Brycy
Same weight and size as Etzebeth and Du Toit - but he has to run off to play league. No strength and no real power (he still must carry baby fat like Etzebeth did - at that stage Etzebeth weighed 140 kgs). However, he could be much like the useless Retallick is in line out play. Big - but no real strength. Just look at Etzebeth's and Du Toit's forearms and legs compared to those of Retallick - the latter has no muscles to speak of - so no real power.
not so clever mike... Etzebeth is 6ft 8 now ...Nelson is 17 and still got some growing left so i'd say he'll be towering over those little yarpies you mentioned...
...and players don't go running off to league unless they can handle the hits - they come running back to rugby as it's a softer sport...
....sounds like you're talking from experience about players that are big and useless as your teams are full of them...
Kiwis will always be fitter as we have a better work ethic and players have occupations where they work physically...wheras all the yarpies i've seen in NZ are fat and lazy managerial types that sit on their dates all day and act like they're God...lol
Just-Win
I do not share Beeno's view of the Ellis Park test. I think there are various elements in that test that needs proper attention and my own impression is that poor defence and poor decision making cost the Springboks loss of the game - more than anything else.
I really think that the following remarks are appropriate:-
* The Springboks tight five was better than the AB's hence the 60% ball possession by the Springboks. This aspect was hampered by the poor line out performances by Kruger in particular.
* The AB's back row was vastly superior to the one of the Springboks - both in defence and attack.
* On the whole the Springboks backline on attack was better than the All Blacks - surprisingly so. In defence the AB backline was better than the Springboks.
The above is my opinion on the issue - and it is indicative of the following that needs to be addressed by the Springboks:-
* Replacement of Kruger and Jannie du Plessis - the two weak links in the tight 5. I saw what Du Toit did WP in the CC final and he was awesome -- I rate him as being better than Etzebeth in that game. This guy is special - and I do not see anybody really coming through or being in the AB lock situation that would be effective against those two. Malherbe will be a vast improvement on Du Plessis and he will be in the mix in the next RC. Things not looking good for the AB's in the tight 5 situation.
* Despite Meyer's conservative and headstrong attitude - something will have o be done insofar as the back row selection is concerned. I rate both Botha and Labuschagne as better loosie options and they will make a dent in the AB back row superiority. I am not saying they will be better than the AB back row - I am saying that they will become more competitive than they were at Ellis Park.
* Morne Steyn was the real weak link in the Springbok backline at Ellis Park - and he will be gone by next year - I am sure of that one. Morne is not a thinking flyhalf - never was - and not really attack-orientated. His replacement would make a huge difference and both Lambie and Goosen are likely to be in the run at flyhalf. Lambie was pure magic in the CC final and Goosen showed spark in the latest game he came on from the bench. Both are better options than Morne Steyn. Another replacement in the backline will be Kirchner and I think the player I think is modelled on Ben Smith - namely SP Marais is the most likely candidate for that position. He has the same style of play as Smith and also had a top performance in the CC Final
* The defence of the Springboks at Ellis Park was not up to standard - and I think the defence coaches and experts in SA will work hard on that one to get it right.
Looking at the AB squad I cannot at present see much scope for improvement on the part of the AB's - there is a huge improvement if Dan Carter can play - but not much else in evidence. I am a huge supporter of Cane and Luatua and also like Piutau - but whether they will represent an improvement in the team as a whole remains questionable.
All in all - I think there is a wider s cope for improvement by the Springboks with better replacement options - than there are for the AB's and next years CR will be very interesting with the outcome balanced on a knife edge. I think that the Springboks is likely to get the upper hand though, since they can improve the team more than I believe the AB's can.
