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FORUM / RUGBY /  Meyer goes for hulks

Meyer goes for hulks

Started by Beeno117 REPLIES399 VIEWS· 04 Jun 2012, 12:39
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BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
04 Jun 2012, 12:39
#1
04 Jun 2012, 12:39#1

RYAN VREDE of Keo writes that Heyneke Meyer’s first Springbok squad sent a discouraging message to diminutive players.

Over the years of my professional association with Meyer he has consistently spoken of four primary criteria when assessing players. Strength and size are the most pertinent attributes for the purposes of this piece. The absence of those attributes is primarily what precluded players of the ilk of Gio Aplon and Juan de Jongh from Springbok selection.

It is a throwback to the Jake White era, where players with game-breaking skills but who were of a relatively diminutive constitution, were consistently overlooked. Brent Russell suffered most at the time and his omission – despite an extended period in which he impressed in Super Rugby – was a constant matter of debate.

White famously argued that a talented big guy would always trump a talent little one. Meyer shares that view. (Has always been my belief)

This is not a judgement on that view. Indeed, through numerous conversations with him I’ve come to understand the rationale that guides that thinking. And neither am I suggesting that Meyer has a complete disregard for smaller players. He is a great admirer of Aplon and De Jongh’s attacking play, but has serious reservations about their ability to consistently dominate the tackle fight on attack and defence (characteristics he values highly and ones that are central to the success of his game plan) and fears that at Test level Aplon would be targeted as being vulnerable to high kicks, whether deployed at wing or fullback.

What then of a player like Bjorn Basson who at 84kg and 1.84m doesn’t appear to fit the physical bill? Meyer reasons his exceptional aerial ability and appreciable speed is crucial in the context of his kick-chase game plan and makes up for what he lacks in size. Morne Steyn, no giant himself, is saved by his goal and tactical-kicking ability. Had he not been injured Johann Goosen would have made the squad because Meyer believes he has an X factor.

Aplon and De Jongh are not seen to have such redeeming features. This should be concerning if you are a South African backline player (particularly if you play in the back three) that lacks a quality or qualities (by Meyer’s standard) to circumvent your physical limitations. Your chances are even more remote if you’re a forward of modest build. Keegan Daniel’s selection is evidence that Meyer is not closed to such selections. But Daniel, not in Meyer’s plans until very recently, has had to be consistently excellent for the Sharks to advance his cause (his performance against the Stormers at Kings Park a fortnight ago sealed his inclusion). Whether he sees any game time during the England series remains to be seen but he almost certainly won’t be a starter if he does.

It would be remiss not to ask whether Aplon and De Jongh have in fact done enough to feel aggrieved at their exclusion? Certainly the Stormers’ attacking struggles have compromised them, but even so, Aplon hasn’t scaled the heights that earned him the 2010 Players’ Player of the Year award and De Jongh has failed to replicate the form he showed in his formative years. Neither have let themselves or their team down, but equally neither have really made a granitic case for inclusion.

The wee fellas in Super Rugby will know they have to be consistently outstanding to catch Meyer’s eye. It is unfair, but Meyer’s conviction on this issue won’t wane for the foreseeable future. He loves the hulks and dazzling dwarves face a period in the Test wilderness unless they add attributes to their armoury that would make them impossible to ignore.

Beeno and Meyer basically on the same page.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
04 Jun 2012, 13:04
#2
04 Jun 2012, 13:04#2

 Good on Meyer, I am with him all the way regarding size and as this article says, de Jongh and Aplon have done squat this year to merit selection, regardless of their size

SB
sitting bullClub Pro170 posts
04 Jun 2012, 13:12
#3
04 Jun 2012, 13:12#3

... Moonbean whats happening ....rain puddle team win goes unnoticed... watchout for the Kiwis in the English team Moonbean....then theres heaps of Kiwis in the Aussie team...40 kiwis playing for 9 different nations last year...without counting all the coaches but you should be fine if you watchout for the Kiwis....

BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
04 Jun 2012, 13:23
#4
04 Jun 2012, 13:23#4

saffex, this article is pretty much summs up what you have been saying for the last few weeks. I think you have been pretty much o nthe money.

BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
04 Jun 2012, 13:23
#5
04 Jun 2012, 13:23#5

saffex, this article is pretty much summs up what you have been saying for the last few weeks. I think you have been pretty much o nthe money.

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
04 Jun 2012, 13:59
#6
04 Jun 2012, 13:59#6

When you dont know what's happening sitting bull you have come to the right place!!

You will notice we have three teams in top six and we have no kiwis playing for us. I trust you grasp the point I am making sitting bull.

2013 marks the begining of Bok domination. Kwis will resume their traditional second place unless Oz boots them down to 3!

Hahahahhaahhahahahaha

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
04 Jun 2012, 14:07
#7
04 Jun 2012, 14:07#7

I agree with the outline given in the article.   The problem is that smaller players can make an impact when they start off - like Russell, Aplon and De Jong did - but opposing international teams work them out quickly and neutralize their effectiveness.

I would not have chosen De Jong in any position - he is ineffective in attack.   Aplon is much better - but also not better than Pietersen.    If Pietersen was not injured - he may have been included ahead of Kirchner - he is ten times the player Kirchner can be.   He is highly rated all over the Super 15 area.

