FIXTURESNo upcoming fixtures — check back soon.
FORUM / RUGBY /  Matfield, Vermeulen and Strauss

Matfield, Vermeulen and Strauss

Started by Mozart18 REPLIES371 VIEWS· 07 Oct 2014, 02:56
SHAREXFACEBOOKWHATSAPPTELEGRAMREDDITLINKEDIN
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
07 Oct 2014, 02:56
#1
07 Oct 2014, 02:56#1

All three Make the consensus 365/planet rugby  joint Team of the Tournament. Along with the Smiths, Savea and Retallik  from NZ. And Ayerza and Sanchez from Planet Argentina.



What an incredible journey back from Victor after 2 years away from the game.....away from any version of he game. Has that ever been done before in rugby? Hell this magnificent player possibly made the most tackles in the tournament per minute played.


Vermeulen in a way is also a surprise, because of the strong consensus about Reid before the RC. But Vermeulen was the king of heart in the RC. His display in the last two tests was awe inspiring.


Strauss also was cast as a Bismarck understudy. But honestly he was better than the prior consensus best hooker on the planet. Like Vermeulen he gives 100 per cent. Here is our post RWC captain.

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,294 posts
07 Oct 2014, 03:30
#2
07 Oct 2014, 03:30#2
The Matfield lineout is the best in the world. Last year the All Blacks lineout killed the bok lineout, and the kick offs were a mess as well.
New Zealand were under massive pressure in the 1st half, and Hansen said the main reason for their poor performance was the quality of ball from the set piece. Their was so few scrums in the 1st half, so the lineouts and kick offs were the sources of set-piece possession. Given that New Zealand did not score much in the 1st half, they did not get many kickoffs either.Turnovers were pretty even, so the mismatch in the lineouts was a critical factor in the Boks getting ahead.
The lineout possesion the All Blacks got in the 1st half was terrible. Most of the time it was over the top of their scrumhalf and the Boks were able to apply massive pressure. This is what happens with Matfield run lineouts, the opposition either lose lots of throws or they get scrappy possesion under pressure. It was the same in the SuperXV. 
The kicksoffs have also become really solid. Matfield takes it when ever he can, and it is usually clean takes. He has a supporting prop running after him while he covers allot of distance to take the lineouts in the air.These have allowed rolling mauls to start from the kick offs, not just the lineouts. This is usually just from inside the Bok half where pressure can lead to a bok penalty for poles or for the corner. 
In the 2nd half the lineouts did not go as well. Some of the throws did not seem great, and New Zealand were more competitive on the bok throw. This is when the dominance shifted over to the All Blacks. Their were a few more scrums in the 2nd half but it was pretty equal for both teams.
When Matfield is running a lineout, the opposition will try take quick lineouts even when their is not space to attack from- just to avoid having to go up against him. 
The high tackle count, and linking play are just bonuses upon his dominance of lineouts and kickoffs, as well as being a proven solid scrummager. I dont think that I have ever seen Matfield be substituted in a critical match, so he clearly has the stamina to last the 80 minutes as vindicated with his high tackle count.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
07 Oct 2014, 04:06
#3
07 Oct 2014, 04:06#3
Very nice piece SB. Your points about the kick offs  were particularly insightful.its hard to say enough about Matfields contribution. Our forward play improved massively after the Bargie tests, I think that's mostly due to Matfield.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 Oct 2014, 04:24
#4
07 Oct 2014, 04:24#4
 Sure - it is hard to say enough about Matfields's contribution.   It is clear that he is absolutely useless as a Tight 5 player - his ball carries is near to zero as he is physically - deficient.   That comes through with his giving away of penalties as well.  The quality of his tackles is average to poor.  His contribution to scrumming is poor - since he lacks grunt - our scrumming this year was worse than ever before.
Play around with line-out takes - butplease forget about crucial line-out misses - like th one at circa minute 70 where we were in defense and Matfield buggered up and lost the line out leading ultimately to a try being scored by the All Blacks.   Lets also forget that Matfield very early deliberately touched down a ball which gave away a penalty putting the Springboks under pressure.
Sure it is hard to describe Matfield's contribution if you only fawn over the positives and forget and cut out the negatives.   There are plenty of the latter as well.   This case of a lock that plays like a loosie and contributes near to zero to the Tight  5 will obviously draw attention.   The work in the engine room is ignored because that is not as obvious as the tackles made.  What a load of crap.           
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
07 Oct 2014, 06:10
#5
07 Oct 2014, 06:10#5
Our loose head side was particularly strong in all the scrums.....so much for the Matfield provides no power theory. I know you are regarded as a great rugby brain in your house OOm. But I would say its highly unlikely the Telegraph, the five writers at Rugby 365 and the Planet Rugby panel all got it wrong when they picked Matfield. The man lifted our forward effort through his skills and smarts. As Bok fans if we can't enjoy his success, there is something seriously wrong with us.
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,294 posts
07 Oct 2014, 06:44
#6
07 Oct 2014, 06:44#6
Contribute nothing to the tight 5? A number 5 locks core responsibilities are lineouts, kick offs and scrums. Typically the number 5 lock is more athletic and mobile for jumping in lineouts and kickoffs. 
Take a look at Eztebeth. He is one of the more physical locks in world rugby, but his contribution has been far less than Matfield during this tournament. In terms of Ball carries Eztebeth is much bigger but in reality has not faired any better. Matfield has got through much more work. 
The worst scrums this year have been without Matfield. Argentina destroyed the boks scrum, although somehow I doubt the locks were responsible for the poor scrums on the day. 
As to saying Matfield is weak at scrumming. That would be difficult to determine unless you were playing prop for the Boks and noticed that any other lock was stronger than Matfield. That is just believing what you want to believe, basically self-bullshiting.
Matfield is about the same size as both the New Zealand locks last week. Matfield is 110kg, and Thrush is 114kg and Sam Whitelock is 112kg. Neither of these locks are stronger than Matfield, or at least have not done anything in the match over the weekend to suggest this is the case. 
Willem Alberts when on form is more physical than any player in the New Zealand pack. But then suddenly he is meant to play like a New Zealand fetching loose forward. 


sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,294 posts
07 Oct 2014, 06:45
#7
07 Oct 2014, 06:45#7
We can all have our opinions, but it is most likely that if the top 10 coaches in the world were to assess the impact of Matfield in most of the games he plays- they would rate him highly. 
He often makes player or the week, player of the tournament etc, by people that make a living providing opinions of rugby
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
07 Oct 2014, 06:53
#8
07 Oct 2014, 06:53#8

MVP in the RWC final and our foolish fans still dont get what he has contributed over the years. They believe the next man in the bar who tells them with great certainty that Matfield weakens the Bok pack.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 Oct 2014, 06:54
#9
07 Oct 2014, 06:54#9
 Mozart
I can remember last year when Alberts made one 10 meter ball cary and missed half his attampted tackles and was made MOM.   The match assessments are often based on one incident in a match - and the descriptions given to support the point allocation is often false and misleadiing.   
There was in most matches bugger-ups by Matfield and bad ones at that - but because he made tackles - he is the flavour of the month.   Hs line out work was at times poor - but he is praised for line-out takes.   
H was scrumming behind Beast - who was strong enough - Jannoie was a disgrace in scrumming - but that is ignored.   
The problem was that I always look at both the postives and negatives in players - you fawn about players you like and demonize other players you dislike.   That is what is so bad about your constant harping.   
In any event - Matfield is a Meyer favourite and even when he flops like in two line-outs late in the games against the All Blacks - it will be forgiven.    You will ignore the flops or try to cover it up with absolute crap - blaming every other player bar Matfield.   In the long run Matfield is going to cost us dearly - and that is a fact.   He is the follow-up of Morne Steyn and other flops you have supported.  The list is long - Steenkamp and Baklkies Botha to start with.          
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
07 Oct 2014, 07:05
#10
07 Oct 2014, 07:05#10

The thing I don't get OOM is why you are trying to convince me if I am such a lost cause. Save yourself the time and save me the trouble of having to smack you down. It gets tedious.

 

 

But after all the arguments that various props were struggling because Matfield was scrumming behind them, when he actually was scrumming on the other side. It seems a bit contradictory to now say the Beast was strong enough. 

 

 

And if you think back to the first Argentina test the Beast was pretty much destroyed with Lood behind him. Seems the evidence points to much better support from Matfield.

