CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Jun 2014, 22:49#2
Beeno
Mozart and the Bulls supporters are in league here. Albeit for different reasons. Mozart regards the 2007 team as the model and will support any players from that team to be in the squad - irrespective of present performance,
The loyal Blue Bulls supporters support anybody who ever has pulled a Blue Bulls jersey over their head - again irrespective of performance.
Matfield's [performance is in fact limited to line outs. For the rest he is a weak ball carrier and goes down straight when tackled. It would take three players to tackle De Jager and Etzebeth and they will still go forward before they go down - with Matfield it is easy meat.
Matfield is easily dealt with in driving mauls - he is chucked out to the side and then join the mauls again from the back. No real force applied by him. Mozart and co talk endlessly about his tackles - but those are not good hard tackles - but very average.
I noticed that compared to his tackle count in the Welsh test - that Matfield called line out balls to go to De Jager and not to him and that his tackle count was poor on yesterday. It seemed as if he ran out of steam and could not keep up with the game.
I agree - he is not physically strong enough to be in the team in future and it is time for him to go - he just weakens the Tight 5 by his presence.
JWJust_win
Captain18,570 posts
JWJust_winCaptain18,570 posts
29 Jun 2014, 23:01#3
Beeno: Matfield wins line outs & his age & maturity is seen as helpful, that's the explanation we all get for his selection. Personally I think this wee chap ===>knows the real answer but the only word he keeps repeating is "despicable" & that seems to be your opinion also. Coincidence?
We will see i f Matfield is around when the other locks are back from injury. I can't believe Matfield will be a starter in the RWC. He would never last through the rounds.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 Jun 2014, 23:10#4
Yep by 2019 Victor may be slipping. But 2015? Walk in the park.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Jun 2014, 23:17#5
Mozart
Sure he walks in the park - but aside from a few line outs - he does near to zero. You still has not answered a question I asked previously.
The question is as follows:-
You always talk aout physicality of backline players and support there indliusion in the team.. How come physicality means nothing in the case of Matfield weighing in at 107 kgs - while the average weight of locks nowadays is 117 kgs? Why is it necessary for a bac kline player to be physically imposing and not for a Lock?
BEBeeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BEBeeno1Captain40,032 posts
29 Jun 2014, 23:41#6
Matfiled should be confined to walking in the park.
JW () thanks for giving hope in this dark hour of the matfiled.
FOForeverArizona
Club Pro580 posts
FOForeverArizonaClub Pro580 posts
29 Jun 2014, 23:44#7
Good on Matfield to make a comeback...now lets hope its not to long before he retires for GOOD!!!
BEBeeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BEBeeno1Captain40,032 posts
29 Jun 2014, 23:50#8
Yes no more messing about, send the show pony home NOW.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 Jun 2014, 23:50#9
Matfield is massively strong in the upper body. I mean think about it for a moment. How likely is it a player is going to be regarded as the top lock in the world for 12 years, if he has no grunt. Matfield plucked the Pom centre off our line with one arm in the RWC final. Last week Roberts, arguably the worlds strongest centre piles into Matfield with a head of steam...he is stood up and stripped. The collision thing is all based on the belief Victor is too light....but he is freakishly strong.
I'm always amazed at how bias distorts perception.
BEBeeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BEBeeno1Captain40,032 posts
30 Jun 2014, 00:39#10
Hahahhahahaha I have see wee victor knocked backwards when tackling a scrummie. He is freakishly pap as one would expect from a106 kg stringbean. He simply cannot compete with genuine locks. Good in lineouts and kickoffs but that's it. A disaster for SA and always has been.Only the groupies have any regard for him. Best lock in wolrd Bwahahahahhaha ludicrous. Worst lock ever to play international rugby. A con artist of the highest order.
I recall the sports writers conned by victor referring to him as big victor. Man he is 3 kg heavier than brussouw and he is playing lock!!!!!!!!!!!!!! When he stopped palying his weight droped to 102 kg!!! Pleeeeease!
He is a serious liability and one can only hope he is sent packing.Give me the 125kg Loodt who is faster, great in the lineouts and packs some serious clout in the tight phases. Loodt is so miles ahead of wee victor it isnt funny.
Moz you are simply stirring the pot as you love to do - I cannot believe you would think matfiled a great lock. It just cant be true. Even JW () realises matfiled cant cut it
FOForeverArizona
Club Pro580 posts
FOForeverArizonaClub Pro580 posts
30 Jun 2014, 00:39#11
Matfield is a fucking piece of shit at 37.You are just to thick to realise it you stupid cunt.
BEBeeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BEBeeno1Captain40,032 posts
30 Jun 2014, 00:52#12
FA up your game please folk are entittled to be wrong!
JWJust_win
Captain18,570 posts
JWJust_winCaptain18,570 posts
30 Jun 2014, 00:53#13
Beeno: in order to maintain some degree o f mental balance I suggest you get used to the idea that Matfield will be around this year & in 2015.
Apparently even this guy ====> knows that, lol
It will all get down to who hasn't been ruled out because of injuries, there are plenty of good locks in SA.
BEBeeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BEBeeno1Captain40,032 posts
30 Jun 2014, 00:56#14
Thanks JW () yes you do know that but its real daffy duck stuff!..
JWJust_win
Captain18,570 posts
JWJust_winCaptain18,570 posts
30 Jun 2014, 01:01#15
Beeno: your nervous tick is acting up again, please take your meds.
You keep copy pasting this rather handsome duck a clear indication of your deteriorating mental condition. I fear weee Matfield has been too much for you to deal with.
PS if Matfield does take a walk in the park please ask him to feed the ducks. Your mate "daffy" would appreciate it I have been told.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Jun 2014, 03:22#16
I dunno Arizona. If Picasso can still be painting from his grave as you imply, surely Matfield can still be playing at 37. And wash out your mouth sonny boy, nobody is impressed by your foul language.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Jun 2014, 04:18#17
Mozart
I have never seen any incident in all his years playing rugby any evidence of Matrfield being massively strong in his upper body. He never was a strong ball carrier in traffic. His strong point always was in line out takes - where his light weight made it easier for forwards to assist him in jumping.
In a way massive was the type of lock you find in Sam Whitelock - quite speedy for a lock - but never a strong factor in Tight 5 play. However, ten years ago - when Matfield was at his prime - locks in general was not as heavy as they are now.
There is no way that the present Matfield is as good as he used to be. You bluff yourself by claiming he is. and that is a fact. You look at the line outs and a few catches of kick ins and then say he is 0 but you just close your eyes to everything else and pretends it did not happen. Look again at his all-round contributions and why in both the latest two games he gave away penalties that were converted. Both showed lack of physicality as a major factor.
Sorry - but reputation does not automatically translate to performance and that is the case here as well.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Jun 2014, 05:20#18
English center Matthew Tait had a few great runs, one of which saw Victor Matfield making a try saving tackle just meters short. The ball was quickly recycled though and spun out wide to Mark Cueto who dived over the line under the close attention of big Danie Roussouw for what looked like a try.
In this RWC winning tackle he ripped Tait off the line with one arm. Check it out. Matfield is certainly the best lock I've seen.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Jun 2014, 05:54#19
Lets put the emphasis on WAS not is insofar as the best lock issue is concerned. And Tait is a smallish guy weighing 90 kgs. If he could not rip off a small guy like that - he is not strong enough to play rugby at lock. However, that one incident - when Matfield was at his prime - is not the alpha and omega of the situation at present. He cannot deal with the forwards he is meeting at present and they just pushed him aside - fact not fiction.
By the way that Tait incident in the 2007 WV final happened because Francois Steyn made a flop in tackling Tait in the first instance - that was one of four tackles he missed that day - so is he the sound player you give him out to be as well?
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Jun 2014, 08:28#20
He ripped Tait off the line with his right arm...about akin to the Beast tripressing a lock on a kickoff. I never thought Victor could come back after so long....the man is amazing.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Jun 2014, 10:11#21
Keep on misleading yourself - fact is Matfield is NOT amazing in present performances.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Jun 2014, 16:13#23
You wouldn't ask anything of Victor Dave.....he would be towering nine inches above you. You would be saying..."yes M r Matfield and no Mr. Matfield"
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Jun 2014, 16:20#24
Mozaq t
I would rather face Matfield than either Lood or Etzebeth - they are much stronger physically than Matfield. So will you say "yes Mr Etzebeth/De Jager and no Mr. Etzebeth/De Jager"? That especially after you ran down Etzebeth during his iniitial games at test elvel abd De Jager evcer since 2013?
30 Jun 2014, 17:08#25
No offense but Estebeth is not the best lock in the world, considering his current status, he ain't best anything. On current form Retilluck is the world's best lock, you heard it here first .