Now for Daniel - I think he is in the mix temporarily till the injured players are back.   The next squad will include all the players from the group of 6 (Kolisi and Malherbe especially , and some youngsters from the Junior Boks.   Meyer's team strategy is going to take time to develop - but will concentrate on ball skills and strength.   

SB
sitting bullClub Pro170 posts
04 Jun 2012, 14:10
#8
04 Jun 2012, 14:10#8

...Moonbean who has'nt got three teams in the top six..haha...but until you achieve world domination in rugby , rugby league and sevens as the Kiwis currently have then i can't really start taking you yarpies seriously as footballers....

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
04 Jun 2012, 14:20
#9
04 Jun 2012, 14:20#9

Ás long as its not a mindless rule. A small player can make it - eg Jason Robinson - but they will be exceptions.

Daniel's future depends on how dominant the tight five are. To me he is a backline player playing on the flank  If you can carry that its a possibilty. I much prefer Brussouw to Daniels. I think Brussouw should have made a 30 man squad. Ahshley Johnston before Kan Kan as well. Jaque potgieter is a good one as is coetzee.

I think Meyer will have  Coetzee at 6, Spies at 8 and Alberts at 7. If Alberts plays to his potential that is not too bad a loose trio. On the bench he will have Jaque Potgieter. We shall see.

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
04 Jun 2012, 14:31
#10
04 Jun 2012, 14:31#10

De Jong will not let the Boks down but he will not give us an edge. Would anybody advocate starting with Aplon, Joe and De Jong is the Bok side? I doubt it. reasn they lack the necessay punch and do not dominate in the tackle/collisions. Bringing a guy down is one thing and an offensive tackle is another.

Could you afford one of them - maybe.Joe would certainly be better than Kirchner. Not much between De Jong and Olivier. De Jong may have the edge.However none of these players shoudl start.

sitting bull we have no interest in rugby league - a primitive game, and very little in sevens where our sevens sides consist of no name players.

What is of interest to us is test rugby where for many years before isolation we were your masters. That time looks set to return.

Remember sitting bull its was Beeno who informed you about all this.

ST
Stormer77Rookie76 posts
04 Jun 2012, 18:48
#11
04 Jun 2012, 18:48#11

KEO always has the SNIFF for great articles .............oh no wait no

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
05 Jun 2012, 03:48
#12
05 Jun 2012, 03:48#12

Yep blue, its hardly brain science - one only needs to look at the modern test trend - there are no under 90kg wings, fullbacks or centres playing for the top test teams - there is a reason for this, but some clowns just cant crasp or comprehend this.

Maybe they think the Boks should be different, lets take on the world with Joe at 15, Aplon at 11, Basson at 14, Ebersohn at 13 and de Jongh at 12!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RE
redsmanPro1,710 posts
05 Jun 2012, 07:23
#13
05 Jun 2012, 07:23#13

@ Saffex James Oconnor - a starter for any team in the world is 84Kgs.

I wouldnt say you'd have a backline full of lightweights but its more about 'power to weight ratio' and then that essential element of SPEEEED!

re sitting bull yourefull of it buddy - Australia own anyone @ RL - but unfortunately it is a primitive game that appeals for simple minded... unfortunately too many good athletes play that code in Aust - would love to see Inglis / Slater play real rugby.......

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
05 Jun 2012, 08:55
#14
05 Jun 2012, 08:55#14

Nobody advocates having all of  Aplon, Pietersen and de Jongh in the Bok backline. But if defence is the concern one wonders why the Stormers are the best defensive side. The facts just never add up, do they.

 

Redsman you are right about O Connor. One small explosive back read O Connor, read Aplon, can pick apart the defences in a way the big conventional guys can't.

 

Sapp I just keep wondering as you now find you love Meyer, are you still predicting a Bok loss.

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
05 Jun 2012, 11:04
#15
05 Jun 2012, 11:04#15

Redsman it is the exception that PROVES THE RULE. It also means yu must keep an open mind on the matter as there wil lb ethe odd exception.

Moz  if size is not a factor why not have all three, Each one has been touted. So if not all three how about two or is it one?

RE
redsmanPro1,710 posts
05 Jun 2012, 13:02
#16
05 Jun 2012, 13:02#16

Its funny how the smaller guys that make it @ test level eg Oconnor / Aplon even Corey JAne are all quick - there's something about trying to tackle a really quick little bloke with a good step and fend -

I would say there is room  for 1 or 2 smaller backs so long as thy've got pace to burn.... its as simple as:

 momentum = mass x velocity

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
05 Jun 2012, 13:47
#17
05 Jun 2012, 13:47#17

Red you will find O'Connor now weighs around 90kgs and is an exceptional talent. I have always maintained that an under 90kg player can play if special and this kid is very special.

Aplon is good, not special. de Jongh is not even close to special

James O'Connor at 90kg's

http://www.sanzarrugby.com/superrugby/news/australian-conference-2012-super-rugby-squads/

LU
lunaticClub Pro305 posts
05 Jun 2012, 13:53
#18
05 Jun 2012, 13:53#18

 How can one trust anything coming from that lot!  Sis, after all the dirt published on them why still quote the sexist fools... Phoooo

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