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FORUM / RUGBY /  Mehrtens: Time to ditch South Africa?

Mehrtens: Time to ditch South Africa?

Started by Just_win62 REPLIES888 VIEWS· 15 Apr 2014, 09:37
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JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
15 Apr 2014, 09:37
#1
15 Apr 2014, 09:37#1

OPINION: As Super Rugby nears its 20th year, I wonder if it's time to shake things up and maybe take a step back from South Africa.

I got up in the early hours of the morning at the weekend and watched my old Crusaders team battle the Cheetahs in Bloemfontein – but I'm sure I was in the minority.

I can't help thinking we might have lost a little interest in playing South African teams, and that ultimately the future of this competition might be more localised round time zones.

The provincial championship still has a pretty strong following, and if you're looking at what Australia and New Zealand needs, maybe it's that parochialism, that tribalism which is very important.

The logistics of involving South Africa are problematic – the travel and time difference – and maybe it would be better for all concerned just to play within our time zone and include teams from the Pacific Islands and Japan.

You could look at extending the number of New Zealand teams and move away from the regional concept, and back to provincial lines. That's the logical progression.

Maybe there could still be post-season involvement with South Africa, but their natural alignment is more with the UK and Europe, in the same time zone.

Any re-alignment, though, would need to be led by the IRB. If there's to be any form of consensus or consistency with a global international window, it has to come from them.

The New Zealand union supports continued involvement with South Africa but I wonder if money drives that. Where it's going to end up in 20 years' time is having competitions within time zones, and the sooner we get to that point the better for the development of the game.

New Zealand needs to align with a couple of big economies. It can't be the UK or France, so we have to look at helping grow the game in Australia. It's a biggish economy and there's a lot of money to be tapped into if it's done well.

Japan would be the other natural alignment that could help with the finances.

You might have 20 teams in our time-zone – eight or so from New Zealand, maybe six in Australia and the rest from the islands and Japan.

Australia has a lot of potential for growth, especially with broadcasting revenue, and New Zealand needs to recognise this. At the moment rugby is the poor cousin of the winter codes but that could easily change.

I'd also like to see more full-scale tours. Lions tours are runaway successes and rugby needs to tap into the demand for these sort of events.

Again the IRB would need to lead the way, and maybe tours could alternate each year with the Rugby Championship. That would mean every four years a country could host a major tour, whether it's by the Springboks, Wallabies, All Blacks or Lions.

The upshot would be New Zealand aligning closely with Australia and Japan, yet retaining links with South Africa and the UK through the touring structure and test matches.

Granted, greater minds than mine might need to hammer out the detail, but that's the way I see the game heading over the next couple of decades.

On a more immediate note, what a couple of cracking contests we have in store this week in Super Rugby with the Hurricanes hosting the Blues and the Crusaders visiting the Chiefs.

The Blues will have benefited from their week off. Sometimes it can be counter-productive if you've got good momentum, but with the Blues on a bit of a rollercoaster ride, the chance to reset and take stock would have been valuable.

Both teams need more consistency and need to manage the down times in games better. The Hurricanes have been starting well but once through that initial ferocity, they can go off the boil a little.

When you make a mistake you need to tighten up and not make another. The French call it a "cascade of errors", and the Canes and Blues have both been guilty of that at times this season.

It's not often we see the Crusaders go in as underdogs, but this week in Hamilton on the back of that big trip back from Africa they go in with nothing to lose.

To me that makes them a dangerous beast. This is the Crusaders' chance to make a real statement and they've got everything to play for.

The Chiefs certainly aren't invincible. They're confident but they haven't found that consistency in their game yet.

The key for the Crusaders will be how they manage their week. If they get that part of the formula right – less is best after the big flight home – then they will fancy their chances of an upset.

- © Fairfax NZ News

JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
15 Apr 2014, 09:47
#2
15 Apr 2014, 09:47#2
Mehrtens doesn't like losing sleep to watch SA teams so let's not play them any more, lol
Would be interesting to have a set-up where you play teams in your time zone and have a championship series where the best few from each time zone are in playoffs. Less games between SA & NZ but better quality. 
There are too any games in S15 now so something has to change. It is a war of attrition & team with the best luck and best bench have a big chance to win it all. Playing so many games is not good for the players either. 
Then you throw in the travel schedule & the team that lucks out & gets the easiest travel schedule has an advantage.
Yup, something has to change.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
15 Apr 2014, 14:55
#3
15 Apr 2014, 14:55#3

The conference set up is crap. Playing local sides home and away is crap. The sides should only play eachother once.

