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FORUM / RUGBY /  Meyer catch a bloody wake up

Meyer catch a bloody wake up

Started by Saffolk 30 REPLIES584 VIEWS· 03 Oct 2013, 02:19
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SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
03 Oct 2013, 02:19
#1
03 Oct 2013, 02:19#1

Its bad enough we have the bog ordinary gruntless Kruger starting at 5 against the AB's of all sides.......but to insult us with Franco v/d Merwe ahead of Steph du Toit on the bench is just plain stupidity. Bloody hell it was bad enough having fat Steenkamp on the bench, now we have another gruntless lock warming the bench next to fat Guthro.......can it get any worse?



Awarding Franco a test cap, cheapens the cap........its insulting and smacks of Meyers conservatism........the very conservatism that is going to quash his progression as a test coach.



Damn poor selection

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,297 posts
03 Oct 2013, 02:57
#2
03 Oct 2013, 02:57#2
 Fat Steenakamp seemed to have a decent game over the weekend. 
It seems to be a new tackling technique that he has devised.
He fell on two players instead of tackling them, and winded them which resulted in 2 clean turnovers. 
I have to watch the game again but it seemed like he was also involved in a 3rd turnover by squashing one of the Australian players. 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
03 Oct 2013, 04:47
#3
03 Oct 2013, 04:47#3
Steenkamp was solid, very solid.  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
03 Oct 2013, 06:02
#4
03 Oct 2013, 06:02#4

Steenkamp as a rule has serious scrumming problems and was up against a weak scrumming set up of the Wallabies and he did manage to survive in the scrumming situation  Saturday without giving away his standard penalties when scrumming.   He is so bad Toulouse would normally not start with him but play him from the bench. 

 

I agree with Saffex about him and also about the Franco van der Merwe issue. 

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
03 Oct 2013, 15:11
#5
03 Oct 2013, 15:11#5

Steenkamp has been useless all year, but that was always going to be the case, the man cant even command a starting spot for his French club side.

 

 

The likes of Nkanyane, Kitshoff or Marcel v/d Merwe are streets ahead of fat Steenkamp.

 

 

Meyer has made a few good selection calls like Taute, Willie, JJ, Serfontein, Goosen, v/Zyl, Coenie at 3, Etzebeth, Coetzee, Arno Botha and Kolisi..........but equally he has made some howlers........with Steenkamp being the top of that list, closely followed by CJ v/d Linde, Pat Cilliers, Franco v/d Merwe, Basson, Werner Kruger, Juandre Kruger and de Jongh.

XT
XtramickClub Pro103 posts
03 Oct 2013, 15:39
#6
03 Oct 2013, 15:39#6
You just know when you such a topic heading that it will be a rant about selection. PSDT is certainly the future. As the coach has said in the papers this week he has only had a week with the squad. Do you really want to throw a future superstar into the heat against the nr1 team in the world when he hasnt adjusted to the team structures yet? The unsaid reality is if he hadnt been injured he most probably would have been in the match 23 for the entire championship. Meyer is smart in the way he is bleeding in these talented youngsters. Expect Pieter to make his debut on the EOYT when he has had sufficient time with the squad. 
XT
XtramickClub Pro103 posts
03 Oct 2013, 15:39
#7
03 Oct 2013, 15:39#7
You just know when you such a topic heading that it will be a rant about selection. PSDT is certainly the future. As the coach has said in the papers this week he has only had a week with the squad. Do you really want to throw a future superstar into the heat against the nr1 team in the world when he hasnt adjusted to the team structures yet? The unsaid reality is if he hadnt been injured he most probably would have been in the match 23 for the entire championship. Meyer is smart in the way he is bleeding in these talented youngsters. Expect Pieter to make his debut on the EOYT when he has had sufficient time with the squad. 
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
03 Oct 2013, 15:43
#8
03 Oct 2013, 15:43#8

Yes PSDT was ready for Test rugby last year..........he does not need months in the squad before being selected.......what a load of shit. If he is good enough, you select him end of.

 

 

He is twice the player Kruger and Franco are and for that very reason you pick him, just like Meyer picked Etzebeth straight away.

