24 Jun 2013, 15:08#1
I know he is not the most popular player in South Africa, but I find it interesting how well he tackled and how well he got his backline away against Samoa. Of course the anti-Morne clan will not have noticed how much he has improved these aspects of his game, but that is to be expected. His place kicking was not great, but I think that is more of a one off issue.
I just wonder how many people actually noticed how secure his channel has become?
24 Jun 2013, 16:32#4
Carpet, granted the opposition was not the best, but it is still not easy to stop a Samoan that is running at you. It is true what you say about him leaving, but who do we replace him with? Only Goosen in my opinion is better, on current form anyway.
Bok-B there were a few times in the game were I cringed because I thought Morne was about to get crushed by an oncoming Samoan ball carrier, but he held his ground and got up to tackle again.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
24 Jun 2013, 17:25#7
I have had no real problem with either of his passing or defence. Morne's problem is he caves in under pressure with regard to his kicking game and that was not hot at all on Saturday. That was the case with his strategic kicking - as well as his goalkicking. In the test last year he was very brittle insofar as those two aspects are concerned and it got worse the longer the tests went on - an exact replica of last year may be emerging.
The backline became really threatening when Le Roux was first receiver and ran at the line at speed - opening space up - that happened a number of times and in particular when Morne scored his try.
I am not sure whether he will not go completely problematic insofar as his goalkicking and strategic kicking is concerned - like happened last year. In essence that remains an issue that needs to be watched carefully in the remaining Super 15 games. If his success rate is less than 70% - it would be extremely dangerous to select him in the Champion Series against stronger opposition.
24 Jun 2013, 17:40#9
Mike, think back to our Lions series, Morne kicked a huge pressure kick to win us the tour. And he has done it a few times for the Boks and the Bulls. Hos kicking this year overall is above 70%. He had an off day this weekend, it happens. As I have said, who else would you have take Morne's place?
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
24 Jun 2013, 17:53#10
Bluebok
I am merely saying that what happened last year - could happen again. In the first test last year - his kicking game as fine - in the second test it dipped to the low 60% success rate. By the third test it dropped to 56% an in the subsequent tests it went down to an average 40% - being 20% in the Dunedin test.
On Saturday his success rate was 55,5% - not at all impressive enough. In the Super 15 last year in the last month his kicking game was extremely brittle and if that is repeated this year - it would be suicidal to keep him as the frontline flyhalf.
Lets hope it does not happen again - we certainly cannot afford a goal kick success rate below 70%
24 Jun 2013, 18:03#11
Mike I won't argue with you about last year. But I think he has come a long way since then. Look, he is definitely not the be all and end all, but as I have already asked, who would you replace him with?
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
24 Jun 2013, 18:16#13
If the kicking problems persist - in the absence of Goosen rather go with Lambie at flyhalf.
24 Jun 2013, 18:32#14
Lambie has done nothing to warrant a start at 10, not at the expense of Steyn anyway. But Mike, that is basically what you have already said. We have a bit of a gap at flyhalf at the moment, we have Steyn who seems to be moving on, Lambie, who just is not as special as everyone thought he was and the injured Goosen. I don't rate Jantjes as an option, his form is too erratic. Once Steyn moves to France, I think we are going to have a problem with depth at 10.
Carpet, Morne had one bad kicking game, the rest of the season he has been better than any other South African. That is not really saying much, because of a lack of competition, but ja, still our best.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
24 Jun 2013, 21:49#18
The lack of space and the contact are daunting at flyhalf. Lambie, who was my big pick for 2013 seems to be struggling with this. He bottled out of taking ball and man once on Saturday, noted by the commentators. Morne at this stage, as a flyhalf, not necessarily as a kicker....is clearly more effective. I tend to agree with Oom Maaik though, about the kicking. He is not the kicker of 2009 under pressure. Nerves are rarely cured.
-
If Goosen's body can't survive the punishment.....we are really back to square 1 at flyhalf.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
25 Jun 2013, 03:25#20
Mozart
The first time I really saw Morne Steyn in action was in the Under 21 WC in Argentina. This must have been in 2005 or 2006. South Africa played Argentina in the final and Morne Steyn was the flyhalf responsible for kicking at goal. Everyone thought SA should win rather easily - but the game was on a knife edge - BECAUSE MORNE MISSED EVERY KICK AT GOAL ASSIGNED TO HIM. In the end SA did win - but no thanks to Morne Steyn.
I believe pressure and nerves played a role then - as it is now.
25 Jun 2013, 10:19#22
Carpet, I still stand by what I said above about Steyn being the best current flyhalf in SA, but I agree with you regarding RWC 2015, we should be focusing our attention on who will be at their peak then, and I am quite sure it won't be Steyn. Goosen is a definite option, but Lambie will need to do plenty to convince me that he should be taken into consideration. This is my whole point, remove Lambie from the equation and who else is there? There are probably some young players that'll emerge in the next year and a half, but at the moment, we lack depth at flyhalf.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
25 Jun 2013, 18:11#25
Ceradyne
If you want to - you can talk crap - you know. I did what I did to illustrate that early on in his career Steyn was a nervous wreck when he kicked at goal - same as he was last year. In the last Super 15 game - there were some indication of his nervousness and I had the audacity to raise it here - which caused a storm of comments - but he started the test series off well - but the signs were back in the second test - and he missed a kick virtually straight out in front of the posts. Then followed the 55% success rate on Saturday.
If you are not prepared to accept that nervous tension influence Morne's goal kicking - you must be kidding yourself.
I said elsewhere that I have no problem with Steyn's performance - both in defence and attack - and went on to say that we must watch o0ut what happens in the remainder of the Super15 games - and also in the first two tests - if the success rate is low - there is no way he should be retained as goal kicking flyhalf. We cannot afford the defeats of last year caused by goal kicking deficiency.
Now about your harping about Goosen not performing last year - he had about 3 hours playing time in total and you condemn him as having proved nothing at test level. He really showed some top capacity when he came on in the Dunedin test - something a hell of a lot more than Morne did in all the tests he played in and he was very good in the Pretoria test. Playing with an injury in the Soweto test and being specifically targeted by the AB's because they themselves think he has better playing capacity than Morne - meant that he was average in the short while he was on the field in the Soweto test.
Last year Morne was below par in goal kicking - as well as all other components of flyhalf play - his strategic kicking for example was a joke in bad taste and only represented handing over possession to opposing teams.. His kicking was so bad - it was no surprise that he was booted out of the team by Meyer - who nearly cried when he was forced by a continuous poor display when he announced the team and spoke about Morne during the interview.
I have never rated Jantjies and agree that Lambie was barely average this year in a team that consistently under-performed - but I would rather have Lambie as an accurate goal kicker in the team than an unreliable Morne Steyn.
