A slightly different topic, but worth exploring. A couple of examples are;
Danie Russouw
Heinrich Brussouw
Wikus Van Heerden
All three men were hard working, tough as nails players, but for me the least appreciated was Wikus Van Heerden. He hardly ever made a mistake, worked as hard as any Springbok ever, and was highly effective at turnovers, yet he hovered just below the surface his whole career.
That's a very good list you have there. Brussow was the best 6 we fielded in my time. He totally dominated the 2009 TNs and made McCaw look average or worse in every encounter against him throughout his career. That tournament was said to have been dominated too much by kicking and too defensive. That wasn't quite true; Brussow was so dominant that teams had no choice but to kill the ball, but that meant Morne would have a shot at goal. It made it hard to fight for field position, which New Zealand paid dearly for with their bold runs from deep, which lead to turnovers and penalties in the wrong parts of the field. Brussow changed how New Zealand approached the game the following season. Quite the honour. He was the rightful IRB POTY of 2009. McCaw, the eventual winner, had one a half tests worth of credible rugby that season. Brussow was the kind of player that could keep the team in the game even when they were over-powered. We could think back to that epic performance against the British Lions when the Cheetahs ran them dangerously close; Brussow was the reason they were in that game. In like manner, on the 2009 EOYT, he kept the Boks those games. That French test was a real test of his ability, and he passed. Best Bok on the field. For some reason, he was never really fancied. He was very good around the field ball-in-hand. He was there to tee-up Fourie for that famous try in the corner in the second Lions test. So dangerous was he that Australia took him out off the ball in the 2011 WC. We dominated after his injury-enforced absence, but not quite the same way. He made a return in 2015's RC where he again dominated. Meyer paired Brussow with Louw (7), and they cleaned up on the deck. He was a very solid defender. Not the tallest though, and that was one criticism leveled against him. "We needed another lineout option" was the call. Or a bigger ball carrier. Brussow was freakishly strong on his feet.
If there were no Bakkies Botha, Danie would be the most people's unanimous choice at 4. He was an outstanding talent and a very humble man. Very versatile. Dallaglio stated that Danie was one of the hardest men he had ever faced, always speaking very highly of him. One of the best ever Bok locks, but was outstanding throughout the 2007 WC, even the warm-ups before that time. I still look fondly on that moment when he carried the entire England midfield on his back off a scrum for a try. It really got us going and asserted our dominance.
Wikus is one of the best leaders of South African rugby. He was actually excellent standing in for Schalk in 2007. We could have credibly continued on with him in the side and maintained our standards. A very hard-working player and outstanding talent. Definitely underrated. It's one of the great sins of South African rugby: Great talent being passed up when inferior specimens are praised to the heavens. Some players never really gel with the media, the commentators, or remain in provinces that aren't successful. At that time, he stuck it out with the Cats, who were very poor. Had he made a move to a better union, maybe things could have turned out differently.
Henry Honiball was indeed a great individualistic and unique player, very special in an effective way and cannot fit into the stereotype fly half role but that what made him so good and yes it's true that Sharks side under Teich it worked.
He was a favourite of mine. A great individual , tough as teak, hard working , reliable , and set high standards amongst his team mates. Used to drive all the way from his farm in Bergville to attend practices without complaints, never missing any.
Most people I know rated Honiball in their team but maybe selectors failed to recognise his value.
Juan de Jongh?
Juan de Jongh was the second best defensive 13 in South African rugby. So many of our 13s fail because they are selected for running, but most coaches funnel ball into dead end pods (often a 7 who cannot pass) or a dead end 12. So that running never manifests, outside of heavily scripted and telegraphed basic plays. So, they are exposed. Juan was an immense defender. How he managed to be successful with a turnstile inside him only G-d will know! A real credit to the man. Great attacker too. His omission was one of Meyer's biggest mistakes. A costly mistake. Juan was better than the likes of Fleck, Kriel etc.
Mapoe is another underrated player. I never liked the idea of him playing at 13, as he was for a time or most exciting prospect at wing, but he had actually come along nicely. One of our smartest back line players. Most underrated? Defintion not, but still very undervalued.
Dean Greyling lamping out McCaw is on par with Richard Bands knocking McCaw out of his own body as the most satisfying moment in Bok ru gby.
Juan de Jongh was hugely overrated by Coetzee - but was the most toothless 13 and the worst defending 13 in SA Super Rugby for at least four years. There was many cases where he ducked out of trying to tackle bigger players. In many matches he missed out on tackles - so much so that in the first matches he played in Super Rugby in 2014 was over 30%.
