Most underrated/ Most overrated Boks…by position.

15 Gio Aplon/Thinus Delport

14 Brent Russell/Odwa Ndungane

13 Marius Joubert/JJ Englebrecht

12 Adi Jacobs/ Dud Allende

11 Breyton Paulse/Mapimpi

10 Morne Steyn/ Patrick Lambie

11 Faf de Klerk/Reinach

1 The Beast/ Christo Bezuidenhout

2 Von Biljon/ James Dalton

3 BJ Botha/Marcel van der Merwe

4 Eben Etzebeth/ Quintin Davids

5 Victor Matfield/ Lomp

6 Schalk Burger/ Luke Watson

7 Joe van Niekerk/Dud Toit

8 Duane Vermeulen/ Teichman

…….. 

Just for understanding overrated means value vs perceived value. In a case like Etzebeth perceived value is high…but there are plenty of naysayers. In the case of a guy like Adi Jacobs who had the best centre stats in the 2008 TN, he wasn’t a great, but much more competent than he was depicted.

So under and over valued mean exactly that…no more,

Not true…in the 2008 TN Jacobs had the best stats, including defense….he tackled low and securely. He scored 7 tries in  34 tests which certainly trumps Dud’s 9 in 70 tests, granted he played 13 a lot.

He, Paulse, Aplon and a bunch of our smaller players were never given a fair shake. Kolbe changed all that and Arendse who is essentially an Aplon clone has been looked at objectively.

As for Paulse who you call overrated, he scored 26 tries in 62 tests and Jonah Lomu never scored one against him,

Actually he did:

Cape Town - A knee injury has saved Breyton Paulse from marking the monstrous wing Jonah Lomu when the Stormers take on the Hurricanes at Newlands on Friday.

Although Paulse will not be on the field, he has some valuable advice to the man who has to fill his boots on the wing, the 27-year old Gus Theron.

"Make a nuisance of yourself. Don't give him any space. He hates it when you are on his toes all the time," Paulse said.

Some people may question Paulse's competence in giving advice on how to stop a man that is 45kg heavier and 25cm taller than him, but these sceptics only have to consider the fact that Lomu has never scored a try when Paulse was his direct opponent.

That includes numerous Tests against the Springboks as well as three Super 12 matches. The last time Lomu crossed the Stormers' line was in 1998.

"I remember that match very well. I was on the bench when Lomu took Justin Swart, turned him upside down and planted him head-first into the ground. It was a terrifying sight," Paulse said.

Paulse also believes it is a good idea to put a couple of kicks behind Lomu. "He has never liked turning around, but you should not make the mistake of kicking onto Christian Cullen (fullback). He is extremely dangerous in broken play," he warned.

Lomu is regularly used as battering ram in the midfield and Paulse believes it to be of the utmost importance for the Stormers to keep their defensive lines intact.

"Lomu is especially used in the midfield where he can draw three or four defenders with ease. Tana Umaga's power is also used to the full. He is often used as a fourth loose forward."

A final bit of advice from Paulse is for the Stormers not to concentrate on Lomu too much because the legion of other good players in the Hurricanes backline would play havoc with their Super 12 chances if they are not watched closely.

………

But Paulse’s real trick which he cleverly didn’t reveal was to get between Lomu and the passer. He had the speed off the mark and the top end to make that work. Paulse is the only player I saw catch Cullinan from behind.

Aplon in 2010 thumped Nonu, Muliaina, So'oialo backwards without giving a millimeter. Aplon was the strongest of these smaller backs. The coloureds are especially strong, well above their weight bracket. However, Arendse is a D- talent. Kolbe is okay, not weak. Paulse was excellent. He was also smart.

I've got to laugh at Saffex's list.

1. Pretorius over Morné
2. Watson over Louw 
3. Mujati over BJ Botha
4. JL dP over Mostert
5. Nkosi over Paulse

Mozart

This must be close to 20 000 items you wrote about De Allende and Du Toit.    Have you not any other rugby issues to discuss?    O yes - there is also BS spreading by you about Erasmus and De Kock to add that would mean another 5 thousand nonsense you prate about.   I looked at that list and the underrated players did not even play in the position you claim they did.          

I must agree with Dave though - throughout his career Jacobs had serious defense problems and was indeed a revolving door.                  

Have you not any other rugby issues to discuss?  

How about Morné, Frans, Meyer, 2015... 

Nope this has become Clever’s persistent bleat. My response is a version of Gordon Gekko’s immortal quote in Wall Street 2: ‘stop lying about me and I’ll stop telling the truth about you’.