KMKa Mate
Club Pro246 posts
30 Jun 2014, 17:34#26
Elspeth is not even the best Yarpie lock let alone best in the world. That Lood Dejager bloke looks a lot more promising than Elspeth ever did and neither one is in the same league as Sam Whitelock and Brodie Retallick.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Jun 2014, 17:36#27
Aw you just think Retallik is pretty.
30 Jun 2014, 17:41#28
Yeah Sam Whitelock and Brodie Retilluck have proven over the past two seasons, they are the worlds best locks. Retilluck and Whitelock > Every Lock in the world.
KMKa Mate
Club Pro246 posts
30 Jun 2014, 18:04#29
Yeah and Tuipolotu is prob in 3rd place!
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Jun 2014, 18:16#30
Retallick and Whitelock has proven nothing of the kind - they are two really weak locks in tight 5 play and Reatallick in particular is weak in line outs. The best in the world? Never - only NZ supporters would say that.
I would find it difficult to place thenm in any SA Super 16 team - they are too easily beaten.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Jun 2014, 19:00#33
Well JW, given Retallic's fearsome visage which has spawned his well known comparison to Jaws.....a potentially more lethal Louis Suarez....who could blame Eben? But no, he is just a bit faster than your wing cum fullback.
MDMonkey D Luffy
Pro6,277 posts
MDMonkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
30 Jun 2014, 20:32#34
i wouldnt trade jaws or whitelock for any lock in the world.
lady elizabeth is one of the most physical locks in the world, but hes thick as brick shit house who can easily ge manipulated cos of his weak mind, nathan sharpe proved that and then some.
BTW how many games has lady elizabeth played this year???
might have to cut down on the physicality if he cant handle the jandal.
@mozter,
i remember lady elizabeth getting burnt alive when he tried to chase down keirean read, unlike ebans run though, read scored from his run.
by ur logic that makes read the fastest rugby player in the world, o_O
FYI read wouild liek to send lady elizabeth his thanks, for making that try look sooooo easy,
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Jun 2014, 20:38#35
Sushi you are a living example that fish doesn't promote brain power. Etzebeth astutely realized while he was closing on the flailing Read, he wasn't going to get there in time, so he went for the tap. Smart.
Contrast that with Ben Smith who just receded in the rear view mirror.
sharkbok
Captain23,295 posts
sharkbokCaptain23,295 posts
30 Jun 2014, 20:50#36
Whitelock was good 2 seasons ago but he has been average at best for sometime now. His lineout work and mobility are his strenghts, but Matfield is a better player than Whitelock.
Retalick is terrible in the line outs. Year after the year the Chiefs have the worst lineout in the tournament. If it was not for their counter attacking ability they would not even make the the play offs ever. Ezebeth and Lood are better, and we also have lots of other players waiting to step up.
Retalick had his best season last year, but this season he has just been ok- albeit better that Twitlock.
Neither of them are proper enforcers that can dominate the collisions.
JWJust_win
Captain18,570 posts
JWJust_winCaptain18,570 posts
01 Jul 2014, 09:40#37
On reflection I am not sure the Boks even value the traditional lock role any more. How else can you explain picking Matfield as a "lock".
01 Jul 2014, 10:10#38
Lol did I hurt some butthurt SA bloggers? Sorry but anyone with eyes could say see Retilluck in the test series proved its Retilluck and 2nd is Daylight when it comes to worlds best locks. I know you SA love being biast but their is a world outside your own backyard, yeah I know I was shocked too
01 Jul 2014, 10:10#39
@Justinwin Yeah based on that logic, NZ should bring back Kamo lol.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Jul 2014, 11:17#40
You know what - Retallick is a lock of the type Matfield is - nothing strong in particular. He actuilly moved to the middle of the line out to improve his line out record - but he still is a loosie type of lock with no real claims to fame as a lock - he is weak in carrying balls in traffic and he is of no real value in tight 5 plays.
He has never figured in any test against SA - the loosies and backline beat us in all tests - not the Tight 5. As per normal Retallick and Whitelock will be invisible in the tests against SA - same as Retallick was in Super 15 - where he really shines with an occasional run in space and nothing else.
When he comes up against stronger locks he is shown up for what he really is. Provided Meyer does not make a fool of himself and play Matfield against the AB's you will soon see what happens to Retallick.