3K
3ku1Pro2,580 posts
07 Oct 2014, 07:33
#11
07 Oct 2014, 07:33#11
 You SA bloggers really need to consider other point of views. Its not neccessarily what SA are doing but what other teams are doing. Theirs many variables. Nz forwards are physical lol . End of day it was one game. SA were the better team. But it doesent change or precede the past three years of NZ dominance over SA, i know you all wish so so so so so so much it did . Now next step is SA working on closing out games, and being more clinical just like Oz game in Oz, they nearly lost when Abs nearly snatched a win from the jaws of defeat. Matfeild may make alot of tackles. But you have to look at the efficiency rate of those tackles, they often are not effective and players bump him off. Late in the game he ran the ball up got hit hard like all SA players were in that final ten. He offers alot but he shouldent be starting, neither should Jannie, Bakkies etc. 
1. Tendai Mettarwia 2. Adrian Strauss 3. Marcel Van Der Merwe 4. Eben Estebeth 5. Paul Willimse 6. Marcel Coetzee 7. Jacques Du Pleesi 8. Duane Vermulen 9. Francois Houggard 10. Handre Pollard 11. JP Peterson 12. Jan Serfointain 13. Damian De Allende 14. Cornal Hendricks 15. Willie Le Roux
16. Frans Malhebe 17. Trevor Nyakene 18. Bismark Du Pleesi 19. Lood De Jager 20. Warren Whitely 21. Cobus Reinach 22. Patrick Lambie 23. Sibusio Sithole
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
07 Oct 2014, 08:36
#12
07 Oct 2014, 08:36#12
 Those same idiots had Louw in the side which about sums up useless Matfield s selection. Matfield ahead of Whitelock and Thomas is insulting to any rugby follower 
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
07 Oct 2014, 08:56
#13
07 Oct 2014, 08:56#13
Our scrum would be better with a real lock. matfiled is the papest lock ever to play international rugby and an unmitigated disaster. matfiled is a good lineout forwad but does nothing that another good lineout forward does. Given how his home is in the backline obviously he will make a number of tackles practically all of which will see him going backwards. Best victor retires NOW. 
Meyer has got the half back combo and strategy wrong since starting with the Boks. He now needs to retire the Show pony and put Jannie on the bench. start with schalk not the medicocre quota player ou pa etc.
Man its frustrating how slowly he moves. He was helped by injuries else we would still have PIE naar kicking all our ball away. Did a player rebellion change the tactical approach I wonder. It has been so mindless that they can't have been happy. Hougaard has been shackled for years. 
One would have though we had no backs. Thanks to the Cheetahs and Lions who with their limited squads kept the flame alive. Thanks for the injuries (sympathy to the players) that led to Hougaard and Pollard being paired and the abandoning - perhaps only for now - of the mindless kicking we have seen for years.
Away with matfiled and bakkies for starters. 
Rugby 365 is doing us NO favours by selecting matfiled and conbfusing the confused even more.
I noted that our pack is not up to scratch. Man culprits Jannie outside the scrum, wee victor 106 kg and ou pa.  Play a substandar pack like this against england and we will be in troubleVictor you have conned the masses for too long do the honourable thing now and retire.


BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
07 Oct 2014, 09:01
#14
07 Oct 2014, 09:01#14
The oak selecting at rugby 365 is clueless. Hougard and Pollard  should also have been picked.That was a great display of halfback play.Bissie also was tremendous. Burger was robbed of an opportunity by being a sub to oupa!!! What utter quota madness was that selection!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey 3 IQ who wrote that last post of yours. I detected some intelligence!
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
07 Oct 2014, 15:07
#15
07 Oct 2014, 15:07#15
There isn't one guy selecting at 365 HasBeen there is a  panel of 5.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
07 Oct 2014, 16:51
#16
07 Oct 2014, 16:51#16
Imagine being ignorant enough to select Matfield over Whitelock.......ouch   
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 Oct 2014, 17:29
#17
07 Oct 2014, 17:29#17
 Mozart
I had it wrong - Whitelock was the one that took that line out ball where he outjumped poor Matfield (circa minute 70) and that led to a try for the AB's,   In fact we lost 3 line outs on own through - two to Whitelock and one to Luatua.   The two Whitelock took was both from Matfield - he was oppositte Matfield in the line outs all the time.   
Matfield took only five line outs on the day.   He is known for calling the line outs to go to other players when he faces a stronger player.   That is why Oupa had to take three, Vermeulen 3 and Etsebeth  1,   There was 15 line out calls to be made - he called 7 t o go to him and lost 2 of those.   
The moral of the story is he flopped in the line-outs departement on Saturday.   He also lost ball possession once and gave away a penalty.  When carrying a ball he did zip.   All of that means that the negatves to my mind outweighs the positives - since his tackle are basically average to weak.   
Sorry - I am not convinced he is of enough positive help to the team to be selected.   
OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
07 Oct 2014, 22:23
#18
07 Oct 2014, 22:23#18
Everyone has conveniently forgotten how bad our forward play and set pieces were in the first two Argie tests. It was embarrassing, we were dominated.
Two changes made - Strauss and Matfield for Bismarck and Lood - and those aspects went from being weaknesses to strengths.
Strauss a far superior thrower in the lineout, better with ball in hand and our scrum seems to do better when he is in there - a better hook and more stable. Matfield a lineout and kickoff specialist with underrated distribution skills and rarely is turned over.






SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
08 Oct 2014, 00:29
#19
08 Oct 2014, 00:29#19
 Oi matey give me a bloody break you expect us to believe wee Matfield improved our set pieces.
Next you will be telling me that included our scrums....bwhaaahaaaaa
— END OF THREAD —

More from Rugby

More news