 

 

PSDT should have started with Lood de Jager on the bench.......two real locks, not bloody pretenders  

XT
XtramickClub Pro103 posts
03 Oct 2013, 15:57
#9
03 Oct 2013, 15:57#9
Lood de jager has been underwhelming in the currie cup. Not as impressive as he was at super15 level and he is probably due a break. It is important for him to sustain the level of performance so he can come into contention for selection next year. He wasnt even at the training camps this year. For me you have to put the team first and having someone running around doing his own thing because he isnt used to the team structure isnt beneficial, however talented a player may be. PSDT will get his chance and have a fair opportunity to cement his place in the side 
IH
IhiClub Pro201 posts
03 Oct 2013, 16:07
#10
03 Oct 2013, 16:07#10
 saffex gurthro has been your best loosehead for a few years now. whats the problem? are you an anti-bulls guy? also what statistics and stuff can you give to back up that statement, twice the player? thats a helluva statement to make! does he carry for twice the metres? win twice the turnovers? makes twice cas many tackles? win twice as many turnovers? but yes flip will be missed big time and i think that could cost you guys the result.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
04 Oct 2013, 00:07
#11
04 Oct 2013, 00:07#11
Xtra, with all due respect you sound like one of those conservative Bulls supporters who's idea of a good time is throwing stones into a dam.
This bullshit about a player needing to know the structures before being selected is absolute rubbish. For a start, Lood's form has been fine in the CC and secondly he is a far better player than useless Franco and Kruger and it was a pathetic call by Meyer not inviting him to the training camps much like it was his snubbing of Brussouw and Elstadt.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
04 Oct 2013, 00:09
#12
04 Oct 2013, 00:09#12
 Ihi I get the impression you know fuck all about rugby. Steenkamp has not been our best loosehead, Beats has........Steenkamp was good in his day but has long past it......he is shit these days as he is unfit and past it.

Kitshoff, Nkanyane, Mellett and Marcel v/d Merwe are all better looseheads now
XT
XtramickClub Pro103 posts
04 Oct 2013, 00:46
#13
04 Oct 2013, 00:46#13
FYI im not a bulls supporter. I like de jager and think he has the qualities to be in and around the squad. He isnt a superstar in the making though. Even though i like lood more than franco and kruger i still wouldnt select him ahead of them for this test. He has been out of the loop and surely with a sporting background you must know that cohesion is as important as individual qualities 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
04 Oct 2013, 00:53
#14
04 Oct 2013, 00:53#14
Spot on Mick....the team is more than the sum of the parts. And Lood was easily handled by the Stormers locks. No superstar, maybe international bench level.  
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
04 Oct 2013, 00:53
#15
04 Oct 2013, 00:53#15
Nope a winning rugby side is about selecting the best 23.......just like the AB's do...........Franco and Kruger are nowhere near being amongst the best 23 and that is the very reason we will continue to come second to the AB's
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
04 Oct 2013, 01:32
#16
04 Oct 2013, 01:32#16
Nonsense the ABs selected Muliaina ahead of Dagg for  ages. You have a team, and players don't get replaced unti a player has proven he is better and has spent time in the squad. No sensible person would put Stephanie in there right now, following his long lay off.....and there is no case for Lood.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
04 Oct 2013, 01:37
#17
04 Oct 2013, 01:37#17
Muliaina was the best 15 at the time he played.............only a conservative coach would select Franco for his first Bok cap ahead of PSDT..........or should I say a stupid coach.
XT
XtramickClub Pro103 posts
04 Oct 2013, 12:15
#18
04 Oct 2013, 12:15#18
Luckily for us you are not the coach or a selector because you would ruin young player with bok potential. Your strategy reminds me of the Straueli era. Let a youngster play when he is as strategically ready as his skills set is. Otherwise you are just setting him up for failure 
KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
04 Oct 2013, 12:46
#19
04 Oct 2013, 12:46#19
 I have always like Guhtrow and CJ, they are not doing themselves any favours at the moment. I was hoping that they would follow Os's lead. Os's was brilliant when he was young, had a few injuries, retired, got frustrated at how poorly the cheetahs scrum and decided to come out of retirement. He then transformed himself into a scrumming legend. Os no longer had the pace and strength to carry 5 players on his back to the try line or make one of his trade mark hits, but his last ever game, France 2007, the man was a juggernaut. You couldn't get him off the field.
I was hoping for the same with CJ and Steenkamp. At some point these guys was fantastic and I would love to see them have the same desire and work ethic as Os in their latter years. To massive scrummagers with all the experience in the world that can really take the wind out packs. Then have the more younger and energetic players such as Coenie, Trevor and co come on to really get the game going.
WinWin, but both of them just turned to be fat lards, there is still hope though
BU
BuzzClub Pro175 posts
04 Oct 2013, 13:41
#20
04 Oct 2013, 13:41#20
Franco is a better player than Flip and has more grunt than Kruger and Pieter , so on the sheer concept of a heavy powerful pack Franco walks it.  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
04 Oct 2013, 14:27
#21
04 Oct 2013, 14:27#21