 

 

Merthens is a prick, the opportunity for rugby players to travel should be embraced as traditional tours have long disappeared.

 

 

The Super 15 without SA will be boring and would die a slow death  

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Apr 2014, 15:30
#4
15 Apr 2014, 15:30#4
 And to think this dim oxygen thief was borne in Durban.  That poor city has a lot to account for one day - how are they going to account for this one.
I mean to say  in Merthens case the staff made a terrible mistake.  They threw out the Baby and kept the after-birth.
FO
ForeverArizonaClub Pro580 posts
15 Apr 2014, 15:47
#5
15 Apr 2014, 15:47#5
 Let me be frank...I don't give a fuck about Nzl.For all purposes intended that little nation can sink deep in to the Pacific ocean...like Atlantis...if ever.And Merthens can go fuck his mother,who gives a fuck what he has to say???
NU
nukefreekiwiClub Pro441 posts
15 Apr 2014, 16:05
#6
15 Apr 2014, 16:05#6
 NZ will manage just nicely if they entered into a tournament with the Aussies, the Pacific Islands and Japan. SA bring nothing more to the table than Australia. Both OZ and SA have 2 RWCs, 3 Super titles and 3 TNs plus the Aussies have been far more competitive than the Boks since readmission. It just makes sense for NZ to evolve and allow SA to join a revamped NH competition. Im not sure if the French and Poms will be as accommodating to SARUs constant demands and entitlements but its worth a go aye lads. 
 NZ can have proper annual tours like they used to have back in the good old days. The ABs could tour the NH for 2 out of every 4 years. 1 tour to SA every 4 years and 1 RWC. It will probably be more lucrative for NZ to tour the NH more regularly instead of competing in the stale and predictable RC. 
I think SA only have themselves to blame for the waning interest in Super Rugby. The talent has been diluted with too many teams and the introduction of more teams next year will only make matters worse. Familiarity breeds contempt (in addition to consistent p wnage) and SAs over exposure to NZ rugby is the source of considerable animosity amongst the SA'n fanboys. I say its time to move on. 
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
15 Apr 2014, 16:18
#7
15 Apr 2014, 16:18#7
Nuke and let me guess you are thick enough to conclude that the Pacific Island and Japan would add value to the comp? Are you that stupid?  
SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
15 Apr 2014, 16:21
#8
15 Apr 2014, 16:21#8
I've never read such a hypocritical and flat out wrong comment as I have just read. Nukefreekiwi, you don't know what your talking about.
NU
nukefreekiwiClub Pro441 posts
15 Apr 2014, 16:23
#9
15 Apr 2014, 16:23#9
Huh? where did I ever say that they would add value? 
NU
nukefreekiwiClub Pro441 posts
15 Apr 2014, 16:25
#10
15 Apr 2014, 16:25#10
 please tell me whats so wrong and/or hypocritical about my comments?  Are you suggesting that SA have won more competitions than Oz? Are you implying that SA have won more games against the ABs since readmission? 
NU
nukefreekiwiClub Pro441 posts
15 Apr 2014, 16:36
#11
15 Apr 2014, 16:36#11
 Oz are a much more competitive team than SA and NZs geographic location makes a sporting alliance with the Aussies, PI's and Japan a sensible option. Fanboys are constantly complaining about the ABs poaching PI players. Here is NZs chance to pay it forward and help grow the game in the Islands by subsidising a few professional PI teams. We have no allegiance to SA. Why must we cower and acquiesce to SARUs every pathetic whim. I say fokkem all.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
15 Apr 2014, 16:49
#12
15 Apr 2014, 16:49#12

If South Africa joins Europe there will be far more money available for the European game. It will become the centre for the game and the players who participate up north will grow. As a result, just as in soccer, national teams that participate in Europe will improve relative to those that don't....just as we have seen in soccer.

