Morne WILL be Springbok flyhalf!

Many of you are already rolling your eyes at the subject line, but anyone with even a little grey matter will admit that it is going to happen. I think it is fair to say that Hougard is the best scrummy in the country, and probably the world too, so there is no debate at all that he will be the Springbok 9. And who does he partner at Super Rugby level? Morne Steyn. Now here is my logic on this one, there is basically no time for the Springbok camp to prepare for the 3 England tests, so why would the coach break up an established partnership that, like it or not, is effective? We can all carry on about Grant and Lambie, and dream about a future with Goosen, but at this point in time, it is going to be Steyn that runs out in the number 10 jumper. Jantjies will not be an option because of a below par season. This is not necessarily his fault, but probably that of the rubbish Lions team around him. The back-up 10 for the tour will undoubtably be Lambie. I reckon Grant would be more suitable, but I can't shake the view that the coaching team are building for the future and that they already view Grant as being too old to genuinely blood as the future. Yes I know he has a little test experience, but that won't change their view on him. Just for the record, Steyn is probably not the best no.10 in the country, but he has had good success at test level, and against an English team that play a forward orientated "Kicking" game, an accurate Springbok goal kicker, will probably be a match winner given our style of play.

So Morne it will be with Lambie on the bench.

Blue Mostly i don't think anyone disagrees on that, the question is just who will be flyhalf cover on the bench. even with Goosen there we were expecting more to be the flyhalf, he is the incumbent, and hasn't really done anything to lose his place.

Goosen will be out injured from what I understand, so, as much I would love to see him at 10 for the Boks, it isn't going to happen with this tour. Back-up will be Lambie.

Even if Goosen was not injured I doubt he would have played against the English anyway. he was in the baby bok squad for the JWC. He would only have started playing a role in the Championship. So Morne was going to be Nr 1 from the beggining the questiuon now is just who will be on the bench. There are a few names in the hat, of which Lambie is the frontrunner for sure, but he might play fullback as he is the current incumbent there. So that leaves it open for either Jantjies or a in form Peter Grant maybe.

Ek, I think you may have hit the nail on the head with Lambie. I didn't even consider him at Fullback. Well spotted! That would leave space for Grant and probably Kirchner on the bench. I strongly believe that Lambie is a better at 15 than at 10.

Also you might be right. Heynecke might decide to select guys in position. Which means Lambie will be a great prospect for the bench as he can play fullback, Flyhalf and centre. At this stage we can only speculate, however about one thing we can be close to sure, Johan Goosen will not be there.

Yes Meyer will select Morne sadly and Lambie wont be on the bench, he will start at 15 and be the back-up 10. We will struggle against England with Meyers conservative selections and he will eventually wake up to the bright young talent we have at our disposal and the likes of Morne, Jean and Matfield will be history

Jean at 30 and possibly due to his inherent pace (Started as a Bok wing and scored a lot of tries in that position) has another 2 years of international rugby. In that time he can pass on his vast fund of knwledge to the youngeters and allow guys like Taute to grow into the position thereby achieving a seemless handover and ensuring we win our matches.

Why ou daveou can just give Jean credit as being the best Bok back at the WC (apart fom Frans Steyn) is a great shame and  does him little credit. Further, one does very much hope daveou would stop bleating on about the great Jean de Villiers being slow and too old etc  when everything suggests he is neither. 

matfield has to be history - that idea of him returning is thankfully dead it seems. Dave  thinks Juandre is too light to play as an international lock at 110 kg but matfield at 107 kg was fine and in fact a great lock!! Hhahahahahahaha go figure and enjoy trying to sqaure the circle!!

Patience Dave patience we are evolving. Or so I hope.

Jean is 31 and past it end of

I have first seen Morne Steyn playing junior rugby in Argentina.   He was the flyhalf and we were playing Argentina.   Under pressure he folded and missed every conversion and every penalty kick - we nearly lost the game.

Since then I have followed Morne game by game.   He initially were successful in  virtually every pemalty and try conversion - but at times reverted back to the kicking debacle of Argentina years ago.    Can you remember the game against the Blues lost by the famous Pink Bulls - how many conversions did he miss.

The opposition has figured Morne out well in advance - they run at him in attack - because they believe he is vulnerable in defence on international level.

I would never rate Morne as a great flyhalf.   I do not have the stats available - but I belie ve his try scoring ratio is below par

Mike I won't disagree with you as I cannot recall the points of your argument. However i need to make one thing clear about Morne, Innitially when he played for Free State schools he used to be a 12. A running 12 that could pass wrongfooted. Now that is something that you cannot teach. His great friend and Flyhalf from the Free State schools side, Ruan Peinaar, became his biggets opposition for the 10 jersey he played Flyhalf for Grey bloem while Morne Played for I think Jim Fouche but i can be mistaken at 12.

Anycase, I digress, The point I am trying to make is that the wonderfull talent that Morne was as a kid in the 12 jersey at Craven Week is nearly nowhere, These days he is only seen as a kicking 10, wher his natural playing style was never that. If it was coached out of him, I do not know. Maybe he still has it maybe he doesn't, But i will not believe that you can coach something like that out of a kid.

