadly commanded an edge on the day despite the 21-11 loss. (PLease note moola and cohorts)

Meyer may well be reluctant, as a result, to tamper too much with his eight, especially as Bath-based Louw did a spirited job in slowing down the All Black game at the breakdown and doubles as a strong ball-carrier, whilst Vermeulen is starting to find his feet as a Test player at No 8 after his many months on the crocked list.

Coetzee’s “crime” as a substitute – he replaced Sharks colleague Alberts in the 62nd minute – was to provide the sought-after late impetus; he certainly threw himself into tackles with relish.

Meyer may well persuade himself that the same loose forward brew is the right way to go against Australia at Loftus next weekend, meaning Coetzee is curtailed to the bench once more.

At the same time, he is also probably the best “flair” player of the loose forward quartet who did duty for varying stints in Dunedin, and on the Highveld his pace and deft off-loading ability could come in extremely handy right from the outset. (Herein he makes an important point)

If Louw does earn a second start on the trot as open-sider, it would hardly be the daftest act in the world if Coetzee found a fresh starting berth at either No 7 or 8, would it? (No it is as you say a poser)

The national coach loves muscularity and a hard edge to all his “loosies”, and the 106kg Coetzee is hardly a shrinking violet in that respect.

Yet there’s probably a better-than-even chance that the status quo will prevail: Meyer is well-disposed toward the notable physicality served up by Alberts as blindside flank and may, again, seek a bruising hour out of him against the Wallabies before pulling off the big unit and taking advantage of Coetzee’s dynamism for 20 minutes or thereabouts. (OR perhaps pull Alberts earlier)

It is not a situation Coetzee would want (or even deserves?) at this juncture but at the same time most critics would concur that, with his best rugby years still well ahead of him, the Potchefstroom-born youngster is going to start plenty more matches for his country anyway ...

This next match 22 will be of huge interest.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
19 Sept 2012, 17:01
#2
19 Sept 2012, 17:01#2

This whole Coetzee thing is another example of the new broom syndrome. He is a very heady player for such a youngster. But what does he really bring to the party? Compared with say Skinstad, Kankowski or Spies.....he isn't much of an open field runner. Compared with Alberts or Vermeulen he can't power through traffic. He tackles well , but can't knock them back like Schalk. And honestly, he is a pooor fetcher.

 

So lots of nice skills, a few heady moments......but a lack of basic horsepower to make a difference against international power packs.

 

He will probably linger in or close to the team for a few years and then be replaced by one of the really super talents we produce every few years.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
19 Sept 2012, 17:13
#3
19 Sept 2012, 17:13#3

Another example of a pathetic Meyer selection, demoting one of our best forwards this year to the bench. Meyer has blind faith in certain players - Morne, Jean and Alberts spring to mind. Alberts had one good test against England and went awol thereafter.

If Meyer really wanted to include Louw who is hardly a true openside, then he should have moved Coetzee to 7

KI
KitchenerClub Pro612 posts
19 Sept 2012, 17:31
#4
19 Sept 2012, 17:31#4

Marcel Coetzee is better then the very average Flo as a no 6, no 7 or no 8.... or any other position for that matter and Meyer is 2 stupid 2 see that.

 

Remeber, Meyer is the idiot who thought JacPot was the answer at flank!

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
19 Sept 2012, 18:04
#5
19 Sept 2012, 18:04#5

At a coastal venue stick with the combo we have. On the highveldt Coetzee at 7 maybe a possibility.

Given the perfromance of the loose trio last Saturday it will be hard for Meyer to make a change and probably wisely so. Meyer needs to watch the situation carefully and use bench appropriately.

Jallopy Meyers big toe has forgotten more about rugby than you will ever know.

 

 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 Sept 2012, 18:11
#6
19 Sept 2012, 18:11#6

Saffex and others

I have no problem with Vermeulen at 8 - but a serious one with Alberts at 7.    Both Vermeulen and Alberts are not the speediest players around.    Any team can afford a slower loosie - not two.   Both has a similar style of play - but on Satuday Vermeulen was much better than Alberts in that role.   In the tight exchanges they were effective - but further out not good at all. 