In short, the moment the Toifosis and the Allendistas stop making up imaginary things these two players do and see them objectively, my job is done,

That’s like comparing Danie Gerber with Adi Jacobs

Nah, more like Danie Gerber to JJ Engelbrecht 

Man, what flub you are Saffex. Pretorius over Morné, Watson over Schalk and Louw, Nkosi over Paulse, JJ over Gerber... I think you must be winding us up, it simply can't be true that you believe what you are saying! 

"Paulse is the only player I saw catch Cullinan from behind."

I saw Clive Rice catch Cullinan from behind once. It was at the Wanderers and Rice caught up with Cullinan to tell him to enjoy his walk back to the pavilion.

It's very easy to crack to crack the loose trio if performance is taken into consideration. Kwotalisi is nothing more than insurance against external pressure, and Steph is just a sloppy yes man who consistently ranks around 27th amongst top flanks. Wiese, Dan d/P, Kwagga. That's our strongest combination. Drop loafer Lood with hands of stone for Mostert (assuming RG is not present and playing well) and we have a serious pack for the first time since 2013.

Lood isn't a strong man, he is a tall heavy man. He isn't very athletic, and has poor endurance. Against explosive athletes he is simply blown away. He is more often than not brushed aside, driven sideways, or driven forward by two teammates for a few centimeters. We must be the only team in world rugby who doesn't have a core of carriers who can hit the line without support driven them forward. How sad. 

There is some bull to this excrement, yes. That bull is none other than Erasmus. 

Erasmus is not a coach. He is Erasputin, a foul and lingering miasma infecting Bok rugby. Nienaber plays the part of the influenced and discardable able Romanov.

Eenoog is Koning!

No, he is not. 

Kitch had a very cushy ride. As Joost said on ESPN, Kitch was not a very good technical coach. He had a team that came together at the right time, all he had to do was keep them focused and motivated. Fitness helped a lot. That was one factor that Stransky claimed was the decisive factor. Mallett was good for two seasons only. Though, according to Michael, it was all the direct result of Carel. Jake is our best coach. Erasputin is somewhere near the middle-bottom. Jake didn't have the luxury of the worst Kiwi and Wallaby sides of all time! 

Wishful thinking. Erasmus could never succeed against the caliber of teams Jake faced. Even in such a mediocre era of test rugby, Erasputin still can't rise above his foes. Having to use every dirty trick in the book to get some kind of edge over better coaches. 

You're right, it's not even close. Erasputin is a manipulator and farce. Perhaps we should be calling Nienaber Eddie Jones, as that's essentially what he is to Erasputin. It's pretty funny that the nonsense thrown at Jake ends up being what Erasputin is. 

Jannie Duplessis was totally overrated. He could scrum, but apart from that was useless. A total liability on defence, he would actually block his own players from making tackles.

Ollie Leroux was a good prop. 

Wishful thinking. Erasmus could never succeed against the caliber of teams Jake faced. Even in such a mediocre era of test rugby, Erasputin still can't rise above his foes. Having to use every dirty trick in the book to get some kind of edge over better coaches. 

White never succeded against any caliber teams - fact is his team even lost 52-0 against the Aussies and 33-6 against the AB's.  He was the 2007 coach of the team that struggled against Tonga and wherever he went - after starting  off well enough initially - in the subsequent years he flopped as Springbok coach - same as what happened anywhere he coached.

If one categorize coaches from 1 to 10 I would put White in position 5 - with the following being above him:-

1   Erasmus

2    Christie

3    Du Plessis

4    Mallett 

5    White

6    McIntosh

7 - 10   De Villiers, Meyer, Coetzee, Viljoen, Straueli  *

*   Four of those - I may exclude De Villiers from that list.  

Another l'Grande Merde fable.

Kitch was not a good technical coach - what is a technical coach anyway?   Throughout his career White was a forward technical coach - but he failed as a backline coach, because he was clueless about backline play.   Meyer was a technical failure - so was Coetzee, De Villiers and Straueli.

Another important aspect of coaching that must always be considered in respect of coaching is team selection and the gaining of co-operation with players and the public.   That was and always will be important in successful coaching.   In the case of most coaches that went awry totally.   Both White and Meyer plus some of the coaches I refer to above were total disasters in that respect.            

The only good technical coaches we have are White and Meyer. It sounds like you want to argue against Joost. Go ahead and tell us how stupid he is...