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FORUM / RUGBY /  Mozart - aan honest question

Mozart - aan honest question

Started by clevermike24 REPLIES250 VIEWS· 14 Sept 2014, 22:32
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 Sept 2014, 22:32
#1
14 Sept 2014, 22:32#1

I know it is har to compare players - but I want to ask you about Jean de Villiers.   Have always been a big fan of his - but am a worried about aspcts of his present performances.


The question is - Do you honestly believe he is performing on the same level as he did last year?


I have gained the impression that his performances has declined since last year - both in attack and in defense.   This may be due to the fact that whilst De Villiers went through last year with virtually no injury problems - he had quite a lot of injuries - ranging from minor to  serious and this could have impacted on his performnances.  


What do you think? 

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
14 Sept 2014, 22:51
#2
14 Sept 2014, 22:51#2
 Jean has been poor for some time now. He no longer looks to attack space but instead chooses to take contact.
The number of tackles he is missing per test is becoming an issue. 
Players over the age of 30 are not the players of their youth and should not be selected unless there is no better youngster to select. In the case of Jean and co this is simply not the case.
MO
moolaaPro2,380 posts
14 Sept 2014, 23:59
#3
14 Sept 2014, 23:59#3
 I notice that JDV is now continually charging up ahead of the defensive line of the Boks.Doing this was instrumental in creating the gap for Barrett to score his brilliant try at Ellis Park last year.This tactic may come back to haunt JDV in the remaining tests if he over does it.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
15 Sept 2014, 00:12
#4
15 Sept 2014, 00:12#4
Yes he loves to rush out breaking the defensive line. It's effective if you snuff out an attack but creates havoc if you don't like the Barrett try. It's generally a 50/50 call and tends to be employed by those more experienced players in the name of experience.
Habana is another prone to the rush.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
15 Sept 2014, 00:48
#5
15 Sept 2014, 00:48#5
Honest answer....Jean is still the best centre in the country by a mile, but may be in his last year. The problem is Steppie, de Allende, Jordaan, JJ, Sadie etc are simply not international class centres. We have none...zero. We have wings, fly halves, fullbacks...but no centres and scrum halves. I know there will be howling in the night....but that's the honest truth.
Our best bet for the RWC is probably Frans and JP.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
15 Sept 2014, 01:23
#6
15 Sept 2014, 01:23#6
 What utter rubbish we have centres to burn. Jean is not even close to being our best centre. He'll even new boy Burger Odendaal of the Bulls is looking better than Jean.
Serfontein as Meyer has said had another good test and is better than Jean at the same age. At 12 add Frans, Esterhuizen, Frans Venter, Odendaal, Watermeyer and Mnisi as good options.
At 13 we have JJ, de Allende, Sithole, Hanekom, Howard, Jessie Kriel, Kobus v/Wyk, Mapoe and Taute
We have centres to burn. Serfontein and Frans are better than Jean these days and we need to look no further than classy de Allende at 13 along with JJ
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
15 Sept 2014, 01:41
#7
15 Sept 2014, 01:41#7
Well if one thinks JJ is an international centre, it would be easy to conclude all the others are as well. But as we know from the S15 Steppie and JJ were regularly outplayed by journeymen. So much for  your little lists.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
15 Sept 2014, 01:44
#8
15 Sept 2014, 01:44#8
Don't lie Serfontein and JJ were never outplayed once not even close.
Damn right JJ is an international 13 he proved that against NZ and we have not seen a performance that good from a Bok 13 since and that is a FACT


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
15 Sept 2014, 01:58
#9
15 Sept 2014, 01:58#9
Sure and HM dropped him just because he didn't like his personality. JJ made a pathetic tackle attempt on Barrett, a weak girlie tackle.....and he hasn't done a thing since.  
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
15 Sept 2014, 02:07
#10
15 Sept 2014, 02:07#10
Um we are talking HM here his selections are hardly the measure - the guy is clueless hence our recent results.
Bullshit.....Barrett scored because Jean rushed and failed to snuff the attack, breaking the defensive line in the process and exposing Morne and JJ. Morne being the inside defender was tasked with tackling Barrett but he made a pathetic high attempt leaving JJ to turn and try take him. JJ was the least to blame of the 3. But it was his brilliant performance with ball in hand that test that set the bench mark. We have not seen anything close from Fourie, JP, de Allende or Serfontein since and that is a FACT


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
15 Sept 2014, 02:32
#11
15 Sept 2014, 02:32#11
On the contrary...JJ was the only player who had a full shot at Barrett and he missed pathetically. That after he overran a try scoring opportunity....turned the ball over  at the half, and then missed Nonu on the build up to the Bok try.
There isn't one credible rugby voice calling for JJ to be brought back.  
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
15 Sept 2014, 03:36
#12
15 Sept 2014, 03:36#12
 Oh what utter rubbish Morne was the inside defender and had Barrett in his grasp but went high in a pathetic attempt much like his defensive stats in his last test. JJ was covering the outside channel and had to turn to try take Barrett once he realised Morne had fluffed yet another tackle. JJ was the least guilty of the 3.
Over ran a try opportunity what a bloody lie Morne passed the ball behind him after JJ ran a great line.
He beat Cruden beautifully after his fly half and captain passed him the ball obviously wanting to launch an attack for if they had not Morne would have kicked it out. JJ never got turned over Kolisi failed to secure the ball with Read smashing it back. 
Nonu stepping him lead to nothing so don't lie.
But his greatest moment was his sublime beating of Savea to put Willie into space with a great flat pass off his wrong side only for useless Morne to spill the pass off Willie going over the line.
And let's not forget JJ running straight through Smith in that test as well. Just ask kiwi Sas what he thought of JJ's performance that day. It's a marked difference to your childish prejudicial rubbish.
JJ was brilliant in that test,  best display by a Bok 13 since Gerber