 

I assume there is intelligent life in NZ that recognizes this.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
15 Apr 2014, 17:01
#13
15 Apr 2014, 17:01#13
I'b be happy with the SA sides joining Europe for the simple reason I would get to watch our boys live......bring it on......stuff the Kiwi's and Aussies!!!  
NU
nukefreekiwiClub Pro441 posts
15 Apr 2014, 17:02
#14
15 Apr 2014, 17:02#14
Pffft, how much money d o you think SA will bring to the table if they move up North? You really are a pompous twat. 
Well, we're in agreement then Saffex. How soon can we make it happen?
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Apr 2014, 17:06
#15
15 Apr 2014, 17:06#15
 And SA provide 70% of the Supper 15 income - who will pay your players without that income - Nuke?   Why do you think Sanzar dance the puppet way e very time SA demands something dolt?
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
15 Apr 2014, 17:15
#16
15 Apr 2014, 17:15#16

The sooner the better and with it will be the end of Kiwi rugby with many more Kiwi's moving up North to play in the best comp in the game where financial rewards will be 10 times that earned back home.

 

 

You lot really are stupid but don't let us hold you back.......imagine watching the great Japan in action.....what a bloody laugh  

NU
nukefreekiwiClub Pro441 posts
15 Apr 2014, 17:16
#17
15 Apr 2014, 17:16#17
The ABs and NZ rugby are marketable commodities. How much of that 70% pie will SARU retain if there aren't regular matches against NZ to entertain the viewers and swell the coffers dolt.  If SA n rugby were soooo lucrative, why not just persevere with the currie cup and keep it all? 
NU
nukefreekiwiClub Pro441 posts
15 Apr 2014, 17:18
#18
15 Apr 2014, 17:18#18
 LOL, look how precious you chops get when a keewee dares to suggest a competition without the saf whingers. Its hilarious!
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
15 Apr 2014, 17:19
#19
15 Apr 2014, 17:19#19

Um......taking SA out of the equation and bringing in Japan is hardly going to raise the marketability of NZ now is it?

 

Who would want to go watch that load of SHIT?  

NU
nukefreekiwiClub Pro441 posts
15 Apr 2014, 17:22
#20
15 Apr 2014, 17:22#20
 300 million people in Japan. The 2019 RWC is in Japan. Better hope people in Japan wanna watch rugby because the IRB are banking on it. 

FO
ForeverArizonaClub Pro580 posts
15 Apr 2014, 18:00
#21
15 Apr 2014, 18:00#21
  Pukedupkiwi...go fuck yourself.
KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
15 Apr 2014, 18:20
#22
15 Apr 2014, 18:20#22
 I'm not sure how this time zone thing is going to work. You just need to look at the make up of the teams at present.
NZ teams have more islandanders than locals, so where are the pacific islanders going to find players.
Australia have also started to poach pacific island players. Just look at the reds and Waratahs.
Then there is the point on Japan. The teams up there are made up of has been players that decided to go play for a nice retirement package, not to mention that they can only play 4 foreigners at a time. I don't think the Japs will offer much of competition, considering that their national team concede 50 point easily every time they play a test match. 
Yeah, I can see how it will work for the kiwis, they get to win all the time. I would love to the see the kiwis do a 4 week tour of SA and see if they can win all 4 games. 
OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
15 Apr 2014, 18:39
#23
15 Apr 2014, 18:39#23
I agree, thought it should have happened this way but the opportunity to include the European teams has passed now that they seem to be getting along again. Having all the games in prime time for all markets would have meant massive TV contracts for the unions involved - especially the SA/Europe conference which would help SARU retain top players . There would have been more than enough teams in each conference to create a two layer division for play-ins after each season which keeps things competitive and interesting.

It would have been a refreshing change, would still have the RC to bash each other in the SH

