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Mike's theory on Stauss

Started by MonsterBok43 REPLIES467 VIEWS· 23 Jun 2016, 02:57
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MO
MonsterBokClub Pro442 posts
23 Jun 2016, 02:57
#1
23 Jun 2016, 02:57#1
A new day has dawned, lets refrain from abusing each other today hey!
I thought I would add my inexperienced, however, reliant on a Professional Tighthead's perspective on Mike's theory of Strauss being the weak link in the front row causing the embarrassment of any tighthead we use.
Last night I was going about my business coaching my U12's (here in Perth) when we had a scheduled visit from some of our Western Force players to give us some tips (yes I can hear many of you laughing from here), however one of the players present was Guy Miller the Force tighthead. Guy hasn't featured much and can possibly be perceived as fairly inexperienced , BUT, he has reasonable experience playing in the ITM cup and has now been contracted to the Highlanders. 
Long story short, presuming he has something to offer the Highlanders I can only deduct that he knows a little about his role as a Tighthead.
I took the opportunity to speak with him specifically regarding the role of a hooker and particularly in relation to Strauss.
Guy Miller's words, not mine." The hooker in the front row has a MASSIVE influence in the success of a tighthead and in his experience Adriaan Strauss is a WEAK scrummager and therefore in his opinion would undoubtedly contribute to the demise of the tighthead in the scrums. Maybe Guy's looking for an escape goat!!!
In conclusion I do not pretend to understand fully on what goes on in the front row or the tight five come scrum time, but I cannot ignore the comments of a current Super Rugby tighthead who is now contracted to the Highlanders.
But I still think Coenie and Mal-hash-it-up are cr*p. 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
23 Jun 2016, 04:07
#2
23 Jun 2016, 04:07#2
Interesting, but a sample of one....although from his comments one assumes he actually scrummed against Strauss? I don't think anybody on this Board assumes the hooker doesn't have a key role in scrumming, so that part is no surprise.
By way of a contrary perspective consider this....the Bok scrum with Bismarck, Koch and Lomp was destroyed by the Bargies in the first test in 2015. In the second test with Strauss for Bismarck, Nyakane for the Beast, Marcel for Koch and Matfield for Lomp we did a lot better. And Strauss got much of the credit:

Adriaan Strauss 6.5

Steadied the scrum and was busy around the park. Hopefully he is playing himself back into form.
Rugby365: 7/10
Sport24: 6.5
OuGrote: 6.5

Obviously there were several contributions, but it's hard to believe given the improvement, that Strauss was less effective than Bismarck generally regarded as a strong scrummager. 


MO
MonsterBokClub Pro442 posts
23 Jun 2016, 04:19
#3
23 Jun 2016, 04:19#3
I agree,One can only assume the complex dynamics that form the entire success of a scrum where all concerned need to contribute and execute almost perfectly. I'm told that being the primary function of a tighhead is to anchor the scrum, it is imperative that the Hooker be faultless in his technique, contribution and execution.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
23 Jun 2016, 04:33
#4
23 Jun 2016, 04:33#4
 I looked up the match vs the Bools and Miller was on the park with Strauss adding credibility to his account. The scrums were a bit of a lottery...the Bools losing 1 out of 3, and the Force 2 out of 7.
It's good to have an informed opinion...nice report Monster.
MO
MonsterBokClub Pro442 posts
23 Jun 2016, 04:49
#5
23 Jun 2016, 04:49#5
Just on the side,
We had Kyle Godwin down there last night as well, he quiet regularly pops down, they all do a good job mingling with the clubs around Perth. I asked him what he though of playing under Meyer if that was at all to eventuate, he paused, then paused again, I said I hope you have bulked up (which he has +- 97kg's now) because you're gonna be crash balling all day long. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Jun 2016, 05:36
#6
23 Jun 2016, 05:36#6
 Monsterbok - so my theory on scrumming is not all BS as Mozart tried to make it out to be.  He in his response tried to discredited what the Force guy said and came in with the  newspaper report on the issue.   But thanks for the posting anyway - I still think I was correct on the issue.   By the way is Kyle Godwin not from Zimbabwe originally?       
MO
MonsterBokClub Pro442 posts
23 Jun 2016, 06:32
#7
23 Jun 2016, 06:32#7
Kyle is a Zimbo yes! Both Guy Miller and Chris Alcock that was also there last night are soeties like me from Durb's bru. 
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
23 Jun 2016, 08:02
#8
23 Jun 2016, 08:02#8
 Obviously the hooker plays a part in the set piece. That's not the issue here.
Strauss is the latest target. 
Mike and his usual thumb sucking has his finger pointed toward Strauss. According to Mike, Malherbe's poor showing is Strauss' fault. Beast is also innocent of poor technique ... it's Strauss' fault. Every prop he's ever played with suffered at the set piece because of Strauss. 
Strauss is the only person responsible for our poor scrum. 
When Coenie hinges, it's that damn weak link Strauss. When Jannie scrums in ... it's Strauss' fault. When Kruger finds his head up his bum ... it's Strauss ... same goes for Greyling ... the poor dear didn't stand a chance with Strauss at hooker. 
Strauss, Strauss, Strausssssss ... 
He's been asked several times over to prove it and yet I'm still waiting ... that's a week ago ... and still nothing ... no evidence other than he's say so.
He honestly thinks that whatever he says should be taken down as fact. 

