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FORUM / RUGBY /  Matfiekd Returns to play rugby - The farce of the year in SA Rugby

Matfiekd Returns to play rugby - The farce of the year in SA Rugby

Started by clevermike31 REPLIES546 VIEWS· 31 Jan 2014, 20:37
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
31 Jan 2014, 20:37
#1
31 Jan 2014, 20:37#1

It is official - Matfield is returning to play for the Bulls - and Meyer is over the moon about it.


But what does the public thinks about the issue - after all they ultimately are the funders of the game.  The following is the outcome of opinion survey on the issue:-


Awesome                         -     5%

Stupid                             -    72%

Rather stick with coaching -     9%

It will work if he is managed correctly - 14%


The 81% is correct - it is a bloody farce.    So what will happen as to the issueL   Nothing different from what happened in the case of Jacqye Fourie and Bakkies Botha after and during the EOYT.   Thee two produced below par performances - and Meyer praised them to high heaven.   It is only when we analyse the game and look at the stats that is it really clear that they were sub-par, but Meyer is so infatuated with the players he is acquainted with - he thinks we will all swallow it wholesale.


That kind of swallowing i s for the likes of Mozart and Sun Tzu - who fail to accept that the older the  players are - the weaker they perform.


I pity poor Serfontein and JJ.   Matfield real interest in rugby is to moonlight in the backline and disrupt backline play - so the two centers are buggered.         

AG
AgPleezDeddyClub Pro900 posts
31 Jan 2014, 20:59
#2
31 Jan 2014, 20:59#2
 Obviously I was a massive fan of Matfield at his best but him coming out of retirement has made absolutely no sense for The Bulls. I wasn't a fan of picking Botha for the EOYT (I was hopeful Fourie could show some form but unfortunately that didn't happen, solid defensively but nothing in attack) and I would hate to think a 36 year old Matfield would get picked for the springboks ahead of the young locks we have.
I guess we just have to wait and see how it plays out, hopefully the younger players progression aren't affected too badly.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
31 Jan 2014, 21:07
#3
31 Jan 2014, 21:07#3

APD - exactly - am with you in this case.


Just one thing =- I hope you joined the Test Rugby fantasy competition for the 6 Nations.  You are most welcome to join Superbru as well - to participate in result forecasting.   

AG
AgPleezDeddyClub Pro900 posts
31 Jan 2014, 21:11
#4
31 Jan 2014, 21:11#4
 I was going to sign up for it tonight Mike, and thanks! 
What's your prediction for the Six Nations? I think France will win it and I hope they beat the poms tomorrow
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
31 Jan 2014, 21:27
#5
31 Jan 2014, 21:27#5

 APD


My predictions on Superbru are as follows:-


Wales to win by 21 points

France to win by 12 points

Ireland to win by 16 points 


There are already nearly 33 000 participants on that site - so pleas join - it is easy and not taking time at all.

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,297 posts
31 Jan 2014, 22:28
#6
31 Jan 2014, 22:28#6
If Matfield had played against the All Blacks in Johannesburg this year we may well have won the match and the 4 nations.
I have never seen a Springbok line-out performance as poor as it was in that match.This also effected the rolling maul which was the worst it has ever been due to the poor lineout options. Everyone knew the ball was going to Eztebeth and were able to block the mauls driving up. Eztebeth and Matfield would have made a great lineout combination.
The kick offs were also the worst I have ever seen from a Springbok team in that match and also the other matches in 2013. Even if Matfield made no other contribution than lineouts and kickoffs he would be a million times better than the waist of space Juandre Kruger.
If South Africa has a backline with strong kickers like Frans Steyn at 15 and Johan Goosen at 10, Habana and JP on the wings - then the Boks traditional stronger lineout can dominate the territory game. This means we can win opposition ball and gain possesion even after kicking it away as long as it is a decent touch finder. We can keep it in the forwards before passing wide when space opens.
Matfield is past his best which was around 2009- 2010. However I would not be too quick to rule him out. If his lineout game is still as good as what it was, the Boks can allways win the territory game. He must however get out of the backline- even in his prime he was worse than useless in the backline.
A specialist number 5 has 3 core functions-1. Calling lineouts and taking most of the throws in the middle of the lineout.2. Taking kickoffs3. Scrumming. 
Even if Matfield makes little to no other contribution, it would be much better than useless Juandre Kruger. Also having him in the squad the younger players are sure to learn from the best lineout forward in the history of the game.