I always had a high opinion of Louw - who never had a bad game as a Sprinbok.  On Saturday he and Vermeulen was actually the best performing forwards of the Springboks - it was Louw that passed the ball to Habana directly when he scored that try of his.   Alberts was less so.

The issue of Coetzee is to my mind clear - he is both faster than the others mentioned and was in the tests this year the best defender of all the Springbok forwards.   He is not at this stage a player that is most effective in driving the balls at the opposition - but always seems to get balls when defenders are virtually on top of him.   That does not allow for spectacular play.   He retains balls well and I have seen something in him that the others do not have - namely to off-load balls in tackle situations.

Against the Aussies I would be very disappointed if our loosies are not as follows:-

8    -     Vermeulen

7    -     Coetzee

6   -      Louw

Albert's best position is to m mind lock and not loosie.   Against a slow-moving team like England - he is effective - other teams he is not so.

 

 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 Sept 2012, 18:11
#7
19 Sept 2012, 18:11#7

Sorry - duplication

 

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,301 posts
19 Sept 2012, 18:48
#8
19 Sept 2012, 18:48#8

 He played excellant against the English but not to the same standard in the 4 nations. If Schalk was fit he would have to start. As for Brussouw I would probably want him starting at 6 this year given how poor the breakdowns have been. My loose forward combination would be

6. Brussouw

7. Schalk Burger

8. Vermuelen

I think this combination would make our breakdowns very effective. Alberts and Cotzee would both be on the bench as impact players. I think winning the battle of the breakdown is key for the boks- if we do this we can beat any team. Schalk and Vermuelen are also useful in the lineouts, strong ball carriers and excellant on defence. Just need to get our backline sorted with Goose and Lamb at 10 and 15 and we would be lethal

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 Sept 2012, 19:07
#9
19 Sept 2012, 19:07#9

Sharkbok

Players can only contribute to winning quickly and effectively balls in maul situations if they are speedy enough to get to the breakdown point.   I was vastly disappointed in Brussow thus far thie year - he slowed down considerably and on CC level he was very disappointing in the games thus far.   On Saturday the Cheetahs had 70% possession - but they still lost the game.   When Brussow handled the ball - there was no forward movement or they lost possession.

Burger has ball sense and despite the fact that he is not a speedster - he knows his way about the field and is normally fairly quick to get to breakdown points.    However, is he ever going to play international rugby again?  Defibnitely not this year.

Problem with our loosies is they are not fast enough to get to breakdown points.  When they get there it often happens that our tackled player is penalized for hanging on - or the ball comes back very slowly - losing all momentum in the game.   Trying to win opposition ball is largely unsuccessful - since our loosies arrive too late and any effort on their part is normally penalized.

The only exxeption on Saturday was Louw - who over 100 meters will probably beat Brussow by 40 meters.   In the test on Saturday that was the reason for Louw's very good showing. 

 

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,301 posts
19 Sept 2012, 19:45
#10
19 Sept 2012, 19:45#10

 @Mike- I must admit I do not get the see the Curry Cup at the moment, as I dont have Skye at the moment. Although from what you have said Brussouw has not got his form back and may never do. He was poor at the Worldcup. It seemed he was starting to get back into form in the Superxv but got injured against the Sharks once again. 

So I think the backrow should just remain the same as it was against the AllBlacks. 

6. Flow

7. Alberts

8. Vermuelen

- Cotzee on the bench to replace the worst performer of the 3 on the day. I expect that it will Alberts who may not be upto 80 minutes anyway. 

I do think Schalk will be back. If he could recover from a broken neck he should get over the knee injury hopefully. In that instance I would put him at 7. 