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
15 Sept 2014, 03:44
#13
15 Sept 2014, 03:44#13
Waaaaaaaaaaaaahaha back to Savea again. Tell you what Dave I am going to let you go to bed as the only rugby fan on the planet that thinks JJ should be the Bok 13.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Sept 2014, 04:41
#14
15 Sept 2014, 04:41#14
 Mozart
You avoided the answer like a plague.   The question was clear and precise.  Do you honestly believe he is performing on the same level as he did last year?
I do not think that your answer is actually given to the question.   If the answer is no - then what is going on - another reputation selection?   
Your player assessments are normally rock bototm insofar as truth is concerned - so that is not an answer to the question.    
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
15 Sept 2014, 04:59
#15
15 Sept 2014, 04:59#15
My answer was crystal clear OOm, Jean has not reached last years form, but he remains the best option by a mile.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Sept 2014, 05:05
#16
15 Sept 2014, 05:05#16
 Based on what?
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
15 Sept 2014, 05:19
#17
15 Sept 2014, 05:19#17
Observation...no other SA centre has half his savvy.  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Sept 2014, 05:29
#18
15 Sept 2014, 05:29#18
 It is not about savvy - it is about performance,  which sadly is lacking in De Villiers at this stage.    He has had sub-par performance indicators in Super 15 this year and also in tests - both in attacking play and defense.   I was hoping that he would maintain the standards he set last year - but it just is not happening.   
I am a great admirer of De Villiers - and has always been - but is he still up to test standard?   If as you say this is his last year in rugby - then he has to be replaced before the WC next year.   Problem is - he is already 33 years of age and he is nor going to get better than he is at present.   
I would like to see him have a further go - by playing him and assessing his eprformance over 40 minutes and phase in a successor that way if he keeps on performing at present level.    
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
15 Sept 2014, 05:56
#19
15 Sept 2014, 05:56#19
The fact is he came into this years RC after a long lay off...his form was bound to be affected. And I said this "may" be his last international year. Time will tell, in the meantime he remains better than Steppie.  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Sept 2014, 06:30
#20
15 Sept 2014, 06:30#20
Mozarrt
It was not only his test form that worries me - it is also his Super 15 form that was not all that hot this year that was not on par with last year.   
However, as stated earlier he was soemwhat injury prone th is year and that could have affected his form.   However, at his age it is dangerous to put your eggs all in one basket.
Talking of injuries and misfortune in selection for the WC.   Jean was our first choice center in 2003 for the WC and was injured before the team's departure for Australia - he played 40 minutes in the 2007 WC - and lasted through the 2011 poor team  effort in New Zealand.   Will he last through another WC?  

 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
15 Sept 2014, 07:29
#21
15 Sept 2014, 07:29#21
Who knows, and we may have to make do with the likes of Serfontein at some point. And it's possible some of these youngsters may develop. Right now though they are a very disappointing bunch. Step tries hard, but compared with  our great centres like Jean or Joubert he has done so little on attack....I mean look at O Driscoll in that first Lions series as a youngster. Being young as a centre should make you more, not less dangerous on the run.
PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
15 Sept 2014, 09:47
#22
15 Sept 2014, 09:47#22
The Barrett try - 3 guilty parties.

First, Jean gets stepped after shooting up.



Next, Morne goes high and misses:



Third, JJ goes high and is shrugged off. Could a good low tackle here have stopped Barrett? Absolutely. JJ isn't stretched here, Barrett has the ball under his right arm so he can't hand him off, so JJ can have a full go at Barrett but goes too high . Jean started the rot, but both the guys coming in afterwards could have stopped him with a proper tackle. No excuses for any of these three, it was pathetic defending.


MO
moolaaPro2,380 posts
15 Sept 2014, 09:58
#23
15 Sept 2014, 09:58#23
 Compare Morne's and JJ's tackle efforts on Barrett to Barrett's tackle on Serfontein bursting through the line on Saturday! Well you can't really.....
PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
15 Sept 2014, 10:12
#24
15 Sept 2014, 10:12#24
Nope, you can't. None of these tackles were as difficult as the try saver Pollard had to make on a flying Savea on Saturday. To make excuses for any of the blokes above would betray the effort and skill you would expect from players wearing the Springbok jersey. It wasn't good enough.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Sept 2014, 11:12
#25
15 Sept 2014, 11:12#25
 Pakie
It was indeed shocking defending by all three players concerned.   In two other cases that day Morne's defense was shockingly poor - at least one other try was scored as a result.
I also blame all three players for that try being given away - but the problem is not last year - it is this year and the backline Mozart is suggesting - if selected by Meyer - is a shocker.  
Pollard is fine - but the centers is not.   De Villiers's defence this year was no good and neither was that of Pietersen at 13.   If we want to retain some sanity we would not put that  pairing together at center.   
Problem is Pietersen failed in defense when they tried him at center for the Sharks in 2012 and that was why he was replaced by Jordaan at 13 that year.   He was not better this year playing for the Springboks.   In the first Welsh test Cuthbert ran past him as if he was not there and scored a try.   In the second test he missed too many tackles and it landed us in trouble as well.          
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