Mozart are you going to stop your continued vicious attacks on Erasmus?

It is becoming clear as daylight that Erasmus record in three tests against the AB's are already better than Meyer's:-

Meyer  -   11 played  -  1 win, 10 losses

Erasmus  -  3 played -  1 win, 1 draw and 1 loss

There is other norms also - Meyer selected players purely based on reputation = with total disregard to performance, while Erasmus selection is based entirely on performance with total disregard of reputation.   Some players from the past have been given opportunities to prove themselves and of they succeed they are retained,  

Although both Vermeulen and Louw have in the main being questionable as performers Erasmus has thus far retained them - but he studies their games and I doubt whether they would last much longer.  Steyn is a definite goner and will not make the WC squad,  

Be it as it may - AO and Pakie generally come up with the same ideas as you - but will you stop your personal and vicious attacks on Erasmus and accept that he is a better coach than Meyer ever was - influencing your minions to do the same.

No Mozart

You are totally wrong again - the springboks in 2018 tests scored more tries than they did in a similar number of tests in 2012.  Fact is the kicking game is not worse than it was under Meyer - it is in fact better since recipients now is mostly under pressure, while in the Meyer era it rarely happened and it was the basis of countless counter-attacks  by the opposing teams.  . 

There is a fundamental difference between the game played now  and the game played under Meyer - it is a much more varied game than it was under Meyer - hence it is more successful from what it used  to be what difference is there between the centers now and the centers that Meyer used?   De Villiers was the only center we had that in the period 2012 and 2014 as a value player.   Steyn was a flop at inside center.- the outside centers were all poor.  De Villiers" effectiveness ended with his injury at the end of 2014.  Of the center partners Meyer used - Steyn, De Jongh, Engelbrecht, Taute and Fourie were all sub-standard - the only exception was Serfontein - better than those already mentioned - but not much better than De Allende and Kriel.  There is no doubt that De Villiers was a class act but in the Meyer era he was already declining in effectiveness.   So what is your grouse about the present centers.- other than De Villiers we had nothing of real value under Meyer either.

The Meyer game plan - if there was in fact one - was totally predictable and easily countered , while  the Erasmus one is more varied and less predictable.  Meyer's team selection was - especially by 2015 was a total disaster resulting in SA losing all three RC tests.  

There is another thing where you are wrong.   After 2008 when there were major changes made to the laws of rugby the AB's started to implement those and was gradually followed  by most of the major NH teams - while by 2018 SA never implemented the changes under Meyer and  Coetzee.   It was inevitable that the NH teams would become more competitive, while SA started going downwards.    What is happening now is that SA is moving into implementing changes that Meyer and Coetzee never did - making the Springboks more competitive. In essence it means that even though  the AB's have not really became less effective - the other teams and since last year SA has become more competitive.

Moz

To be fair... there is a definite improvement in the Bok game. Even when we lose, we don't embarass ourselves.

We seem to have a more fluidity in our play.

There is more cohesiveness.

Our defense has been pretty epic this season so far.

A coach often plays a bigger role than just a technical coach.

I feel that Rassie has something that one is born with. Jake had it and Kitch had it....

Its a thing that cant be explained, only seen...

The best way to explain it is.... players buy in.

That happens when players all buy in to a coach's philosophy and style.

It isn't always the best technical coaches that succeed. But for a coach to succeed, he needs buy in.

You can just see how players react to situations and how they work together. That only comes if they "believe".

I realise that some people on here are "glass half empty" types of people... so they will always find an issue.... even when the Boks perform well....

But overall, there is a definite improvement.... despite Rassies "50% record".

Happy to debate this without any insults in opinion.

Meyer had 2 good seasons for the Boks. He started too conservative and finished too conservative. 

At the end of his reign, he would have been better playing Morne Steyn in the world cup, because it was that type of game plan.

2012 was terrible when he started with Bulls players. Injuries forced his hand, and some players took their chances. 2013 and 2014 were good, but by 2015 some players like Alberts were too long in the tooth. Schalk was instructed to not offload, and play at 10 for most of the tournament. 

Rassie is easily a better coach. However, we need a backline coach and Stick is not the answer.

are you saying that everything besides our defense has gotten worse?

sorry, just trying to understand what you mean by (minus)?

I think boks have really turned the corner.

I think they actually have belief now and the politics of colour could be fading away a little.

That was a good performance it really was a missed penalty in front that proved the difference.

Very noticeable kick chase defend tactic - AKA Jake White 2008 RWC... if this is what works for boks - go for it.

RWC and test tournament style of rugby the penalty kick and field position so important...

I like the renewed bok team - coach seems to have it under control - I do get the sense though that some of the bench for last 10-20 are there based on skin colour moreso than skill...?

Moz

I agree re JdV... but i try not comparing single players as it can often be misleading, as a good player does not equal a good team.

I partially agree re your HM sentiment. I agree that when HM started, we looked thunderous. But that really only lasted 1 season.  One would expect a coach to be more settled in their second season in charge.

With Rassie, he is unbeaten thus far (albeit only his second game) of season 2. But we are looking increasingly assured and we seem to have our heads in cohesion, so to speak.

Rassie is a shrewd tactician and has fairly unorthodox methodologies (remember the free state stadium lights??).

He has played our politicians well. They have kept off his back due to the way that he has kept BEE players in the mix. Most of whom really deserve to be there.

I dont recall your thoughts on JW, i'll need to look up some old posts, but Ras reminds me a lot of him in that he seems to have that "thing" that I mentioned above. The thing that I cant put in to words. But his aura and his nature will get the best out of players.

I think his total honesty with the players is also reaping rewards. Speaking to some ex Boks, it sounds like he does the tough things right. IE: He calls players to tell them about exclusions etc before the media releases... which didnt happen before.

As with any job... you need to know where you stand in your job.

My real reservations are around Mzwandile Wanky Stick (yes that is his real name). WHat street cred does he have? I'd much rather have a foreign coach, coaching our backline.

Mozart

Let me summarize - according to you everything got worse under Erasmus than it was under Meyer and the answer is clear   Total and utter BS  and the reason for the answer is clear.   Meyer was an extremely poor coach with a game plan that was totally predictable to counter,

You love the Meyer era because -

*  He had the kicking game you call traditional SA Rugby irrespective how poorly execution was and there really never was such a thing until discovered when the Bulls became the strongest team in SA ; and

*   he selected the duds you always supported and by 2015 the duds were totally useless leading to disaster in the RC - all three marches lost - and a loss against Japan.  

That typified the Meyer era.  Going backwards as time went on,  Nobody pressured  Meyer to  apply the expansive game plan and Meyer had no idea what such a game plan actually involves  anyway.   He made very clear statements indicating that he did not understand such a plan and the selection of players was made on the basis he clearly specified.   Both were going backwards in rugby development at the speed of greased lightning.   .