There are a number of arguments as to the issue of Frannco van der Merwe and Gurthro Steenkamp - even C J van der Linde is brought in.

 

In my opinion I do agree with some issues raised -  but have to express the following factual situation as far as I am concerned:-

 

CJ van der Linde

 

CJ van der Linde was a key player in 2007 and was also good in 2009-10.   In 2011 the Storermers/WP signed him up as a prop forward.   They found he has lost his mojo and they could not get rid of him fast enough.   Van der Linde in 2012 played for the Lions and was mostly used as a bench prop.

 

Meyer made a fool of himself and selected Van der Linde for the EOYT in 2012 and then not surprisingly found that he was not up to standard.   Van der Linde at one stage was the top prop in SA - but he is not anymore and I do believe he never was an Os du Rand and is at this stage playing CC rugby - far from good enough on higher level.    Age took care of this one - I am afraid.

 

Gurthro Steenkamp

 

A top prop and a worthy Springbok before he departed for Toulouse.   Gurthro - already 32 years of age - decided to play rugby, but his most serious effort was  to damage the food supply resources in France as best as he could.   Already heavy before departure for France he got fat and became the Toulouse bench prop.   A few weeks ago (after the Argentina test in Mendoza) went back to Toulouse and because of injury, Toulouse was forced to use him in their starting line up.   He was very poor in that game and one of the major reasons for the loss of the game by Toulouse.  

 

Interesting enough - because of the injury problems and the absence of Steenkamp - Toulouse called up Frerreira from the Kings and used him as their prop.  From the games I saw him in, he really did well.

 

Steenkamp is not an international level player anymore - the fact is that his club has not enough faith in him to use him as their front line prop.   Meyer picked him for the EOYT and although he stood up reasonably well in the scrums for 30 minutes in every game - he obviously was too fat and not match fit.   He was not really a reasonable prop anymore and his performances in the tests this year was nondescript and at times not acceptable.   To his credit it must be mentioned that he surprisingly had a good game on Saturday when he came from the bench - but it should be borne in mind that the Wallabies pack is not really up to standard.

 

At 32 years of age he definitely has no future on test level and he should be replaced asap.

 

Franco van der Merwe

 

Looking at the Super 15 games as well as the CC games - there is one common trait between Kruger and Van der Merwe nd that is that both call line out throw ins.   For the rest there are playing elements to be borne in mind as well:-

 

*   Kruger has no grunt at all - but to be fare to Franco he does have some

 

*   Kruger is fairly poor in line outs - Franco is slightly better.

 

If I have a straight choice between Kruger and  Franco - and there are no other candidates available - my choice would be Franco.

 

To my mind both the two players are not really international level locks and should not really be in the team.   However, I do not think that Meyer thinks that Lood de Jager is ready yet - he probably will be after another good Super 15 season.   I also think that the real deal is Pieter Steph du Toit.

 

However, I can understand why Meyer is not playing Du Toit this coming weekend - he is still very young and is coming from a long injury-enforced lay off.   I think Du Toit is a definite for starting in the EOYT tests.

 

Basically I think that there are a couple of players in the team that will let us down in the test against the AB's - but they are there because of injuries to key players and the fact that Meyer is absolutely dead set on the present loosie combination.   Bad news that one.   

   

KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
04 Oct 2013, 14:42
#22
04 Oct 2013, 14:42#22
 Very good point Mike, for me it would have been great to have real test mongrel up front with loads of experience, but it looks like our front row is going the same way as our locks at the moment. Loads of young talent around that needs a few seasons under their belt but no true veterans in the Os and Montegomery mould that can pull the youngsters through. Beast is still up there but can go on a walk about sometimes and Jannie is not much better. He does more harm in a game than all the good that he does. The test match in Eden Park was evident enough of how he can really let the team down. Then you have his eye gouge attempt against the Aussies last week. For a Dr he just doesn’t seem to have any guile or brains on the field.