Well how interesting the point was it is probably irrelevant as Goosen is by far the best candidate and will take that jersey from him in the next 2 years injuries permitting. But just think maybe, just possibly that kid can come back.

 Yes, we all know that Meyer will be selecting mostly bulls players and that Steyn will be there at 10. What I would like to to see is players I believe can win games for us now and in the feature. Its actually a hit and miss with morne, yes he is a good kicker, but the amount tries or points he concedes in his channel nullify all the points he scores with the boot, and that is if he can get enough points.

Look at how Kurtley Beale exploited his channel. All the opposition will have to do is not to concede any penalties in their own half and they would be fine. Not much threat at the back, Especially if you have a flyhalf that sits so deep in the pocket and that loves kicking the ball back to you.

Again Kingcorn as i tried to point out with my point on Morne as a kid. How much of what he does and where he does it these days is on order from management etc. As that is not his traditional game. Defensively however If he just stays in the structure and system he should be able to defend his channel.

I Hope its Patrick Lambie who plays flyhalf, i met him once in Ballito. He really is a nice guy. Very muscular !

Really Rocket Girl - I imagine Lambie is a pleasure to look at by the Girls - he was in front of me in a bank queue and all the girls around nearly fainted OOH-ing and AAh-ing, but hat really is not all that is required froma rugby player --  HAHA!

I must admit from a rugby perspective - Lambie is ten times the flyhalf Steyn is - but Steyn is bound to be selected by Meyer as he is a Blue Bull and Meyer is bound to select his erstwhile cronies.   Merit wise I think the twpo best flyhalfs in SA is Lambie and Goosen - but th latter is injured so he will have to wait a while to get selected.  

I think Bluebok is wrong - Lambie will be selected at 15 - but that may also be wrong since the dummy from th Blue Bulls could be in as well.

Anyway - nice to have a girl around. 

Yeah, there is no question that HM will select Morne at first 5. He is the sensible, pragmatic choice considering SA's traditional skop en jag, 10 man game which has become increasingly reliant on penalty conversions (and occasional drop goals) to secure the win.  Sure,  Morne can sometimes have an off day,  but generally his goal kicking is deadly accurate. He still remains unrivalled as the worlds best goal kicker.  It wasnt too long ago when Morne singlehandedly sunk the AB's in PE with an almost flawless kicking display? As long as SA persevere with their forward dominated, penalty dependant game there will always be a spot for Morne.

Welcom back Nuke, where have you been? I've missed your insightfull, even if one-eyed comments. Clevermike, Lambie is not the best no.10 in the country...even with Goosen out injured. I just don't rate him as a 10. As a 15 though, different kettle of fish. He has really impressed me at the back. As for Morne being absolutely rubbish...seriously, he may not be the most exciting no.10 in the world, but he is still a good player. He has his weaknesses, as all players do. Also, and this is aimed at you too Nuke, the Bulls have been scoring a lot of tries this year and if Morne was just kicking the ball away every time he touched it, then it must be divine intervention passing the ball to the backline, and really, if the do Bulls have a divine presence, then we should not fight it! Seriously, in the Bulls case, the ball is getting to the backs, and it is not only Hougard that is passing it to them. So Morne's distribution can't be all bad!

@Bluebok. that is the exact argument that has come up through this whole thread.

Why, if Morne is such a bad player with ball in hand do the bulls score so many tries from backline play?

Your answer would be quite obvious, The fact that Morne is percieved as bad with the ball in hand is a falacy, overshadowed by the perseption that he is a Kicking Flyhalf alone.

Agree 100%.

 Agreed that Morne will be the #10 but he has real competion come at him in the form of Goosen, Grant  and one or two others.

I think he will be pushed to make the Springbok starting 15 in 2013.

Bluebok - If Lambie is not the best flyhalf with Goosen out - who is?   You do not rate him to use your oiwn words.   Why such strong feelings about a top class player that was the key to the Sharks successes this year.   Lambie is a better defender than Steyn ever was and he breaks lines regularly and score about ten times the number of tries scored by Steyn.   If that counts for nothing - what counts then?  

Let me put it this way - even after concussion last week - Lambie made a break few others would have achieved.    He has one thing few of our players have - namely "ball sense".    When I said I do think that Steyn is a very average flyhalf - the latest bit of hogwash mentioned was that whilst the Bulls scored many tries in Super 15 - Steyn must be a good flyhalf and link player.   How many tries came from standard back line moves in which Steyn has had a hand through either passing or accurate kicking - that is the question rather  than how many tries were scored. 

Now lets get to Stats on tries scored.   The Bulls scored 36 tries in total - 23 by backline players and 13 by forwards.   Now lets trace the 23 and find out how many Steyn had a hand in.   Of the 23 - 3 was scored by Hougaard without any passing of the ball to Steyn.   15 other tries were from broken play - where balls did not reach the trie-scorer through handling of the ball by Steyn.    In other words in the case of 5 of the 35 tries scored - Steyn had a hand in getting them scored.    Not the best of stats to justify selection - is it?