AG
AgPleezDeddyClub Pro900 posts
31 Jan 2014, 23:24
#7
31 Jan 2014, 23:24#7
 Sharkbok, don't get me wrong if Matfield comes back and he's showing decent form (better than other SA locks) he would deserve a place in springbok squads but what I'm worried about is Meyer picking him purely on his experience and not on what he has left to give. Personally, I'm not the biggest fan of having Bakkies still part of the Boks squads but if we're going to pick an experienced option then I'd choose Bakkies over Matfield as he's been playing for the past 2/3 years. 
But, I would love for Matfield to prove me wrong and make me eat humble pie as back in the day he was awesome. 
At the end of the day, if Heyneke does decide to pick him, I'll support it. 
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
01 Feb 2014, 01:08
#8
01 Feb 2014, 01:08#8
 Its pathetic that Matfield is returning
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
01 Feb 2014, 01:56
#9
01 Feb 2014, 01:56#9
 It deprives young talent........complete waste of time. Coaches that make these kinds of calls have conservatism written all over them........Bulls  
AG
AgPleezDeddyClub Pro900 posts
01 Feb 2014, 02:20
#10
01 Feb 2014, 02:20#10
Saffex, do you see him being a regular starter for the Bulls?
I feel sorry for the youngsters, it's showing that the coaches have no confidence in them even though they're probably good enough to handle themselves at this level
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
01 Feb 2014, 02:29
#11
01 Feb 2014, 02:29#11
Yes, I can see Ludeke starting with Matfield, which is sad given the locks the Bulls have......they have depth in Flip v/d Merwe , Paul Willemse, Jacques du Plessis, David Bulbring, Grant Hattingh and Baby Boks Dennis Visser and Ernst Herbst
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Feb 2014, 03:00
#12
01 Feb 2014, 03:00#12

 Look let me b e quite frank - I have no problem with players based entirely on age only.  In the unlikely event of the older player producing the goods - then by all means he can be and should be selected on MERIT - not reputation.  


However, when there is no real performance - like happened in the case of Bakkies Botha in the Scotland test  - only utterances of Meyer to make Bakkies looks good - I do have a serious problem with that.   Selection should only be based on experience if performance between players is on par.


Sharkbok wrote about the performance of Kruger in the Ellis Park test.   Let me be explicit - Meyer selected Kruger for that test despite serious reservations expressed even on this site.  During his whole career with the Bulls there was one thing which was constant - Kruger had no grunt and was an average player at best.   He should never have been anywhere near Springbok selection.


There were at that stage at least 4 better locks than Kruger who could have and should have been selected.   To now raise an argument to the effect that Matfield would have been better than Kruger is really not the issue - since so many other locks would have been better.   Kruger is a very low bar to set in evaluation - in fact it is no bar at all.  


Lets accept one fact Experience should only be the deciding factor if and when real performance (not falsely accredited performance) is on par.  If Matfield in fact performs on par with present competitors - then select him - but that is unlikely to even be remotely the case.


I can see something coming.   Matfield will not start in matches - he will be on the bench for the Bulls and not really exposed to anything of substance.  Even then I do not see him lasting longer than two moths - and he is likely to then try for a Juan Smith venture.  Claim he is going to stop playing and ducking out to France  knowing that that would improve his selection chances by Meyer without the need to prove anything through performance.                   

KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
01 Feb 2014, 09:14
#13
01 Feb 2014, 09:14#13
Don't get ne started on Matfield. The guy was pretty much a passenger since 2009. The was a rumour that he never trained the super rugby. Just used the matches to stay fit. If you want to pick somebody then try get beker back. To me he is the natural successor and should have been our first pick in 2011. 
Why waste time, you don't need him to play as he is already coaching with the bulls.
Picking Matfield won't solve the bok problems. Meyer got the selections completely wrong in the last couple of seasons. Only week teams made him look good. Give laaities a crack. We still have 2 seasons before the World Cup. Plenty of time. 
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
01 Feb 2014, 09:30
#14
01 Feb 2014, 09:30#14
 Matfiled is one of the worst locks ever to play international rugby. Anybody thinking one can play test rugby with a tight 4 is lacking in rugby acumen oaks. His backline play is also not up to scracth by any means.Have any of the stats gurus got anything of matfield's lineout steals per test? That would debunk al thsi rubbish about the huge value of his lineout skills.
Etzebeth and Steph du Toit along with Flip and a couple of others are our locks  - and a greater selection of locks no other country can boast of.
wee matfield (How much heavier than 102 kg is he at present - best weight is 106 to 108 kg as he himself said) has done enough damage to Bok rugby. The man I most pity is Bakkies Botha who had to carry the show pony all those years. His statement "Victor doesnt always play in the backline" deserves consideration by all loonies who vainly imagine matifled was a lock at all.
Ou maaaikie please there was nothing wrong with the performance of Jaque or Bakkies on the year end tour. The Boks were also clearly the best team on view and thus the best in the world. 
We have the opportunity to build a power pack with pace that will destroy the wee abs and ensure world rugby domination. Now we want to throw that away and bring in this hugely overhyped show pony backliner player . The mind boggles.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Feb 2014, 09:51
#15
01 Feb 2014, 09:51#15