He's come up with some real doozy's in the past ... Alberts, Morne, Kriel, Goosen, Matfield, Mapoe, De Jongh, De Allende, Lood De Jager ... and now it's Strauss' turn. 
He's as ignorant as they come ... and to show his arrogance he's even named himself "clevermike" ... unfounded of course ...
Personally I think "DumbAssDoos" would be better suited but hey that's just my take ...
I can't wait to see who's at fault next week. 

 
DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
23 Jun 2016, 08:31
#9
23 Jun 2016, 08:31#9

In a conversation with Strauss himself last night, it became very apparent that Allister Coetzee is very well respected by the team as Springbok coach, and Strauss himself said that this team will end up being one of the best Springbok teams we have seen in a very long time, with big plans for the future.


He mentioned how calm Allister was when they were down at half time in last weekend's game.  He said they separated the forwards and the backs in the change room at half time into their own groups and mentioned how he Allister instilled the belief in all of them, that they would still win that game


Was interesting to hear about it  

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Jun 2016, 08:51
#10
23 Jun 2016, 08:51#10
 CC- You know you can talk a lot of Sh!t often enough - but the above takes the cake.  Miller - who scrummed against Strauss - said he is a weak scrummager.  I said he is weak because in the case of every team Strauss played in the scrumming became a lottery ticket - normally with a worse chance of being good enough in scrumming than a person have of winning the main Powerball prize.   However, nobody on this site can point out a real deficiency in players when it goes against the sayings of some members who always claim they are omniscient and knows everything about the game - especially when they dislike some players.   So they try - often enough falsely - to blame players for deficiencies, because they want to see their own favourites in the Springbok team.  Not even when Redelinghuys came n Saturday and failed in scrumming - did it hit home that he was not to blame, since he is a very strong scrummager.  Why don't you accept for a change that you were wrong in this case?        
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Jun 2016, 08:51
#11
23 Jun 2016, 08:51#11
 CC- You know you can talk a lot of Sh!t often enough - but the above takes the cake.  Miller - who scrummed against Strauss - said he is a weak scrummager.  I said he is weak because in the case of every team Strauss played in the scrumming became a lottery ticket - normally with a worse chance of being good enough in scrumming than a person have of winning the main Powerball prize.   However, nobody on this site can point out a real deficiency in players when it goes against the sayings of some members who always claim they are omniscient and knows everything about the game - especially when they dislike some players.   So they try - often enough falsely - to blame players for deficiencies, because they want to see their own favourites in the Springbok team.  Not even when Redelinghuys came n Saturday and failed in scrumming - did it hit home that he was not to blame, since he is a very strong scrummager.  Why don't you accept for a change that you were wrong in this case?       
MO
MonsterBokClub Pro442 posts
23 Jun 2016, 08:53
#12
23 Jun 2016, 08:53#12
DA, no disrespect but talk is cheap. If indeed (And I hope so) that this team is to be the greatest ever, Strauss needs to seriously get his Sh*t together. Amongst others. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Jun 2016, 09:41
#13
23 Jun 2016, 09:41#13
 Strauss has to talk up Coetzee as tops - or he will stew in his own juice.  Instead of talking - he should start performing.
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
23 Jun 2016, 10:03
#14
23 Jun 2016, 10:03#14
 @DA, John Smit, et al, talked up PDV like that as well.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Jun 2016, 10:07
#15
23 Jun 2016, 10:07#15
 Morning Doffies.  I wrote about the issue of the role of the hooke r in scrumming and you came back with your standard BS.  Time to apologize for writing tripe - not so - egg collector. 
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
23 Jun 2016, 10:30
#16
23 Jun 2016, 10:30#16
 I'm still waiting for proof, DumbAssMike.
It's a week now ... and still nothing.
I hope I won't have wait too much longer.


