Time for him to go - if he can't kick, he brings no value. Have to be clinical against AUS and NZ and he can't cut it. There have been signs all S14 that he hasn't been right - there is no reason to believe he will come right before the 4N's. Lambie is an option, but he I think he will exposed at flyhalf. Use Peter Grant who is in form and has good defense until Goosen can season.
I said that Jantjies will be brought into the team - but am very worried about that one. He has a spotty record in Super 15 - also look at the stats provided by Mozart, which indicate that he was useless in Super 15. If he cannot perform there - what would happen in international games?
I really want to add something more to the debate. I agree with oimatey on the issue - which could be resolved when Goosen comes back from injury. Maybe they should use Pollard to teach Morne how to kick at goal. I have never seen an 18 year old as mature a flyhalf than that one is.
It is true that in BOTH games, if Morne had done JOB #1 we might've sailed to victory. However, the Poms have exposed our defence badly suggesting that we have more to do than just dropping the flyhalf.
Yes!!! Morne Steyn must definitely be blamed for the scrum going backwards in the second half... And for the forwards not contesting for the ball at the rucks... You are 100% correct when you say he must be blamed for the fact that England was still in the game.... Just as you are right about Peter Grant's defence.... You know, like the fact that he is the seventh worst defender in the S15, with 25 missed tackles... Out of about 450 possible players...
Oimatey you are 100% right, Morne is bloody useless and the major liability in our side. He must go NOW
I completely agree with Apollo here. Stop laying the blame at Morne's feet for a poor bench selection, shocking 2nd half scrum and the team simply turning off.
Was his kicking awful? YES... Should they have changed kickers? HELL YES.
He is still a strong pivot and his running/tackling game is great. We have plenty of fantastic kickers in the Bok sqaud, so why kick one of SA's best pivots because of a poor boot? Simply pick another kicker.
Is he better then Jantijies and Lambie? I do believe that he is still the best pivot we have currently. Lambie will get his spot, I have no doubt about that. But, with Zan out he will play fullback to get the game time.
I am still not 100% on Peter Grant, but that is just me. Many people see potential here but, I beleive we should be focussed on Lambie.
i dont feel it was just morne's fault. the replacements let the cohesion of the very difficult to maintain. the opening half was amazing. with some great attacking play. 14 + phases of rugby is wonderfull. after the replacements came on the game got disjointed and that effected everyone. morne generally plays worse if his pack goes back.
when olivier came on too the whole backline was static and lacked width and speed. frans steyn must not be moved from that position it seems because the replacements cant compete with him at all
Carpetmuncher
I agree with you that the replacements from the bench was part of the problem - but Morne did not perform insofar as goalkicking is concerned and he put the side under pressure with his kicking problems as mentioned elsewhere. He played better as a link player on Saturday - but you would find he is not popular on this site.
hahahaha no he is not popular anywhere. not even sure his own family likes him so much. old turnstyle has been very fortunate to be in the jumper than any other player i feel but his days are numbered.
i feel percy montgomery should have been retained as the kicking coach as well. he add his depth of experience to not only the kicking but to the backline as well
goosen, lambie, pollard is the future and one dimensional flyhalf like morne is the past
Let me be clear that I’m not a Steyn fan and that I have in the passed stated that he can’t hold on to the jersey forever. The real issue we have is that Meyer have now lost 5 players in last 2 games. Kirchner, Lambie, Alberts, Kruger and Oosthuizen. I thought Morne played better in both defence and attack in the last couple of games, but I also don’t think that Lambie nor Jantjies are the answer just yet. Lambie has been average this year as flyhalf, Janjties had one good game all season and that was against the sharks. Neither of the two youngsters has the best kicking game.
What Meyer has demonstrated really well is the fact that your players need to know what you expect from them. They can be an average player but if they do the job you ask of them, then the team will benefit. I’m slowly warming to the concept and one only needs to look back at Kitch Christies team who predominately consisted out of Lions players. He deliberately left out Tiaan Strauss because he felt that he and Pienaar would clash as they were both very strong leaders. Kitch took the players he knew and in the end he had a 14 match un-defeated winning streak which includes the 95 world cup.