 Beeno


Fourie was half-baked - everyone saw some good defence and zero attacking ability in him - probably because of deficient speed.   Bakkies stats proved that he did nothing during the Scotland test - he missed tackle ratio being 60% - worse than Jannie's - and that he was only slightly better in that during the French test.   No house on fire - and no reason to go into euphoria on that one.  Bakkoes was good 4 years ago - he is no good for test purposes at present.  

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
01 Feb 2014, 10:42
#16
01 Feb 2014, 10:42#16
 Nothing wrong at all with jaque's speed as that one chase down the wing clearly showed. he is abig back and hence like Jean is deceptively quick. Bakkies did fine. Fact is we have yoiunger locks we can use. But dont tell me bakkies didnt play well. The guys wanting to make the world Cup side need to get back to SA and play hard Super 15 games against other SA sides. Hahahhahaha you get my point kiwis!Bekkers career was ruined by matfield. B ekker was 5 times the player.Meyer please dont make a blunder by picking Victor. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Feb 2014, 11:08
#17
01 Feb 2014, 11:08#17

Beeno


Bakkies stats for the Scotland stats was as follows:-



Botha

0/0

0

0/3/6

2

0

0

1

0

4/3

1/2

0

0/0


He "carried"  the ball 6 times making a total gain in territory of 2 meters - in other words he went down the moment he got the ball.   He attempted 7 tackles missing three of those.   He took 2 line out balls against a very weak Scottish lock combination.     For the rest the stats are basically made up of Zeroes.   That alone shows Bakkies did not do well enough to be considered as an acceptable lock against top teams - Scotland is NOT a top team.


The French test Bakkies did slightly better stat-wise - his ball carries was ineffective - but at least he only missed 1 of his 5 attempted tackles and he took 4 line outs.  Slight improvement - but still nowhere near good enough.


As to Fourie - that run along the tryline was a delusion.   Fourie was going forward and at "speed"  and the opposition wing had to turn around and start his chase.   He beat Fourie by nearly three meters when he got the ball.   Fourie IS SLOW and his attacking play was non-existing.     

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
01 Feb 2014, 11:59
#18
01 Feb 2014, 11:59#18
Crap Beenkop, Fourie was useless and Bakkies looked all of 34.......both pathetic selections by Meyer
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Feb 2014, 14:05
#19
01 Feb 2014, 14:05#19

Saffex


Meyer is raving about Matfield - but he must have noted the fact that the public is not impressed by Matfield's return - so he is now adding that Matfield will have to earn his place in the Springbok team by performance.   However, we have been through that one before - Meyer selected Steenkamp, Bakkies and Fourie without regard to performance and invented good play by them after the games they played in so as to justify their selection.   Hope he does not invent so-called good pe rformances - so as to justify his selection of Mattfield.     

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
01 Feb 2014, 14:21
#20
01 Feb 2014, 14:21#20
Reading the book on all the Bok coaches, it appears Meyer is a very sensitive guy and did not want the Bok job as it was first offered to Smal.........he is very sensitive to the negative thrown his way and said he took loads of flak for not dropping Morne and his love for Bulls players.......Matfield is just another one to add to the list.

Meyer wont stay on as Bok coach after 2016........he hates the way the negative gets thrown at his kids, because today all that negative appears in the social media.......there is no escaping it
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
01 Feb 2014, 19:05
#21
01 Feb 2014, 19:05#21
Well at least NZ posters will be happy the Mattie is back, lol  Come on SA supporters, you have to support your team now guys. I am sure you all agree
But in all seriousness, I can't believe they will select him if he doesn't deserve it. He may end up being part of the blend of old and new players in an effort to make sure the culture of the team is a winning one, etc. IMO If he does deprive a young player of a spot it would only be for real short-term & part of a transition plan. In other words there is not need to panic YET.
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
01 Feb 2014, 19:06
#22
01 Feb 2014, 19:06#22
Duplicate & not worth reading twice

AJ
Arthur JohnPro1,748 posts
01 Feb 2014, 19:41
#23
01 Feb 2014, 19:41#23

Saffex,

         I agree that Victor is over the hill and should not be selected ahead of the young guns  for the Bulls.