Coetzee had Huw Jones - who later played for Scotland at center - available at 13 and in the few matches he did play at 13 Jones showed what a 13 should really do on the field of play, De Jongh had pace - but had no step and his ball s kills was notoriously bad - his passing of the ball was atrociously poor.
Dean Greyling was the one who was carded and caused the Springboks major problems in 2012 in the Dunedin test, Satisfying for doing damage to his team shows again how totally moronic the AO idiot is.
"Satisfying for doing damage to his team shows again how totally moronic the AO idiot is.
Hook, line, sinker..
The Goosen who was run over from a lineout which created the inroads for a try. The Goosen who ran away from a ruck fringe and let Smith score an easy try. In a tied game, Goosen was the decisive factor in the loss. You have tried repeatedly to tie the first run over Goosen to Morné, and you defended the Goosen abandonment of his defensive assignment. Once more, you are what you hate.
I merely expressed satisfaction in seeing McCaw get punched in the face whilst wrestling our 9 illegally on the wrong side of the ruck (something the ref conveniently didn't pick up on). That, and McCaw being hit so hard by Bands (Bands ran right through him) he fell back like a tree trunk with his arms out. His bell was rung that day.
Good day, and thanks for the laugh! XD
No thanks - nothing as expected from 7 goal kicks missed by Morne in the Dunedin Test - after which the near to tearful Meyer dropped him from the team.
I get no satisfaction from an illegal tackle on a player as you apparently do. That os a fact and the real isues are always abused by moronic comment from you. .
No thanks - nothing as expected from 7 goal kicks missed by Morne in the Dunedin Test - after which the near to tearful Meyer dropped him from the team.
I get no satisfaction from an illegal tackle on a player as you apparently do. That os a fact and the real isues are always abused by moronic comment from you. .
No thanks - nothing as expected from 7 goal kicks missed by Morne in the Dunedin Test - after which the near to tearful Meyer dropped him from the team.
I get no satisfaction from an illegal tackle on a player as you apparently do. That os a fact and the real isues are always abused by moronic comment from you. .
No thanks - nothing as expected from 7 goal kicks missed by Morne in the Dunedin Test - after which the near to tearful Meyer dropped him from the team.
I get no satisfaction from an illegal tackle on a player as you apparently do. That os a fact and the real isues are always abused by moronic comment from you. .
Henry Honiball.???
who that knows anything at all about rugby said he was underrated?
he was brilliant and has been credited as one of our best 10's since readmission!
"Dean Greyling lamping out McCaw is on par with Richard Bands knocking McCaw out of his own body as the most satisfying moment in Bok rugby. "
LMAO!!!
Sadly not, that incident is on par with Pieter v Zyl tackling the ref...funny in a cynical dark kinda way, but a tragedy all the same....oh, I forgot about Johan le Roux having a chow down on Fitzie's ear!
We surely are descendants of Viking berserkers!
PS, HH is highly rated by most pundits...Legendary Lem...one pundit's negative opinion doesn't make him an underrated player.
World Cup 1999, South Africa vs New Zealand. Lem the legendary defender makes 6 tackles, misses 5. Only 20m in 10 runs (not much more than De Beer in the semi final loss). Interestingly, the same game that Fleck missed about 6 tackles. Two legends and all time greats against our greatest foe on the biggest stage and they both pulled a dead duck. Interesting.
What of those stats then Safesex? Where were they? How about Pieter Muller too, 9m in 7 runs against Australia, in a semi that went into extra time? Shocking. When the microscope comes out, all of your flaccid preconceptions are exposed for the inflated malformations of an aberrant mind that they are. Ende.
But here we are: Morne averaged 11.15 pts per test to Lem's 4.46. Who is the better contributor? 8 tries to 1 try. Morne wins on defence too. This is all too easy.
@Shezza: That's nonsense. Morne was a very accurate player. His only "weak" point was that he much less often ran it into traffic on his own. Morne did a lot of clean up work for others though. He was and is still the gold standard in cover defence from 10, show me better. I haven't seen another South Africa 10 work that hard off the ball. Morne was excellent.
The Boks beat the ABs at the 99 RWC.
Herr Draht, they beat them, but that does not explain away the 6 misses of Fleck and the 5 of Honiball. Not to mention such pedestrian attacking figures from the goat that was Lem. How do you account for these performances? Performances that were consistent throughout that season. Honiball's production ground to a halt after the 1997 season. He was a product of an older generation of players who fell behind as the game developed.