MO
MonsterBokClub Pro442 posts
23 Jun 2016, 10:45
#17
23 Jun 2016, 10:45#17
Please remember the first line of my post.
"A new day has dawned, lets refrain from abusing each other today hey"
Or choose to ignore it.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Jun 2016, 10:57
#18
23 Jun 2016, 10:57#18

CC

Lets go to your list iof players I said were involved in deficiencies or I promoted in the past:-

Alberts, Morne, Kriel, Goosen, Matfield, Mapoe, De Jongh, De Allende, Lood De Jager

Alberts

Alberts was always pace-deficient and as a result his defense was wicked.  He never in his career as a player was ever involved in ball protection and recovery at breakdown points – partly because of his pace-deficiency.   Carry a few balls without real affect and that was it.   He was low work rate player who was never an asset for the Springbok team.

Morne Steyn

Morne was the only player who was dropped repeatedly by Meyer from the Springbok team – once in 2012 and twice in 2014 because of serious under-performance.    He was the traditional ball kicker – good at kicking at goalbut too many of his out-of-hand kicks were aimless and poor in execution.  Was really the pits as a backline pivot - probably in the latter respect the worst we had over the last twenty years.  His defense stank to high heaven as well.   Is it not an indication that Morne Steyn is the regular bench flyhalf for his club (Stade Francais) and hence a dubious test flyhalf?

Kriel

Are you referring to Jesse Kriel here?   I said he was deficient in Super Rugby this year – so was I wrong?

Goosen

I based my comments on what happened in games Goosen played in this year – as well as what the commentators said about him”being the most valuable backline player” of Racing Metro.  That with Dan Carter in the backline too.   Because you think otherwise – you have no right to say I am talking crap.

Matfield

I did not say anything negative about Matfield before is retirement from the game in 2011.   What happened since his return was said by previous Springbok locks and I just said he was physically-deficient and not usable in the Tight 5.   That was based on comments made by previous players and commentators – so were they wrong?   The claimed he was good in line-out play and that is where – according to them – it ended.

Mapoe

I never once criticized Mapoe when he played for the Lions.  Can you please enlighten me – what exactly did he produced in the two tests e played in against the Irish?  I said he was deficient in both because of deficient performance – but tell me where I am wrong and gove practical examples.      

De Jongh

Went Awol in the two tests in 20112 and has a tendency not to defend properly.   A very poor defensive record in fact.  Even his chief promoter – Mozart – admits he is nt a test level center

De Allende

I was quite frank in saying he was not up to the standard he was in 2015 – but in the last test was the one player who showed class – even in the frst half.  You are too blinkered not to realize that. 

Lood de Jager

Donn’t know what you are talking about.  Last year he was SA Player of the Year – I said his performances this year was not up to standard.   Do you disagree.

Problem is – I look at all-round performances of all players on an objective basis – not on the basis of dislike of some players and narrow provincialism.  For instance I criticized defensive lapses by De Allende – but point out th scenario as a whole – I do not take it to the level you take it to.

Look – did you not get enough egg in our face after Millar said:-

“The hooker in the front row has a MASSIVE influence in the success of a tighthead and in his experience Adriaan Strauss is a WEAK scrummager and therefore in his opinion would undoubtedly contribute to the demise of the tighthead in the scrums.”