 

         I never did think that he was the Springboks  "lock" gift from God but many supporters did.

 

         He was a better backline player than a lock as per Bakkies remark which I agree with. 

AJ
Arthur JohnPro1,748 posts
01 Feb 2014, 19:43
#24
01 Feb 2014, 19:43#24

Cloudy pleased to see that you are adding class to your posting by inserting a picture of a South African lass.

 

Cheers.  

OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
02 Feb 2014, 20:59
#25
02 Feb 2014, 20:59#25
Didn't see the game. This was only opinion I could find in media reports:
ESPN Scrum:
"Victor Matfield made an immediate impact when he took to the field as a replacement as his Bulls suffered a 26-19 loss to the Stormers in a thrilling Super Rugby trial match on Saturday.

Matfield come on with 30 minutes remaining to the delight of the crowd, replacing Grant Hatting. He started with a bang, stopping a Stormers runner dead in his tracks and looking at ease in the lineouts, where he took his own ball comfortably and even stole another as his team was in trouble inside their own 22."




SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
02 Feb 2014, 21:42
#26
02 Feb 2014, 21:42#26
Matfield was one of the best locks to ever play the game........but its a complete joke that he has returned aged 36.......it pisses me off that the Bulls and Meyer think its a good thing
HA
hakwaPro4,146 posts
04 Feb 2014, 12:41
#27
04 Feb 2014, 12:41#27
 Beeno, "The guys wanting to make the world Cup side need to get back to SA and play hard Super 15 games against other SA sides. Hahahhahaha you get my point kiwis!" I think you got us at Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha 
ST
Sun-TzuClub Pro713 posts
04 Feb 2014, 16:10
#28
04 Feb 2014, 16:10#28
 "It deprives young talent........complete waste of time. Coaches that make these kinds of calls have conservatism written all over them........Bulls"

Actually, I'd say the young talent just isn't good enough. Meyer has been struggling with locks throughout his tenure and not many are delivering. I think the youngsters will in time become useful, just as Flip has become a test quality lock over a few seasons.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
04 Feb 2014, 16:38
#29
04 Feb 2014, 16:38#29

 The proof of the pudding lies in the eating.   Matfiield was a good line out player - who otherwise moonlighted in the backline. 


How good will his performances be un Super 15?  That remains to be seen - I think he would not last long - but lest wait and see whether he turned out as useless as Bakkies was in his last two tests.


       

ST
Sun-TzuClub Pro713 posts
04 Feb 2014, 19:03
#30
04 Feb 2014, 19:03#30
 Bakkies was very solid Michael. And would you not mention Matfield's defensive prowess? The re's no balance to anything you say.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
05 Feb 2014, 00:17
#31
05 Feb 2014, 00:17#31
 Bullshit Sun.......he has only tried Etzebeth.......and given Steph du Toit a sniff......so to say the young locks are not good enough is complete rubbish.......Meyer has failed to select the correct locks......Juandre Kruger was a physical flop and Franco v/d Merwe was a joke.

Lood de Jager is another youngster Meyer should have selected......Meyer has been poor in his lock selections. Bakkies was a poor choice, Matfield will be even worse
FO
ForeverArizonaClub Pro580 posts
06 Feb 2014, 00:41
#32
06 Feb 2014, 00:41#32
 30 min on the park...Matfield looked sharp.We could be in for something special.As for age critcism Brian O'Driscoll is 35 and still looks like he is full of running.I dont support the idea of aged vs young.Young is always better.But lets us see.There might be something special here.If PSD,Etzebeth and who ever really are better then this bloke then they will have to prove it or put up with the fact that they still need some development.I am Glad for Matfield.At 36 to play super rugby takes guts and a lot of dicipline.None of the poster here can write that on their CV.I am 31 this year,still run a 1.5 ml in 9min 54 sec and can do 20km with 35 lb  on my back easily in under three hours.Good luck Matfield.If it doesnt work out old boy you will know you gave it your all.
— END OF THREAD —

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