Sorry - duplication
Clevermike I respect your comments but I've seen analysis on here from year to year where the AB's are criticized as not having room for growth and the Boks do and that the NEXT year will be a different story. What you fail to comprehend is that the AB's operate in a dynamic not a static system, coaches and selectors are always looking ahead to ensure growth and advancement which is proven by the AB's having a higher winning percentage over all nations over 100+ years of rugby. The bok loss in Ellis Park wasn't just due to Bok mistakes but the AB's being the better team, even when the Boks had a numerical advantage the AB's scored, that itself is a telling factor. Also % of possession is not significant especially as the AB's can turn 40% into winning, it's what you do not what you have that counts.
Beeno your Frik Du Preez myth is so cute....dream that up all on your own...like the Dunedin victory?????
Shezza did not slate Etzebeth, my beef is with the constant bagging of NZ lock forwards playing in a winning team by posters who function on opinion not fact.
Polyboy
I think there are a few factors which make I hard to see actual improvement in either performance or election changes insofar as the AB's are concerned. I think they have in positions other than props and hookers got top class performers in all positions.
I must be frank in the latter positions the AB's are not strong enough and in Super 15 I have seen only very limited capacity available. The present squad does not improve matters and unless a miracle player turns up next year in Super 15 - I think that the AB's options are limited to the present squad, with nothing much to go beyond that.
In virtually all other positions - they have younger players coming through who are not better than the existing players. I can see some problems at center through where there is very little coming through. Hansen is trying - but I think he hs limited options in that position.
From what I have seen in Super 15 this year - as well as in the tests - I think that the situation is more or less static in New Zealand Rugby.
Meyer made some critical selection errors last year and some of those bad leftovers are still around. I was myself surprised at the improvement in play some new players brought to the fore this year and I think that there are real classys player coming through in most positions. The problem areas I highlighted previously and I think he lot can be achieved by some selection changes an sorting out of the defence problems.
My name Is not Beeno - I criticized the selection of players last year and the performances were not up to standard. This year Meyer made some minor adjustments and the effect was already improvement in performances. However, I still criticized some of his selections severely this year and those positions cost us dearly in the test at Ellis Park. I hope he makes further changes next year - if he does I am confident that the Springboks will reach top playing capacity next year - something not achieved as yet.
Clevermike you can believe the AB's are in a static pattern if you like history and results proves otherwise. NZ rugby has a smaller playing pool but produce a large talent pool in fact it has been reported that one thing NZ has in several positions is depth, 1st five for example. You are right you are not Beeno, meant the critisising comment reference for other posters.
Interestingly while researching the Meads/Du Preez Beeno thing, came across a reference by Colin Meads who reckoned a SA called Martin Peltzer was a hard man who Meads said "didn't muck around" Never heard of him....anybody able to enlighten?
Polyboy
Frankly I cannot really remember him. In the Colin Meads days the SA lock combination was Tiny Naude and Frik du Preez. At that time longish tours were in place and Meade may have come across Peltzer in games like the Junior Springboks, provincial teams or joint teams.
I can vaguely remember the name and have a feeling Peltzer was playing for WP or the then Transvaal at the time - most likely WP on CC level. However, Meads was always fond of SA and might have met him on other levels as well and retained fond memories of the guy.
Maybe Mozart can remember more of this guy than I can. So he may respond more positively.
Meads said Peltzer had one eye and funnily he said that even though he had played against the guy in a few tests and provincial games he still wasn't sure which eye he was blind in! If Meads says the guy is hard that is RESPECT. Don't know about the DuPreez/Meads dust up couldn't find anything on it, but doubt Meads would lay down. Read a story in a French test a French player kicked Meads in the head causing a wound needing 18 or so stitches on the sideline. Meads was so pissed he went back into the match and clocked who he thought it was, when the French forward asked him later why Meads had hit him, Meads pointed to his head wound, the French forward then pointed to the actual culprit...he had clocked the wrong guy. So even if Du Preez had punched Meads I seriously doubt a guy who had sideline stiches with no anaesthetic and played a test with a broken arm would all of a sudden become meek and not retaliate or seek retribution.
Polyboy
I looked at the list of Springboks from the earliest days and cannot find the name of Peltzer anywhere on that list. Funny story about the bind one eye though.