 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Jun 2016, 11:00
#19
23 Jun 2016, 11:00#19
 CC - Proof of what?  I gave many examples of scrumming of players in the case of props - in the case where Strauss is not there and where the scrumming of the same players suffer when Strauss is the Hooker  - are you not realising the difference.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Jun 2016, 11:00
#20
23 Jun 2016, 11:00#20
 CC - Proof of what?  I gave many examples of scrumming of players in the case of props - in the case where Strauss is not there and where the scrumming of the same players suffer when Strauss is the Hooker  - are you not realising the difference.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Jun 2016, 11:00
#21
23 Jun 2016, 11:00#21
 CC - Proof of what?  I gave many examples of scrumming of players in the case of props - in the case where Strauss is not there and where the scrumming of the same players suffer when Strauss is the Hooker  - are you not realising the difference.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Jun 2016, 11:00
#22
23 Jun 2016, 11:00#22
 CC - Proof of what?  I gave many examples of scrumming of players in the case of props - in the case where Strauss is not there and where the scrumming of the same players suffer when Strauss is the Hooker  - are you not realising the difference.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Jun 2016, 11:00
#23
23 Jun 2016, 11:00#23
 CC - Proof of what?  I gave many examples of scrumming of players in the case of props - in the case where Strauss is not there and where the scrumming of the same players suffer when Strauss is the Hooker  - are you not realising the difference.
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
23 Jun 2016, 12:11
#24
23 Jun 2016, 12:11#24
 Sadly not, DumbAssMike. 
I need facts ... not some deluded ranting.
You weren't able to supplement your theory with anything of substance. 






CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Jun 2016, 12:29
#25
23 Jun 2016, 12:29#25
 Yet Miller as an opposing prop says Strauss is a poor scrummager.   Strauss has caused the teams he played for to show deficient scrummaging - even Redelinghuys failed with Strauss at hooker.  Facts are that I looked at the rugby history over the last three years and the deficiencies in the scrumming this year.   If that is not good enough for you - nothing will ever be.  Stop being so block-headed and  accept that I was right from the word go.   However, if you do accept - some of your ideas will have to go out of the window - so bad news for you since you would never want to live with that.  
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
23 Jun 2016, 14:28
#26
23 Jun 2016, 14:28#26
There is zero proof that Strauss is a poor scrummager. He was brought in  to improve our scrumming  against Argentina in 2014....and succeeded! 
What we are dealing with is the opinion of one player, an ex Saffa, who more than likely has his own agenda. Perhaps enough to raise an issue that has never been raised before....an hypothesis. Now you need proof and thus far the proof points to Strauss being a strong scrummager.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Jun 2016, 14:45
#27
23 Jun 2016, 14:45#27
 Not even an opposing prop who played against Strauss can convince the idiots on this site.   Not only the long history of Strauss in scrumming will convince them either.  It is better not to argue with empty-headed dolts on this type of issue. 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
23 Jun 2016, 15:22
#28
23 Jun 2016, 15:22#28
 No it's better to provide evidence....situations where Strauss can be isolated as the cause. I actually tried to do that in the Bargie sequence and it's somewhat compelling. But the rest of the front row changed as well....so the vast improvement with Strauss can't be definitively proved.
You on the other hand have provided nothing and predictably you are now grasping at what an ex Saffa is saying about Strauss....which is just an assertion. You can't even prove this assertion in the Force's match against the Bools where they lost 2 of their 7 scrums.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Jun 2016, 15:29
#29
23 Jun 2016, 15:29#29
 NO - In  cases where Strauss enter teams the scrumming was poor.  It happened in the Cheetahs and Bulls cases - as well as in the Springboks.   The Stormers a few years ago the Stormers had by some distance the Strongest scrum in Super 15 - until they changed the hooker and the scrumming went backwards - even though the props remained the same.   Go through all provinces and you will find the same.  Replace Strauss with Marx or Van der Merwe and their prop situation will get to the top immediately.  By the way is Miller also jealous of Strauss?????     
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
23 Jun 2016, 15:41
#30
23 Jun 2016, 15:41#30
 Nope....the Bools scrum has been poor for years. That's just another assertion. Strauss has started for the Boks 20 times before this year...a reserve another 34 times. And not once has there been any evidence that the scrum has improved when he is off the park.
But you are welcome to try to show this....you have 56 data points to work with.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Jun 2016, 15:52
#31
23 Jun 2016, 15:52#31
 Mozart - quite fra nkly you are welcome to your ideas - sometimes twisted because of prejudice - and so am I.  Strauss will not last as the starting hooker of the Springboks - Proudfoot will not allow it - and then we will see what happens.   
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
23 Jun 2016, 16:35
#32
23 Jun 2016, 16:35#32
 It' s the first I heard of Strauss being a poor scrummager. Fact is Strauss has been called world class.
If they want to improve the Bok scrum look no further than the Lions coaching staff. The Lions do not have a huge pack but they know their business.
In my opinion Redlinghuys is a better scrummager than young  Malherbe.