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
15 Apr 2014, 19:23
#24
15 Apr 2014, 19:23#24
Its not about the numbers in Japan, its about how crap they are at rugby  
AJ
Arthur JohnPro1,748 posts
15 Apr 2014, 19:52
#25
15 Apr 2014, 19:52#25
 If the 60/40 law is introduced as expected next year the stands will see a bigger drop in spectators and revenue.Once the supporters move away the TV networks and commerce support will follow and funds will drop to support the game.All pro sport is about money. If you want folks to support sport you have to ensure that the best are selected irrespective of colour etc.All the games I have watched on TV (S15) have only one or two teams that have full stands for their games.....why.Is it because their is to much rugby, or weak teams or both!Now to get back to the Mehrtens view.....it will spell disaster for both the Aussie and NZ game.Without players from the islands they will be much weaker and will not the dominant force they are at present.I for one would love to see RSA teams playing in Europe as it is a short hop from Canada to Europe to support the teams and also to soak up the culture and flavour of France etc.So remember the grass is always greener on the other side.Roll on and make the change....I for one will be their in support.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
15 Apr 2014, 20:03
#26
15 Apr 2014, 20:03#26
Dumb Kiwi Nuke....it's not a question of us bringing money....its already there. If you doubt this  count how many European players are in NZ vs NZ players in Europe. With the credibilty the Boks would bring to the whole tournament, more money would pour in. Japan....hahaha.
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,295 posts
15 Apr 2014, 20:05
#27
15 Apr 2014, 20:05#27
That is valid points Oimatey. 
England, France and South Africa make up nearly all the revenue in world rugby. Combing the 3 into single timezone tournament would push viewership through the roof for this tournament. (Assuming that French Teams and English teams are happy to travel all the way to South Africa).
Also like Moz has stated this would probably create a football like scenario where all the best players would be playing in this tournament. It would be a euro/Saffa time zone tournament and certainly become the premier tournament in world rugby drawing in all the Sponsers. European Club Football is where the money is at.
We could even have the likes of Richie Mccaw and Carter on the bench for the Sharks. Other top New Zealand players could end up playing in Japan for decent money, or the NPC or (for the pacific Islands- and earning 1 dollar per game match fee).

NU
nukefreekiwiClub Pro441 posts
15 Apr 2014, 20:06
#28
15 Apr 2014, 20:06#28
The ABs played a game against the Japanese last year and it didn't seem to have any detrimental effect on their ability to win games. Playing Australian teams regularly will more than make up for any skill deficit NZ may suffer from playing Japanese teams. DuPreez, and Fourie dont seem to have suffered too badly playing in the "crap" Japanese competition. LOL! They were widely hailed as long lost heroes when they returned to the Boks. Nah, NZ will be fine. Its time NZ moved on and stopped lending SAn rugby much needed credibility through the unfortunate SANZAR alliance. 
FO
ForeverArizonaClub Pro580 posts
15 Apr 2014, 20:14
#29
15 Apr 2014, 20:14#29
 This quota system thing is just a political sca re tactics.As soon as the election is over and the ANC loose some foothold on things these changes wont go far.As on legal grounds I doubt that there would be a court that would not claim this as racial discrimination.The unions will through money at this problem.I also think that,if it does happen and they feel the loss of money that things would drastically change back.The average Joe public in SA is un schooled,has to collect his pay check with his thumb print and watches soccer...Its those guys the politicians are hoping to influence.
AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
15 Apr 2014, 20:17
#30
15 Apr 2014, 20:17#30
 I don't understand why the SA people here takes as an offense to think that spliting the current Super Rugby comp is a good idea.

From a selfish point of view I would prefer the SR to continue like it is. I enjoy watching kiwi teams play against SA and aussie teams, confronting completely different ways of playing and thinking the game. I think also that the superiority the SH selections have shown since the pro-era is due in a big part to the SR. It's the best rugby club comp of the world by far, inolving the 3 best rugby nations and the 3 nations have benefited from it. Any other possible combination or change will result in a, just from a sporting point of view, worst choice, the level has to go down necesarily.
So it would be a loss for the rugby followers but it's also true that the current comp involves a lot of logistic and time-zone problems. Now that these problems can be solved I would prefer to mantain the current comp. But in a near future (when we'll surpass the peak-oil and the oil availability and production will begin for the first time ever to decrease with all the consequences that this will bring) it'll be imposible to mantain the SR comp and a little bit later even a same time-zone competiition, so it's good to create debate about it from now on.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
15 Apr 2014, 20:33
#31
15 Apr 2014, 20:33#31

The S12 was a great competition. We should go back to that. But I would be perfectly happy to see SA compete in Europe as well. All these NZ sissies that can't travel can stay down in their backwater then.

NU
nukefreekiwiClub Pro441 posts
15 Apr 2014, 20:35
#32
15 Apr 2014, 20:35#32
 Oh dear, poor old moz thinks that the money SARU currently accrues will magically multiply IF they moved north because SA apparently has cred? Bwahahaha! 