US
UsernamePro1,098 posts
19 Sept 2012, 22:14
#11
19 Sept 2012, 22:14#11

Brussow was the standout South African loose forward this year. Far better than Coetzee, where Marcell ranked high in tackles made, he also ranked highly for tackles missed! Interesting to note that Alberts was 4th in this years Super XV for tackles missed, so that adds to two of our loose forwards who were leaky on defence in the Super XV. Brussow on the other hand ranked highly throughout in all facets of play and was one of the most important players for the Cheetahs. To disregard his exceptional test record and high quality output in the Super XV because of the CC, a tournament of no relevance other than feeding youngsters through the system, is utter foolishness. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 Sept 2012, 22:25
#12
19 Sept 2012, 22:25#12

The Cat

It is alqays entertaining to see what you say on any issue and immediately take an opposite view.   First of all brussow awesome in Super 15 - when part of the season he was injured.   Because all the shouting and screaming about him out of the English tests - I watched him carefully in the three subsequent Super 15 games.   He even scored a try in one of those.   However, in the three games he gave away 5 convertable penalties - in other words he was a major impediment - especially in the tight game against the Stormers.

Awesome he definitely was not - anything but.   problem remains - if a player cannot perform in the CC and cannot compete with the so-called younher players mentioned by you - how in heaven's name can he p[erform on higher level?

I am particularly pleased with meyer about this one - he saw through all the hype - got scared off because of poor display in tests last year and an indifferent Super series season - and stayed away from Brussow.   He made an inspired choice of Louw - that paid off handsomely on Saturday and there is ABSOLUTELY NO CHANCE that he is going to change that in the Championship.

Why is it that you always fight for sub-par players?   Morne Steyn, Kirchner and now Brussow?  

US
UsernamePro1,098 posts
19 Sept 2012, 22:31
#13
19 Sept 2012, 22:31#13

"if a player cannot perform in the CC and cannot compete with the so-called younher players mentioned by you - how in heaven's name can he p[erform on higher level"

I would like you to explain that to me, as it has been happening. I wouldn't take your assessment for very much either as you have been woefully poor in assessing everything else. And if you call Brussow a sub-par player then you really are a fool's fool. Brussow out performed every other loose forward in the Super XV in a pack that was struggling for dominance. It's case closed here.  

PE
poi-ePro1,044 posts
19 Sept 2012, 22:52
#14
19 Sept 2012, 22:52#14

 Brussow is the poor mans Pocock, too little for test rugby, a fraction of talent of McCaw, has he even won IRB player of the year? Nope, Richie's ended Morne's career, maybe he'll do Heimlech a favour and end his, if he had the talent to make the Boks again.....long shot

 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 Sept 2012, 23:22
#15
19 Sept 2012, 23:22#15

The Cat

I would not even try to explain things to you since explaining would be fruitless - you do not understand things anyway or end up with preconvieved ideas in any event.   Just one little thing though - if by now you do not realize that there are distinctive levels of competttion in rugby - form the lowest to the highest is first of all club rugby, then the CC competition, then Super 15 level and ultimately international level -  a thing a grade 1 pupil could understand - you will never understand anything about rugby or for that matter nything else.

Players normally progress according to competence from one level to the next.   In other words - an exceptionally  good club player can most probably end up on CC level - an exceptionlly good player on CC level can progress to Super Series level - and an exceptionally goiod Super Seroies player can end up in the Springbok team.

Failure on any of the levels mentioned is automatic disqualification from any promotion to the next higher level,   Understand now?   Did I put it plainly enough?   Can you realise now why poor performances on CC level would disqualify a player from playing on higher level?   That is meant what i sauid about Brussow - capice?

Now - the case of Brussow - he was out of Super 15 through injury in - as far as I can rememeber - six Super 15 games.   His absence from the team did not affect their performance in anyway whatsoever     In the last three games - that I watched him specifically as a result of the comments on this site - he contributed significantly to the Cheetah losses.   Giving away 15 points in 3 games by any one player is inexcusable.and that is what Brussow has achieved.   Other than the try scored by him through strong - but slow - running he did very near to zero to compensate for the points he gave away fruitlessly.

The Springboks need him as a loosie like another hole in the head.   They need some faster loosies - not one of the slower players in the game.  

So dream on about this one as well.     

— END OF THREAD —

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