At the end of the day you don’t look back and say that the Boks with 7 stormers, 3 sharks, 3 bulls and 2 cheetahs won the game but that the boks won and that is all that will be remembered.
Obviously I would like to see the best Flyhalf in SA play but at the same time, if Meyer believes he needs players that knows his style and delivery the results then I don’t mind.
Streyn is a definite for the team this weekend - but how long he would last as Springbok flyhalf is an entirely differenc question
old turnstile steyn offers something for now....but long term like in the next year or 2 i cant think he will be considered for the first no 10 in the country sorry to say.
Seeing as though everyone here is anti-Morne, I'll point out some positives. 1) He did not just kick the ball away all the time, he actually held onto to it and tried to bring the backline into the game. He even took it into contact on a few occasions when there was nothing on. 2) His defence was good if anything, in both tests. I reckon the poms targetted him as a weakness, but I feel he held his ground well for both games.
Also, we don't really have someone who can replace him. Lambie is too inconsistant, and the jury is definately still out on weather he can cut it as an all out no.10. Jantjies is too inconsistent, Grant, well, nearly there, but not good enough, and also getting on a bit. We really just lack options. Goosen is the future, no doubt about that, but for now. Steyn is the best of the rest. Also, 2 bad kicking performences doesn't make you a bad kicker.
Noble effort to bring balance to this argument Bluebok.
i do think however that we have all seen enough of Goosen to know that we can have better, we are just in complacent mode now as there is no one else. Morne if he wants the Nr 10 will have to stand up and deliver while he has it. Otherwise he will lose it and i think he knows it.
if he wanted to get his backline moving he needed to attack the ball way more. deep static passing. standing to deep. and his backline was way to bunched in the middle to effect and decent running effort. no off the ball running options so in my book that is a huge fail.
We have some promising number 10’s in the country but none of them are setting the world alight. I really like Goosen and if he can apply some brain cells to his physical game then he will have a long career to look forward to. I just don’t want another Pretorius, where the guy has all the skills but are to often injured.
Just looking at our Flyhalf stocks I do think that we are in a better place than a couple of years ago, but then we need to compare our 10’s to Aus and New Zealand which means we are still a bit behind in this department.
Out of the three countries I rate the all of the tens as follows
1. Cruden
2. Carter
3. Barnes (bean really impressive against Whales, showed both attacking and tactical skill)
4. Cooper
5. Goosen
6. Steyn
7. Bauden Barrit
8. Lambie
9. Grant
10. Beale (Showed some fantastic form when moved to 10)
Barnes ahead of Goosen, you have to be kidding.
The order is Carter, Cooper, Goosen, Cruden
Saf i see your order, however at this stage neither Carter nor Cooper has shown much this year. Carter is solid for him and that is about it. Cooper has been injured so no idea where he is at at this stage.
I also see no one rates Gareth Anscombe, or Elton Janitjies. they have both unfortunately been playing in losing sides, but talent wise there is nothing wrong with them.
its very early days for goosen so to compare him with the likes of carter and cooper is very premature at this stage of his career. he will be the best but needs to be blooded correctly. @kingcorn goosen is more mature and makes a lot more sound decisions on the field than what i have seen from any no 10 in south africa. he is freakish talent. all aspects of his game is perfect and i for one am very happy that he is playing at the cheetahs seeing that the cheetahs are the only team that really develops backline players because of there game pattern and coaching skills. the playing pattern and style is perfect there only problem is that they dont have the depth in players and money. this is a perfect enviroment to breed the younger backline players
barnes was decent but he lacks that x factor that sets the good players apart from the great
Yes Morne has scored a few points for the Boks....but just think of the all the points he has given up by:
missing penalities/conversions
poor up and under kicks
missing the touch line from a penality option
poor positional kicks
giving up ball possession with his play.
He has to go the moment Goosen is fit..