At this stage, regards to how poor our senior locks are, I would almost welcome Bakkies or even Danie Rossouw for another season or two before the world cup, even if it’s just as a reserve while the youngsters find their feet. Much better choice than Kruger and Flip.

Franco actually played really well in 2011 / 2012 but got overlooked. It was only this season for the sharks that he struggled.

It is a hard call to have PSDT on the bench, real great talent and was in fantastic form at the beginning of the season. One of the few players that made real difference in a poor performing team.

Estebeth showed that he can face up to the best, why not get PSDT a crack?

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
04 Oct 2013, 14:47
#23
04 Oct 2013, 14:47#23

kingcorn

 

I would have - but Meyer obviously thought otherwise because of the injury lay-off of u Toit.   By the way - I saw a recent losing game of Toulon - which they lost - and B akkies Botha was poor at best.   Definitely past his prime and I would rather have Franco than him in the squad. 

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
04 Oct 2013, 15:40
#24
04 Oct 2013, 15:40#24
Buzz you clearly know fuck all about rugby.......Franco more grunt than PSDT.....bwhaaaaahaaaaaaaaa  
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
04 Oct 2013, 15:44
#25
04 Oct 2013, 15:44#25

Lood was not handled by the Stormers locks, handled in what way really?

 

 

Lood has been one of the finds of the season......this 20 year at 2.05m and 125kg is just what we need in the Bok set-up. He is the perfect back-up to Etzebeth and PSDT because not only does he get stuck in, is great in the line-outs, he can cover  either 4 or 5 as he has done for the Cheetahs.

 

 

His omission by Meyer is glaring, its not even a marginal call. Investing in Kruger and Franco is insulting. 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
04 Oct 2013, 15:57
#26
04 Oct 2013, 15:57#26
That's your problem Dave, we are not investing in anybody for this game....we are trying to win it. We can invest against Samoa, an opponent that allows you players to shine.
KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
04 Oct 2013, 16:06
#27
04 Oct 2013, 16:06#27
 Saffex, I think if Lood signed for the bulls, his name would be the first on Meyers list. 
Meyer really needs to bring some of these youngsters through, using the end of year tour. He has to stop his obsession with bulls and sub average locks.
With Youngsters such as Elstadt, Estebeth, PSDT and Lood. We have enough depth to take us to the world bup and the next 2 there after. 
Saffex, any other quali ty Locks you see coming through?
BU
BuzzClub Pro175 posts
04 Oct 2013, 16:07
#28
04 Oct 2013, 16:07#28
I bow down to your superior Knowledge Saffex , although you are a big fan of Elton , which does worry me.   
DE
Dr EvilNewbie7 posts
04 Oct 2013, 16:39
#29
04 Oct 2013, 16:39#29

 As you know every diabolical plan i've hatched for world domination has been thwarted by these cursed All Blacks.

Why must i be surrounded by idiots?

If only Meyer would listen to the evil genius Dr Evil -( i am very very naughty)

 

.... the key elements to a good world domination plan is

1. Thermonuclear device

2. Exotic delivery system

3. closed circuit TV to talk to the President/UN

4. sense of self

5. there is no fifth

 

 

 How about we finish these pesky All Blacks once and for all with ....

 

 1) A giant lazer with which we could hit these All Blacks Zot Zot Boink  

 2)  We unleash more of the crazy Dutch bastards .

 

 

 

 

NT
ntangaClub Pro336 posts
04 Oct 2013, 21:43
#30
04 Oct 2013, 21:43#30
 @ Dr. Evil,
We unleash what?

I'm not quite sure what you really mean on your last sentence.  
KA
KalaedFreddieClub Pro495 posts
04 Oct 2013, 22:22
#31
04 Oct 2013, 22:22#31
 Beeno1...mole alert!
Saffex, Latex, with that unrivalled genius please pray tell why have you never applied for a top coaching job? It seems such a waste to waste that talent on an Internet chat room!
— END OF THREAD —

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