At least we got a giggle out of dumpy Dave.
Organgrinder's ratings of players are so absurd that he cannot be serious surely and just maybe he is just taking the mickey out of some posters.
Rating Morne, Kirchner, Greyling, De Jong among the greats is ridiculous enough but Morne the Gold Standard in Cover Defence takes the cake.. yeah hilarious,
Surely he is just being "otherwise," of anderste in Afrikaans...just another Gonzo humour.
Chabal, who rated Greyling among the greats? Who rated Kirchner among the greats? Who rated de Jongh among the greats? The trick is to read. If you can't read Chabal, then you end up with a bit of a red face. It really does make all the difference.
As per Morné? Yes, yes he is. Show me a more successful and productive South African 10. I double dare you. Cover defence? How about 6 key stops on cover defence against New Zealand, stopping three tries. Show me one example of better. I dare you.
Morne only when he had no other option would attack the gain line - that said he in 99,9% of all cases NOT ATTACK THE GAIN LINE,
Honiball was a one dimensional crashballer with a poor boot. He was very good defensively and probably would have been less underrated at 12 which was a closer fit with his skills. As a flyhalf he was bottom quartile.
Franco Smith was a very good playmaker at 12 with an excellent pass. Was more often an impact player, with a more physical player like Pieter Muller starting.
He could also play at 10, but was really good at 12.
Andre Esterhuizen is the most underrated South African rugby player right now. In fact, he has been for over two years now.
Now here we have the dolt. We have Morne Steyn praised as the best 10 - but who was dropped by Meyer once in 2012 and twice in 2014 and the question is why? The first time was caused by his total collapse on games and the fact that experts over the air called his put of hand kicking BS,
So what happened in tests as to defense? In the famous 2013 he missed 4 tackles out of 11 attempts - two of which let to tries by the AB's. He was viciously poor in defense ever since, In the Perth test of 2014 preceding his final sacking by Meyer he made 8 tackles and missed 7.
So how did Morne perform in the kicking out-of-hand game? Bloody hopeless as the NZ people said over the air, His kicks were never strategic and always poorly directed, He missed finding touch with penalty line kicks repeatedly in tests (7 of those in nine tests played) and he handed over possession time and time again.
Morne had another speciality. He had no idea when to kick and when to pass balls, He constantly stood too deep in the pocket and was totally ineffective as a result, Since he never attacked the gain line himself - defenders ignored him and went for potential recipients if his slow and poor passes or fell back to cover the inevitable kicks.
So how did experts rate him? Hansen said before the Johannesburg test in 2014 the opposition knew exactly what Morne would do and be capable of in given circumstances and countered it effectively. He said they did not know what will happen with Pollard at flyhalf, The end result was that the Springboks with Pollard at flyhalf win the game.
But that is not the end of what people think of him, Steyn went to Stade Francais and was the worse investment they ever made, They tried desperately to get rid of him and no other Cluns were prepared to take over his contract, He then became the second rated flyhalf and their regular bench flyhalf. Over time he became worse and finally in 2017 he was supposed to go to play for Brive and at that point the totally clueless Meyer took over as Stade Francais coach and called back Morne.
Meyer was a disaster as coach of Stade Francais - as he was as Springbok coach - ands in January 2020 - after he misspent totally the highest budget to contract players to play for the club and took Stade Francais to the bottom of Top 14 Log. Meyer was effectively fired as Stade Francais coach and the first players whose contract was cancelled in mid-season were Steyn and Alberts.
Back with the Bulls this year he was as hopeless a flyhalf as he always was and still could not pass balls and make strategic kicks after more than a decade in years of rugby. His test career ended effectively after the Perth test where he lost the game all by himself. He was in the WC squad in 2015 as 1 of the 8 unplayable players.
Same as Meyer being a totally deficient coach - Morne was a totally-defective flyhalf with only one positive - he was a reliable kicker at goal with an 80% success rate as a goal kicker. For the rest he was the poorest SA flyhalf ever playing for the Springboks neutralizing the whole Springbok backline and Idiot Speaker AO called him the best imaginable flyhalf he ever saw. LMAO. ,
Experts saw what Esterhuizen could provide and Erasmus found him wanting at center - but the high priest of rugby stupidity said he is the best 12 om SA at present, Any team selected by that idiot would lose against Japan - same as what happened to his hero coach in 2015 - so I believe in Erasmus' selections and not the totally idiotic dream world that AO lives in.