NU
nukefreekiwiClub Pro441 posts
15 Apr 2014, 20:36
#33
15 Apr 2014, 20:36#33
 W ould they be the same sissies that continually pwn your "tough guys" year after year?  Speaking of tough guys, anyone been watching Pistorious sobbing for the last week? Boohoo! Its disturbingly pathetic!
Yes M' Lady ~ sob, sob, sob ~
No M' Lady  ~ whine, whine, whine ~
Sorry M' Lady ~ cry, cry cry ~
Im starting to understand this board a lot more. He sounds like you okes after every game! 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Apr 2014, 21:00
#34
15 Apr 2014, 21:00#34
 Nuke
The big losers will be the Forum members from New Zealand and Australia - you do not have a similar forum there - so you will have nowhere to brag, shout and scream.    
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
15 Apr 2014, 21:16
#35
15 Apr 2014, 21:16#35
CleverMike : this forum would lose one of its main subjects, ie griping about kiwi refs. You would all be lost. You notice that Beeno was deathly silent.
No, sorry boys we are stuck with each other.
 Interesting that this topic riled so many of you up.  
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
15 Apr 2014, 21:31
#36
15 Apr 2014, 21:31#36

Oh wow, Jacque Fourie was fantastic for the Boks on the EOYT!!

 

Nuke, the day SA exits the Super 15 is the day the whole comp implodes.......subbing them with Japan and the likes will lower the standard and turn the comp into a farce........but I trust you know this, but too brittle to admit it.......your hole is already deep enough.  

PE
poi-ePro1,044 posts
15 Apr 2014, 21:55
#37
15 Apr 2014, 21:55#37
I hope SA is ready for summer time rugby because when you join the NH that's what you're gonna get, I'm sure Bath will be chomping at the bit to fly 9 hours to play the Bulls in Pretoria in December....or would the entire game in the NH have to change seasons for the privilege of playing SA sides.
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,295 posts
15 Apr 2014, 22:40
#38
15 Apr 2014, 22:40#38
Yes I not sure how much the Northern Hemishphere would want to play in Durban in January at 42% humidity, or the Bulls on a cement pitch in December compared to the mud baths they are used to. 
Then for South Africa teams to leave the hot weather to play in the freezing cold. I suppose football is more of a summer sport than rugby which is a winter sport. 
The most practical solution is to split the SuperXV tournament up into conferences so that the worst teams from each conference only play in their own region. 
The best teams in each conference only have to play thei weakest local teams once, and the weaker teams can play each other twice- to get a wild card to play foreign opposition). So the strongest 3 teams only play their local teams once, and the weakest 3 teams play each other twice- with the top1 out of the 3 getting included in the international competition. The worst local teams will not be included in the "Super international" competition
Their is little point in the worst teams of each conference playing away games against the top teams of conferences in a different country as they are certainly going to lose.  (Who wants to wake up at 6am in the morning and watch the Cats play the Crusaders in ChristChurch). It can't be very motivating for the weakest teams having to travel half way round the world to certainly lose.
This would limit the amount of games and travelling but also ensure the best teams play each other, as well as allow expansion- which seems inevitabl e.
FO
ForeverArizonaClub Pro580 posts
16 Apr 2014, 00:48
#39
16 Apr 2014, 00:48#39
 My solution is...give Nzl an Oz the finger....THERE IT IS!!!! See it and take it in Nzl and Ozzie's... We take our money,that is 70% of it btw,let these cunt play their shit little games between the pacific islands and Japan...wow that will be very profitable in the long run...wont it? And South Africa form a total new game and championship between the European nations. Trust me,we will benefit and New-kakland and Australia will suffer. But...we all know that wont happen but man...how I wish it would!!!!! Goodbye fucknuts!!!! Party of the century at Purbrite Army training center!!!!!
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
16 Apr 2014, 01:58
#40
16 Apr 2014, 01:58#40
Well it's all hypothetical at this point anyway. We are not the ones making the decisions. I wish the players were asked for their input. The current format is a killer for players.
But party hard guys any excuse is a good excuse. And then you can celebrate again because they are not going to get rid of super rugby & kiwis will still play SA teams (hopefully less often though)  
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