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Jun 2016, 20:03
#33
23 Jun 2016, 20:03#33
Beeno - Just answer me one question - was the Stormers scrumming not weakened when Liebenberg got injured - the props were the same - yet the scrumming got weaker.  Then look at the scrumming of the Springboks in the last two tests - the props used to be strong in the past - yet the scrumming was weakened.   Why?  
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
23 Jun 2016, 20:19
#34
23 Jun 2016, 20:19#34
 To me, it's funny that no-one,  especially Moz, commented on Strauss's ability.  He tends to l ose the ball in contact, and his cool...too. And he never impressed me as a leader. Captain and starting 2 by default I say.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
23 Jun 2016, 21:43
#35
23 Jun 2016, 21:43#35
At one stage both Strauss and Bismarck were excellent....leaving out either one was difficult. Since then they have lost some form. Strauss is still good on the deck, but not the strong runner he was. 
However his scrumming and lineout throwing have always been and remain excellent....this is all an attempt to deflect from Malherbe's poor scrumming against McGrath.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Jun 2016, 22:20
#36
23 Jun 2016, 22:20#36
 Line out throwing excellent - when last did you have an eye test?   You are so stuck on criticizing all tightheads - bar your "national Treasure" that you cannot look objectively at anything.  Pity we have such a debate with such a totally close mind. 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
24 Jun 2016, 01:00
#37
24 Jun 2016, 01:00#37
When last did I  'have an eye exam'. More concerning, when last did you have a mammogram?
MO
MonsterBokClub Pro442 posts
24 Jun 2016, 04:12
#38
24 Jun 2016, 04:12#38
Look fella's,There was a time that I preferred Strauss to Bissie and I for one predicted he would be Captain as he is now. That prediction was made entirely with the reasoning that I didn't think there was anyone else that could captain the team that was experienced enough within the Springbok systems and playing locally in RSA. 
His recent form has been nothing short of poor and his leadership skills similar, however just like the many other players on the field in the last 20min of the 2nd test seemed to improve dramatically. Strauss carried the ball with more intent and we saw snippets of the Strauss of old.
Maybe that was the catalyst for many of the players.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
24 Jun 2016, 14:14
#39
24 Jun 2016, 14:14#39
 No doubt Strauss has slipped from his high standards of a few years back. He has been mired in a poor Bools team which was embarrassed by the Lions in May and carried that lack of confidence into tests. 
Can he become the old Strauss again, a player who was among the 5 best hookers on the planet? My guess is no, not because he is too old at 30, but because 'effort players' who run out of steam rarely get it back.

The one thing I have no concerns about is his scrumming.
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
24 Jun 2016, 15:48
#40
24 Jun 2016, 15:48#40
 Scrumming has never been an issue with him.
That's only an issue for the deluded.
It's the rest of his play that concerns me. His contribution to the tight loose has slipped. 
It seems his kiss ass tactics has paid off. I hear he may be chalked up as Bok capt permanently.
That means that Malcolm Marx won't see much game ... if any at all ... with the weedy Stormers hookers queuing up it's highly unlikely.
I would strongly suggest he pack his bags and go overseas.
There's no future here for him. 

   
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